MGM esc programming problem

[triton]

Hi

May I need some help about the controllers programming?
Three MGM controller what I have and the same problem with all.
I use the default factory settings only a few parameters what I was changed. Like lipo cell, cut off voltage and the programmed throttle control.
The problem is when I pull full throttle, around the middle of the throttle position the ESC block the motor.
I was emailed with Martin from MGM and he said try to change the P16 parameter. This is the acceleration time or use a smaller prop. Now the p16 on 9.(default 1.5). So it's better but not the real one. The acceleration is too long time and need a "kilometer" for full speed
The setup:
Agitator XL cat
Twin 5660 tp
12s lipo
x457 props reduced to 52
250.63 x2 MGM

The other mono boat do the same with the 400.63 ESC.
I think something I do not do well.
Is there any idea what to do?

Regards Peter

[RaceMechaniX]

Peter,
What radio and receiver at you running? Do you have a servo tester that could replace the receiver and test the motor and controller using the tester to rule out the receiver/radio.

Also, which motors are you using?

Tyler

[triton]

Hi Tyler
Sanwa m11 and rx 441 receiver.
With no load the rpm goes to max.
Under load comes the limit.
With another futaba radio the same problem.

[RaceMechaniX]

Try setting the timing to a fixed value like 10 Deg instead of Autotiming.

[triton]

Timing 6 degrees
The motor type tp5660 7D
I know it is on the limit with 12S.
Is there a problem?

[Fluid]

Several guys in the local club reported seeing something similar with their HV MGM controllers. Throttle drops off after a short time, logging shows excessive amps even with proven setups, etc. These guys are not newbies. That’s all I know at the moment, odd.



.

[RandyatBBY]

Mine does the same thing on launch. I always roll in to the throttle lightly. If I seam to pull the throttle too quick it blocks/or stops it. Once I get to full speed I can then hammer it at any speed. I am running a 1530 .5Y MGM 400-63 and a 47MM prop on 4S3P in a 34 inch sport Hydro.

[triton]

I'm not happy to hear tha similar.
I was changed all the cheap controllers (like flier,hifei,turnigy) for mgm professional ESC. These are 4 times more expensive like the others, and now I cant pull a full throttle with a 400Amp Pro ESC. Incredible.

[RaceMechaniX]

1180kv is pretty hot for 12S. I am not too surprised. You are likely seeing current limiting due to high phase currents.

Does it do the same behavior on 6, 8 or 10 cells?

[triton]

Not yet.
Next time I will try with 10s and share the experience.
Do you know how does the controller measure the peak and the input current?
Because after last track the peak was 810 amper, the input was 237 amper.

[RaceMechaniX]

The MGM's track both DC input current and AC phase current. With hot motors, it's usually the phase current which will cause them to start current liming.
And if your data is showing 810A AC peak, then that is too much.

Tyler

[rayzerdesigns]

I have had same issues with the mgm.. if u haven’t updated the firmware please do. It helps but does it eliminate it.. I’m not happy with mine either

[triton]

I found another topic on OSE, and the guy who uses D wind motors like me, has the same problem. He said will try lehners but no response from him yet.
Possible the MGM does not work well with the D wind motors?

[photohoward1]

800amps? 12s on a 100 KV Motor? Why?

[triton]

800amps? 12s on a 100 KV Motor? Why?

This came from the controller databox. This is the peak current. The input current much lower.
I dont know how.
The motor 1188kv.

[Doug Smock]

Several guys in the local club reported seeing something similar with their HV MGM controllers. Throttle drops off after a short time, logging shows excessive amps even with proven setups, etc. These guys are not newbies. That’s all I know at the moment, odd.



.

One of our club members is having the same experience. Unfortunately he had a bunch of coin invested in them before he realized they are paperweights. IIRC two of them went back to the manufacturer and were returned with the same issues.

[RaceMechaniX]

It is known that there are good motor and ESC combinations and you have found one of the bad ones.
The MGM 25063, 40063 and even the 80063 do not work well with 4-pole Delta wind motors. In particular the Neu, TP and similar motors.
The same controllers work very well with the LMT motors and some 4-pole Wye wind motors.

The same is true for the newer Schulzes, they work well with LMT motors, but not the 4-pole Delta wind motors. The old Schulzes have no issue.

I demagnetized a Neu 2215/1.5Y with a 40063 in about 30 seconds due to incorrect settings. A fridge magnet had more strength than the rotor when i pulled it out.
since that incident, I only run the larger format MGM's (25063 and 40063) with LMT's. The smaller body 25035 and 28026 seem to work better with the non-LMT motors.
I will say the MGM's have many protection features that prevent them from burning up which is usually a plus, however all the watchdog features also limit performance unexpectantly sometimes.

Tyler

[Fluid]

This came from the controller databox. This is the peak current. The input current much lower.
I dont know how. The motor 1188kv.

This is another known issue, see post #6. Excessive logged amps, which could be related to the low power issue.

“Known” by who Tyler? This is the first I’ve heard of it, ditto at least some others. The few guys I know who own them now find they have invested thousands of dollars in equipment they can’t use. Next they have to buy new motors just to run their MGMs?

I know none of this is your fault, but it is very frustrating for the consumer.



.

[triton]

Tyler
Agree with you
No doubt that these are good solutions to protect the controllers but when I was purchased the controllers nobody said from MGM Peter pay attention how you chose your motor.........
But we exchanged many e-mails about the technical details with Martin and Tomas from MGM.
Is there any experience with y wind tp motor?

[robw]

just bought a tp5870 "D" wind/mgm 400 (to go in a buggy) hope it works

[photohoward1]

My Schulze 40-160 controllers shut down after about 1 lap of full throttle runs on my TP d wind Motors. As I always tell guys in my club. Some combos just don’t play well together.


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[RaceMechaniX]

There were no specific posts, but several sidebar discussions on compatibility issues in the past. I know I have posted several times about Neu/TP motors with MGM controllers. And to anyone that has asked my advice I usually steer them away from these combo's. I agree it is frustrating to the end customer, but in defense of the ESC companies it takes hundreds of hours to tune ESC characteristics to suit such a wide variety of motors. Think about how many pole number, wind configurations, connectors, cable lengths and other permutations .

We were very fortunate that some like the Castle can be easily set-up for a wide variety of motors.

@ Triton, I have likely had all the same conversations you have had with Martin and MGM. My hope was that they would work on the tuning and get it solved over time.
I have worked with MGM on professional level controllers and know they are smart and capable guys. They have also built a very safe controller compared to 90% of the market. I don't know how well they will work with a Wye wind TP. Probably better, but I believe it has more to due with the inductance in the motors than the Winds.
Try setting your timing to 5 Deg, and low start-up torque or acceleration.

@Howard, you are talking about the new ones right? Your old ones should be pretty strong.

-Tyler

[Doug Smock]

It would be good if MGM would find a solution for guys like Don that are out to the tune of almost 2K! IMO they should have put a warning / disclaimer out there knowing there can be an issue.

Sure hope Castle comes back to the party!

[RandyatBBY]

My set up work well with a 40.160 but I am afraid of the getting it wet problem. I guess I could conformal coat it every 6 months and that will solve the problem.

[StevenBryant]

Tyler I have a 24.150wk that I was lan to use with a castle 1512 1y motor, do you think I may have problems with this combination?


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[photohoward1]

There were no specific posts, but several sidebar discussions on compatibility issues in the past. I know I have posted several times about Neu/TP motors with MGM controllers. And to anyone that has asked my advice I usually steer them away from these combo's. I agree it is frustrating to the end customer, but in defense of the ESC companies it takes hundreds of hours to tune ESC characteristics to suit such a wide variety of motors. Think about how many pole number, wind configurations, connectors, cable lengths and other permutations .

We were very fortunate that some like the Castle can be easily set-up for a wide variety of motors.

@ Triton, I have likely had all the same conversations you have had with Martin and MGM. My hope was that they would work on the tuning and get it solved over time.
I have worked with MGM on professional level controllers and know they are smart and capable guys. They have also built a very safe controller compared to 90% of the market. I don't know how well they will work with a Wye wind TP. Probably better, but I believe it has more to due with the inductance in the motors than the Winds.
Try setting your timing to 5 Deg, and low start-up torque or acceleration.

@Howard, you are talking about the new ones right? Your old ones should be pretty strong.

-Tyler

Newer.. yes

[triton]

I have some new information, but I think you know it.
MGM controllers work well with Lehners.
I found a 2250/10 motor in my cabinet, and today I have done some test run. Bigger prop size like with the other type motor and with blocked hull the MGM works great.
The acceleration time 0,5! Quick full throttle and the 2250 pushed out 9200w!!!!!!!!!!!!
There was no blocking.
Solution:must to buy lehners:)

[T.S.Davis]

The few guys I know who own them now find they have invested thousands of dollars in equipment they can’t use. Next they have to buy new motors just to run their MGMs?

I know none of this is your fault, but it is very frustrating for the consumer.

Frustrating. I'm in for 4 of these too.

It's not just the HV controllers. I raced a setup on a Seaking 180 that burned an MGM 280.26 to a crisp. MGM was able to extract the data off of the remains. It was pulling 1100 amps according to the log. But it works on a 180? hmmmm

I'm down to one that works but the link to PC doesn't work so no adjusting the 35 or so settings or data logging. I was able to set the Q record with that one though. On D wind no less. Picture me shrugging my shoulders.

[RaceMechaniX]

@ Steven, The 24.150 is probably the only Schulze that has a true rating equal to what is on the nameplate. If you can keep it below 150A DC input you will be OK. However, the 24.150's do not perform above the nameplate specs like the 40.160 and 32.200. The 40.3XX is another story.

@ Peter, good to hear the boat runs good with the Lehner. Unfortunately, there are no real good marine ESC's for the 4-pole motors. I plan on testing the YEP 180HV and a Kosmik 200HV with cooling for potential HV controllers in my boats in 2018.

My new style 40.160wk's and 32.200wk's will run quite happily with Wye wind 4-pole motors when I stick with a reasonable current.

The first gen Seaking 180's were pretty strong and surprised many of us. Mark F ran a T180 with some crazy Delta wind Neu motor when he went 80+ in his SAW mono. I thought for sure it was going to blow, but it survived. I have pushed one hard myself and it still runs great.

@ Terry, oddly enough I have burned up every other controller model except the MGM's. They have always current limited before I could cook them.

[Doug Smock]

I contacted MGM through their Facebook page. Tomas is going to check this thread out tomorrow.

I searched for the other thread that was up recently but was unable to find it. Does anyone know where it was?