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Thread: Who wants to build a semi-scale all-wood micro hydro?

  1. #121
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    Thanks Jim! PM sent.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  2. #122
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    Thanks Jim!!

    Here all along, I thought I did the 1957 version. Actually, it was the 1958 version that only ran one race. This will be the subject of the upcoming 1/20 scale shovelnose Prototype I.
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  3. #123
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    Well, I've ordered some materials to cut four Atlas kits. The first run will include a strut, a rudder, a turn fin, and the materials to build the wire drive. You will need to supply your own prop stub shaft (an Octura 1/8" x 1/16" or the same from Jeff Wholt - http://www.rcraceboat.com/Storewiredrive.html), a drive dog, prop, and prop nut, and some 3/32" brass tubing. You will also need to supply a motor coupler to fit the particular motor you choose. Again, Jeff Wholt is the man to contact for one of those. If you use a motor with a 3mm shaft, I may be able to include a modified Aquacraft one from the now discontinued GP-1s.

    I don't have a quote for the laser-cutting so I'm searching the deep, dark crevices of my fertile mind to recall what the prior costs were. I'm thinking I could produce the kits for $130, which is a screaming deal considering it includes the strut/rudder/turn fin/wire drive.
    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 02-03-2019 at 06:02 PM.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  4. #124
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    Default Motor Selection

    We originally ran the MHZ and H&M Micro Shovelnose hulls on the 2620 Mystery 3000 motor spinning a Graupner S-29 prop (29mm x 1.6P) using 6 NiMh cells. This was enough power to occasionally blow the little hulls off the water, but remember: These hulls are smaller at slightly over 15" (about 1/24 scale). We ran the same power system in the MHZ Gecko, and again, it was almost to much power. In the heavier 15" BBY Micro Turbine Hydro, I used a 2620 Chinese 3850 Kv motor. This arrangement, spinning a Graupner S-31 was simply too much power, resulting in more air time than water time; but reducing the prop to an S-29 made a stupid fast, great handling boat. I have two of those same Chinese 2620 motors in my BBY Micro Scat Cat spinning de-tongued X430s and it hauls a$$. I have some 2822 TubroRix motors that I might try in one of these hulls as well (I don't recall the Kv). All the aforementioned motors have 2.3mm shafts.

    Based on these prior data, I have picked a number of motors to try. First of all, these boats are bigger, but not a whole lot heavier. I believe a motor with a similar Kv but more torque will be necessary; and as such have chosen the 28 series motors and with longer cans. Atlas Prototype I has a 3550 Kv 2822 motor installed and I will first test it with an Octura X431 (plastic), cut down to 28mm and de-tongued (1.55 effective pitch). I will incrementally push the prop sizes up to an X632, but that will most likely be overkill. I have other motors in that size and up to 3800 Kv, but I expect similar results from them. I do have a pair of 4000 Kv 2818 motors that might be interesting. With a higher Kv and a lower torque (shorter can), they might do well with an X427 (de-tongued of course )

    One of the members here has expressed interest in two of the first 4 kits produced. Since he will essentially be a "Beta Tester", I'll include motors with his kits with the caveat that he photo-document the build.
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    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 02-04-2019 at 12:36 AM.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  5. #125

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    /////
    Last edited by Norwest; 02-11-2019 at 08:34 AM.

  6. #126
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    Default Atlas Prototype Updates

    I'm getting REALLY close to being done. The hull is ready for the final coat of primer and wet sanding prior to the final color coat. The cowl has gone for another belt-sander ride and needs a bit more filling and sanding. The wing and fins are done and ready for sealing, filling, and priming.
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    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  7. #127
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    Default Atlas Kit Update

    I have everything necessary to make 4 Atlas Kits being shipped to me as of this writing. I have a quote for the laser-cutting. I have a victi....... er volunteer to build the first two production kits.

    I have the ability to make the kits virtually 100% complete, with motor, ESC, and all the hardware. You would just need supply pieces of brass/aluminum/styrene tubing, wood dowels, or whatever for the exhaust stacks, a receiver, a battery, the electrical connectors of your choice, and a propeller. Should be about $220 including shipping. That's less than just an ESC for a "BIG" boat.... Or, I could do it without the motor, ESC, coupler, stub shaft, drive dog, and prop nut for about $145 including shipping. Jeff Wholt can supply the stub shaft, drive dog, prop nut, and coupler to fit your choice of motor.

    The drawback? If there are more folks that want one than the two I'll have in stock (rather optimistic, I know... ), there could be a fairly long wait as a lot of the parts I need come on a slow boat from China.

    I need to test the motor/prop/ESC combo I have before anything happens though, so I can confirm assumptions and make recommendations.
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  8. #128
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    Default 1:20 Scale Shovelnose Update

    Parts for two prototypes are being laser cut as of this writing. This is a simpler hull with a lower parts count so cutting costs will be less. It is a slightly longer boat at almost 19", mainly due to the bow overhang ahead of the sponsons. This hull has the slightly pointed nose, which is why I use the term "shovelnose" in lieu of "roundnose".

    Assembly should be a snap, especially in light of the many lessons learned in developing the Atlas. Jim Stephens of Scale-3d.com is shipping a 3-D printed Allison engine for this kit, although I'll be building the hooded version of the '68 Short Circuit. I may carve out the underside of the balsa cowl and fit this engine in it, just to look uber-cool.

    Full build photos to follow after the Atlas is done.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  9. #129

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    /////
    Last edited by Norwest; 02-11-2019 at 08:37 AM. Reason: info is done

  10. #130
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    On the Atlas, the motor mount locks into position on the bulkhead; on the shovelnose, it gets its own bulkhead. The turn fin I'm using on the prototypes and including in the kits is this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Machine...72.m2749.l2649 I will start with the strut at a 4° angle with the prop 1/2" below the transom. The stuffing tube ends at the bottom of the hull and the 1/32 wire is the only thing below the hull. The front edge of the drive dog is 1-1/4"+ behind the transom.

    All of this is a no-brainer, since everything is pre-drilled for the included hardware and I'm providing nut plates to hold the nuts in position on the inside of the hull.
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    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 02-12-2019 at 10:59 PM. Reason: Add Photo
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  11. #131

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    While vintage hydros can't be made to be self righting with the traditional roll over, modern ones when fitted with with salt water intakes do, in a similar size I have seen a number of Mhz Miss Madisons that had roll over self righting.

    Tail sinking self righting is growing increasingly common here allowing self righting in platforms that have too much lateral stability, and while it is not often as fast or as reliable as rolling self righting, I think that it may be possible for that hull shape as long as the wing is pretty buoyant. It would take some testing with an empty hull and weights to see for sure though.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  12. #132

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    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Norwest; 02-11-2019 at 09:31 PM. Reason: read btween the lines, time cut the ties with MR Jet

  13. #133

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    Last edited by Norwest; 02-11-2019 at 08:38 AM. Reason: info is done

  14. #134

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    /////
    Last edited by Norwest; 02-12-2019 at 08:37 AM.

  15. #135

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    addressed title DR JET subject next I gave subject matter.

  16. #136

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    Time to move on
    Last edited by Norwest; 02-11-2019 at 09:32 PM. Reason: above

  17. #137

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    /////
    Last edited by Norwest; 02-12-2019 at 08:39 AM.

  18. #138
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    Default Kit Updates

    Some parts I have ordered for the Atlas are coming on a slow boat from China. Literally!

    I have some of the wood already, I should have the rest soon.

    I may be able to put a couple more Atlas kits together with less lag time. I ordered additional materials.

    Laser-cutting on the shovelnose prototypes should be happening this weekend.
    Last edited by Dr. Jet; Yesterday at 04:38 PM.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  19. #139
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    Default Endless Opportunities

    Allison V-1710 and Rolls Royce Merlin in 1:20 scale.......
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  20. #140
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    Default Clarificaton

    The kit will include all materials necessary to build some "Semi-Scale" stacks. The cowl is made by stacking pieces of 1/4" balsa together and sanding to shape. In that stack is a 1/4" notch in the middle where a piece with the oval exhaust opening in the cowl will fit. Short pieces of 3/16" styrene tube will get glued into holes in a piece of 1/16" ply and the tube ends will be sanded to length and beveled, similar to the prototype. This will fit into the oval hole in the side of the cowl and Voilà!.... Semi-scale stacks.
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    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 02-12-2019 at 11:02 PM.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  21. #141
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    OK, I have everything to make the kits 100% complete on order, down to stainless steel socket-head wood screws for the servo (the Phillips screws that come with the servo are at an awkward angle and somewhat difficult to tighten fully). I have some hard plastic 27x40 props I'll be including although a balanced and sharpened Octura prop should give better results. Still haven't had cooperating weather for testing and more rain is predicted.

    Now, it's just a waiting game for everything to arrive. The primer on the prototype is hardening and I'll be starting the sanding and painting soon.
    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 02-13-2019 at 12:42 PM.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  22. #142
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    All the wood has arrived!

    I'll be heading to the laser guy next week......

    Here's the list of stuff I'm waiting on. Yeah, you could build it without these bits, but I want the kits 100% complete.

    SS Screws and washers for servos
    CF rods (for fins and wing)
    Turn fins
    Struts and rudders
    DVD Envelopes (the kits include a CD with photos)
    Motors (2 of 4)
    ESC (2 of 4)
    3/32” Brass tube
    Basswood strips
    Servo connectors

    UPDATE: I checked the tracking on the turn fin and strut/rudder and it could be up to 30 days for them to arrive.
    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 02-14-2019 at 08:44 PM.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  23. #143
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    Default How to make a small fortune in the model boat industry.....

    It’s easy; just start with a LARGE fortune…….

    Jeeze, this is a thankless task. What with the amazing lack of interest, the SLOW shipping of parts, and the occasional clueless, unmitigated FLAKE "customer"; I wonder why I subject myself this abuse.

    I’ve developed a really high-quality and 100% complete kit (just add your battery, connectors, receiver, paint and glue). Granted, it is wood parts that you have to glue together and paint, but it’s a top quality product, and the final results are impressive. The “I gotta have it now” generation wouldn’t understand the satisfaction of actually BUILDING something that is uber-cool, and far better than the disposable plastic Shinola that comes from China.

    I have countless hours of CAD work into getting everything perfect on this project. When I was designing large Public Works projects in CAD (that had to be perfect), I was being paid BIG money (a handsome 6-figure salary with benefits, thank you very much). I’m losing time and money BIG-TIME on this endeavor. I suppose it is a labor of love though.

    I have over a thousand dollars and countless hours of CAD work into the two prototypes and the first four kits. It would be nice if I only lost a couple hundred dollars in the process.

    Then there’s the shovelnose. The prototypes should be cheaper to build and I have less time in the drawings. I won’t make any kits of those until I have enough commitments to do a minimum run of 4.

    In the meantime, I’ll be the only guy on the planet with a stupid-fast 1:20 scale model of Chuck Thompson’s 1958 “Short Circuit”. I’ll have enough parts to do the 1958 “Hawaii Kai III” too.

    Where's Trent when you need him?.......
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  24. #144

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    Too bad to only good place to run around here is no longer allowing RC
    "Our society strives to avoid any possibility of offending anyone – except God.”
    Billy Graham

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimClark View Post
    Too bad the only good place to run around here is no longer allowing RC
    Any 50' x 100' pond will make an adequate race course for these little boats.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  26. #146
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    Default Puttin' on come color...

    So I'm at the point where I can add some color. I was concerned with the long, stick-on strip graphics, masking the appropriate areas off, and how everything would work. While not 100% perfect, the results were more than satisfactory. When all this has a chance to set up for a few days, I'll mask off the other side and the center section.

    My plan is to paint the cowl after I'm done with a few more details, then epoxy it to the hatch cover. I'll weight the hatch down while the epoxy is curing, which should give some additional longitudinal curvature to the hatch cover.
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  27. #147
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    While the paint is drying on the other sponson, I have time to think about the next project: the shovelnose. I'm looking forward to building it. With the lower parts count and simpler shape it will be quick to build. Painting and detailing should be far easier. Only 1 paint mask is required (for the U-99 number on the sponson) and I have CAD files to cut those on a vinyl cutting machine. All the remaining graphics are black lettering so I can easily print them on waterslide decal paper.

    I did discover one interesting thing from the information that Jim Clark was kind enough to provide: Unlike the Garry Finlay plans, the Short Circuit (plus the Hawaii Kai III and other hulls of that period) had a triangular-shaped air dam under the nose. I may add that to this upcoming build to help reduce the possibilities of blow-overs.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  28. #148
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    Default Makin' Progress

    Here's where I'm at before the wine brought everything to a screeching halt. The wineglass does give some perspective on the size of this little guy though.
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  29. #149
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    More.....
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  30. #150
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    Well, I'm at a bit of an impasse right now. I need some additional graphics to finish each part before I can start the final clear coat process. (NOTE: I did fix the crooked "A" on the right fin before everything dried). I can't shoot the blue paint on the cowl until I have some additional graphics and the special part I ordered to make the windscreen (you're gonna like this one and I'll include it in the kits).
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

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