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Thread: Who wants to build a semi-scale all-wood micro hydro?

  1. #151
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    Default Kit Updates

    All the wood for the Atlas kits in the laser guy's possession. I have motors, servos, ESCs, props, tubes, wires, and rods, for all the Atlas kits. I still need a couple of propshaft, drive dog, and propnut sets for two of the kits and they should be here shortly. The big sticking point is the hardware: The strut, rudder and turn fin. They're somewhere on a slow-moving container ship coming from China... It probably just passed Hawaii
    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 02-20-2019 at 05:10 PM.
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  2. #152
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    I've been re-writing the instructions for the Atlas. Now there's a project...... Spelling, punctuation. syntax, verb tense, and heaven forbid, a dangling participle..... On top of that, I have to explain in writing what my fingers are doing in putting this thing together. It's kinda like Carlos Santana explaining in writing what his fingers are doing whilst playing Samba Pa Ti...... How do you put that into words?

    It's hard to not feel like a dinosaur......
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  3. #153
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    Default What’s Next for the Evil Doctor?

    Continually updating this one post until the cows come home?? Yes, rather than make new posts, I've just been revising this one until a new one is warranted...

    I’m somewhat disappointed in the reception the mini hydros and mini cats have received, but it's not unexpected; minis and mircos occupy a VERY small niche in the hobby, and boats are a VERY small niche in the RC Universe. The designs I've developed are well thought out and will produce excellent results with skilled building. No, they're not for the novice builder, but most anyone with a modicum of experience can build a masterpiece. Everybody likes to look at them, but no one really wants to build one. Is everybody really that hung up on bigger, faster, and meeting some class specification? What happened to “Fun”?

    The Atlas Prototype II is nearly done, it just needs the remainder of the graphics and final assembly (Hurry up and wait...). The four kits I created only need the turn fins to be complete (Hurry up and wait....). I'll let the folks here know before I list them on eBay in case someone actually wants to build one. The 1:20 Short Circuit and Hawaii Kai III prototypes are in the hands of Mike the Laser Guy #2, but he's been dragging his feet for weeks now (Hurry up and wait.... ). The shovelnose builds should progress rapidly once the parts are cut and in hand. I have the ability to make kits out of these as well, but based on the interest in the Atlas kits, I think I’ll just build the two of them for myself and call it good.

    When the SC and HKIII are done, I’ll finish the Atlas Prototype I (currently barely sealed in white primer) with some form of whimsical scheme (Maybe the BatBoat with Batman in the cockpit and a laser-Batblaster behind him or maybe some geek-seeking missiles ). Then, I’ll go back and to finish the 16” Twin Cat Prototype II that was started earlier.

    I've been tinkering with a 450mm 'rigger based on the KEPs design with the design concept of maximum weight reduction in mind, but that may never get past the preliminary AutoCAD sketches phase.

    I have enough early prototype laser-cut parts for the 16" cat and the Atlas hydro do do one of each. I believe these are the early prototype versions and will need some tweaking to make them work. Send me a PM if you want one of these.
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    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 03-03-2019 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Continually Updating This Post
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  4. #154

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    if you do the Short Circuit let me know

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    if you do the Short Circuit let me know
    If there's enough interest to do at least 4 kits, I will. Would you want it complete with motor, coupler, ESC, servo, strut, rudder, and turn fin? Would you want Short Circuit decals, or would you want to do different graphics? The kits include the mounting holes and nut plates for specific hardware. The big drawback on that (as you can see) is it takes a while to get all the parts no matter who orders them. I would include the 1/32" wire drive parts since 304 stainless steel tube in 1/16"x1/32" is not easy to find. I ream the stock Aquacraft GP-1 motor coupler to 1/16" to work with the drive. Alternatively, you can get Jeff Wholt to make one that will work.

    If I had verbal commitments on 4 shovelnoses, I would order parts that day.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  6. #156

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    what would the price be on a full kit

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    Probably about $220 including shipping.
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  8. #158

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    let me know i will take one

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    let me know i will take one
    Will do. Be patient though, I have quite a bit invested in the four Atlas kits, but I also have extra materials that can go into kitting the Short Circuit. I can put labels on some boxes and start filling them with what stuff I have on hand (basswood strips, ESCs, servos, wire drive parts, and ???).

    Box label (Note: The Atlas kits have similar labels):
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    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 03-07-2019 at 05:28 PM.
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  10. #160
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    Default Show Me Some Interest!

    Well boys and girls, there you have it! Some interest in the shovelnose kits..... As I said before, I have enough bits to start assembling a run of kits for the shovelnoses. If three others here chime in, I'll order the necessary parts that take a month or more to ship. I have all the plywood I need for a run of shovelnose kits, but not all the balsa. The balsa ships relatively quickly though. I'll need more motors, more this and more that, but I can do it fairly quickly once commitments are made.

    I want to build prototypes first, just to make certain everything is 100% right in my AutoCAD drawings (again, I am dependent on someone else to follow-through in a timely manner ), and to confirm everything fits as planned. I appreciate your patience, and I'm certain you will be pleased with the results.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  11. #161

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    Dr. Jet,
    Are all the Atlas Van Lines kits spoken for?
    Regards,
    Bob

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhorowitz View Post
    Dr. Jet,
    Are all the Atlas Van Lines kits spoken for?
    Regards,
    Bob
    Bob,

    None of them are spoken for at this time, and they will be ready to ship upon receipt of the turn fins. I do have one single turn fin on hand that was intended to go on the Short Circuit prototype. I could put that into one of the Atlas kits instead. Send me a PM if you want one.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  13. #163
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    OK, I've heard a couple of murmurs about the shovelnose kits, so I ordered parts to produce a run of them. I have the wood, but I don't want to send it to Jesse the Laser Guy #1 until I get the prototype parts from Mike the Laser Guy #2. Mike is a long time friend and I would prefer to use his services for the kits, but it has been well over a month since I sent him the preliminary drawings and I have no idea how much longer it will take for him to get started on a couple hour job. I did just speak with him and the answer is..... SOON!!
    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 03-07-2019 at 05:30 PM.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Jet View Post
    ..................................I've been tinkering with a 450mm 'rigger based on the KEPs design with the design concept of maximum weight reduction in mind, but that may never get past the preliminary AutoCAD sketches phase.............................
    Actually, it's progressed quite a bit and I have some fun ideas for light weight and easy building. Less wood means lower prices, so this may be worth the effort. I'm going to leave room for a BIG (relatively speaking) motor, but much of the fun with Santee Sport Scale Hydro was a inexpensive "spec" power system. I'm looking at little outrunners close to 5000Kv and under $20 to make a cheap little 2S rocket. I'm not really a 'rigger fan because they don't look like anything, but they do go like stink.

    The KEPS 'rigger tub was kinda boxy, so I'm looking at doing something a bit more sleek (and lose some wood = weight in the process).



    Just for the record, if I decide to do a 'rigger, it will get its own thread as it is NOT a semi-scale anything.
    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 03-05-2019 at 09:58 PM.
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  15. #165
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    Default News flash!

    The Atlas kits are ready. There are four of them. This may be your ONLY OPPORTUNITY to get one.
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  16. #166
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    Since there was some interest in the '50s Shovelnose kit (the Short Circuit), I've started to populate 4 boxes with labels and parts. Still waiting on Mike to cut the prototype parts.....
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  17. #167
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    Bill,
    What others are on the horizon for getting cut?
    "A quick temper will make a fool of you soon enough."
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Bruce Lee. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diegoboy View Post
    Bill,
    What others are on the horizon for getting cut?
    OK, here's what I have:

    #1 The Atlas. Kits are ready to ship.

    #2 The Short Circuit. Kits are being populated with parts, but I need to build a prototype first before any laser cutting. Complete kit with everything except receiver and battery.

    #3 The 16" Cat. Short kit with just the framework, no skins. I've built a single-motor prototype and have a twin-motor prototype under construction. I've changed the twin design to use built-in (fixed) stingers. I haven't written instructions or any supporting documentation. No real plans to issue a kit, but if there was interest, I will. I'll go back and revive the thread on that one.

    #4 I'm in the preliminary stages of drawing up a 442mm outrigger loosely based on the KEPS mini rigger with minimum weight as a primary goal. It will have a more "airfoil-shaped" tub with a really "low profile" (1/2" high) transom, 1/16 balsa sides with 1/64 ply skins on all four sides. The sponsons will be laser-hollowed balsa with 1/64 ply skins (sides only to save weight and complexity of building). The kit would include all the wood and carbon fiber bits plus a laser cut 0.050 aluminum turn fin blank and threaded aluminum inserts that go in the sponsons to mount the turn fin. The builder would have to sharpen and bend the turn fin. This hull can use either my 1/32 wire drive or 0.098" cable. I'm thinking the prototype will use the 1/32" wire drive and this rather small motor to save weight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCS-Model-K...8/302621329359. The hull will fit bigger motors like the 11-Series NeuMotors (might need some support), but I think the aforementioned little outrunner would make a fun "spec" class and keep weight to an absolute minimum. Fast, Cheap, and Out of Control. I'm also thinking of using this motor: https://www.ebay.com/itm/4000KV-Brus...0AAOSwbYZXcejx. It's lower on Kv and 19grams heavier, BUT....... It's cheaper, it has a built-in cooling fan (a good thing), a larger diameter (more torque) and with more torque you can always spin a bigger prop/higher pitch to compensate for the lower Kv. Besides, I have a couple of them on hand.
    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 03-09-2019 at 12:20 AM.
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  19. #169

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    #4 If you make it 449mm long, and get it light enough you would have a ready market for them in the Naviga Mini Hydro class racers, as that calls for a hull with a maximum of 450mm and the closer to that limit you are the better the performance in typical race water. I have raced the JAE mini and against Keps Minis but they have been outclassed by lighter molded boats for years, the only wooden rigger that I think is competitive is the RBC Fast4ward, but I have not actually seen one run myself.
    It would need to have enough space to fit in a 3s zippy 25c compact 2200mah battery and an energy limiter (about the size of a small RX), and have the battery space near the CoG so it can run with a 113g battery or a 170g battery and limiter.

    I have run some balsa sponsons in the past, and skinned sides aren't really needed, but a skin on the bottom surface is needed if you want them to last longer than a test session.

    Saving weight is good, I think you have to be under 390g +battery to be competitive in the class, if you stretch it closer to 450mm and get it under that weight I will buy one of you for sure. There is a minimum weight limit of 450g RTR, but that is 280-337g + battery and I doubt you can get down that far with a sealed and painted wooden boat.

    The second motor looks good to me, we typically use motors with 60-70g of mass, the KV is higher than I would choose, but not at all unheard of, and if designed well and built light will work well with 1.2 ish pitch props from Dr Props or Tenshock.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by NativePaul View Post
    #4 If you make it 449mm long, and get it light enough you would have a ready market for them in the Naviga Mini Hydro class racers,..........
    I could do that. That is tip of sponson to transom, right? The stinger doesn't count in overall length?

    Quote Originally Posted by NativePaul View Post
    ....... It would need to have enough space to fit in a 3s zippy 25c compact 2200mah battery and an energy limiter (about the size of a small RX), and have the battery space near the CoG so it can run with a 113g battery or a 170g battery and limiter.
    I currently have it planned to run 2S, but if I stretch it, I suppose the extra 7mm would accommodate the Zippy 3S. Can you send me a link to the limiter?

    Quote Originally Posted by NativePaul View Post
    ...... I have run some balsa sponsons in the past, and skinned sides aren't really needed, but a skin on the bottom surface is needed if you want them to last longer than a test session.
    The sponsons will be hollow in the middle. They'll need skins for strength and water-tightness. Like the KEPS, the sponsons will have a plywood (or G-10 or CF or aluminum plate) for a ride pad.

    Quote Originally Posted by NativePaul View Post
    ...... There is a minimum weight limit of 450g RTR, but that is 280-337g + battery and I doubt you can get down that far with a sealed and painted wooden boat.
    We shall see. I'm trying to remove as much wood as possible and still have it strong enough and water-tight.

    Quote Originally Posted by NativePaul View Post
    ..... The second motor looks good to me, we typically use motors with 60-70g of mass, the KV is higher than I would choose, but not at all unheard of,......]
    Remember, my plan was to run 2S. I like the helicopter outrunners in the small boats for a couple of reasons. They have built-in fan cooling, and they have an order of magnitude more torque than an inrunner of the same size which means a bigger prop or more pitch.
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  21. #171
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    I looked at the RBC Fast4ward. It reminds me of the old adage regarding aircraft origins (see photos): If it's ugly, it's British. If it's weird, it's French. If it's ugly AND weird, it's Russian....

    What I have planned will look much more sexy and should be lighter than the Fast4ward. Instead of a strut with beefy mounting brackets. I'm using a fixed stinger. I had planned on a brass stinger with ball bearings, but could just as easily use aluminum to save a gram or two. The 1/32" wire drive I like is a whole lot lighter than 0.098" cable, but I'd need to do a lot of testing to see if it would hold up to 3S over time. It works just fine with 2S boats, but I haven't used it for 3S. 1/16" wire should work as well, but I think in these small boats puts a lot of radial loads on the system. As long as the motor and propshaft use decent ball bearings, it should be OK. If I were building it to race in a timed event, I would use one of Steve's motors as I think they are the most efficient ones on the market.

    I have to finish up the Short Circuit build/kits before I get too far into this, but I have stretched it to 449mm and the limiter can fit on top of the ESC, balancing out the larger battery which sits up against the aft sponson boom and is ALMOST on the CG.
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    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 03-09-2019 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Add wire frame drawing
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  22. #172
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    I'm going to start a new thread on the outrigger project that has taken over this conversation, as it really doesn't belong in a thread titled: "Who wants to build a semi-scale....."

    That said, I do have an idea for the next in the series of 1:20 semi-scale hydros. Like the Short Circuit, this one will be another from "The Golden Era". I've been compiling data for another 1958 Unlimited which should be a whole lot of fun and easy to build. Obviously, I have to finish the other projects first, but I do have things brewing in the background. Much depends on whether or not any real interest develops with the issuance of the first two kits though....
    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 03-11-2019 at 02:34 PM.
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  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Jet View Post
    ..... I do have an idea for the next in the series of 1:20 semi-scale hydros. Like the Short Circuit, this one will be another from "The Golden Era". I've been compiling data for another 1958 Unlimited which should be a whole lot of fun and easy to build.......:
    UPDATE: I think the 1960 version of this boat will be easier to model, as you won't need ..... Mrrrffff mmmmmrrrrfffmmm


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  24. #174
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    Still waiting for the prototype shovelnose wood....
    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 03-11-2019 at 10:09 PM.
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  25. #175
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    Well, it's a start.....
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    Well, I picked up the parts from Mike the laser guy #2. His machine doesn't do nearly as good a job as Jesse the laser guy #1's machine. Oh well, it's a prototype, and the price was right.......

    Stay tuned for the process and know that the kits will use the better machine.
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    I've assembled the preliminary framework and found one or two structural and dimensional issues that have now been resolved on the drawings. That's why I always like to build prototypes first. The cutting files for the kits are finally ready to send to the laser guy. I'm going to hold off on that until I have everything else needed though.
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  28. #178
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    Default 1:20 RR Merlin DLP printed

    Earlier in this thread, I showed a photo of FLA 3D printed Merlin and Allison engines. FLA printing leaves a lot to be desired in the resulting surface finish. DLP printing yields a MUCH finer resolution. Here's what I'm working on having printed at 1:20 scale that will open up a whole lot of possibilities with the 1:20 scale hulls.

    I talked with my production laser guy and he's going to be on vacation until the first of April. There's just a couple of parts still "in the mail" so there's a good chance the Short Circuit kits should be ready to go by April 15th. I can't finish the prototype before that because laser guy #2 supplied 1/64 ply instead of the spec'd 1/32 ply for the sponson bottoms and that just won't work. It's too flimsy.
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    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 03-15-2019 at 08:56 PM.
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  29. #179
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    The cowl came out pretty good. It's made from "pancake stacked" 1/4 balsa without the headrest. It gets sanded to shape, then the headrest pieces are glued to the fin and sanded to shape. The fin/headrest assembly is then glued to the cowl and the joint filled in with spackle/putty.

    NOTE: The prototype uses a 2-piece bottom because laser guy #2 didn't have 6" wide wood. Production kits will be one piece.
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  30. #180
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    The boats using the Short Circuit hull were for the most part, powered by the Allison V-1710, but DLP printing opens up a whole new world in 1:20 scale. This motor came out a bit small at about 1:23 scale, so the detail in a 1:20 will be better.
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