Tired of hobby wing

[MG1234]

So I've been running hobby wing or turnagy 180 amp in all my different boats for a couple of years ,but they don't seem to last long .i run then in a Zonda twin,fighter cat twin ,36" genesis and a spartan ,all have 4082 motors of various KV,all run on 6 s,seems when you really work these ESC they start developing a glitch ,or after 30 seconds they click to 1/2 power ,I have the cell count off of auto,so just asking if others that are running hard are having these problems also? And my next ESC I buy I guess will be SF 200 or 220s,I pretty much just do speed runs till the lipo kicks out ,the ESC are warm to the touch ,about the same as the motor ,they just don't seem to be able to run full out on 6 s ,thanks

[Fluid]

Some club members like the HW-180s and have good luck with them. The Swordfish have, on the whole, been less reliable. ESCs are the current weak link.


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[MG1234]

I thought maybe I needed more amps ,as in a 220, the 240 amp is to expensive ,so do I just keep replacing the HW ? I don't want to get into cap banks and all that ,I did that last year with some BBRC ,thanks

[MG1234]

I'm also leaning towards the gas boats ,they seem to be more user friendly now ,I had the trucks years ago ,

[ScarabChris]

I'm also leaning towards the gas boats ,they seem to be more user friendly now ,I had the trucks years ago ,

I have had gas (gasoline) boats and they are more frustrating than the electrics. Once you get the electric boat dialed in, it works every time. The gas boats always seem to need some tuning on the carb. I built this boat in 2011, took me a few weeks to get it dialed in with the right ESC's and props. I had the Hobby Wing 180's but they were not robust enough. I put the Hydra 240's in and it's bullet proof. I was out of the hobby for a few years, this boat sat on the shelf in my office for 4 years. I plugged the batteries in and it came to life like I dialed it in yesterday. If this had the gas engine in it sitting for 3-4 years it would have taken some work to get it going.

That said....I like the gas boats still. I may build another one in the future but it will be big, twin engine, twin scale Merc #8 outdrives and electric start.

[CraigP]

Some club members like the HW-180s and have good luck with them. The Swordfish have, on the whole, been less reliable. ESCs are the current weak link.


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I think it’s important to add a hefty over rate to the ESC. I use 30-40% as a standard. This is no different than design engineers using mosfet data specs as published, the design usually fails. All of these specs, whether an assembly like the ESC or the discrete parts have data published to sell them, meaning very optimistic and ideal, which the real world ain’t! The prudent user realizes this and compensates to get a successful outcome.

[T.S.Davis]

.....varying Kv on 6s?

You can crest 180 amps quick on a 6s setup.

[CraigP]

You can crest out the amp rating on any ESC or battery voltage if you don’t run your numbers... Kv and prop have to be selected to achieve the desired results, which I’m going to assume does not include smoking the ESC. Terry is pointing out that as battery voltage is reduced, more current is drawn for a given setup and it’s easier the smoke your stuff.

I’d be running 8s on a 36” sport boat... I’m running 6s on my 32” boat...

[Fluid]

A three-month-old thread so it may not be of help to the OP, but many of the HW180s had issues with their LVC. Most racers disabled it and the controllers worked a lot better. This is what the OP seems to have been experiencing.


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[T.S.Davis]

I questioned the kV because of the tendency for some to recommend much higher kV than they should.

[Fluid]

Good point Terry, it could be caused by voltage depression from excessive amp draw, that from running a 2400 Kv motor on 6S...



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[CraigP]

2400kv on 6s? 53,000rpm.... And I thought my 1450kv motor was a bit on the hot side. Geez... Do you guys actually run that setup?

[T.S.Davis]

Craig, nope I wouldn't.

Guys keep recommending nonsense and then when the equipment fails the testimonials start coming in. "I don't know why it doesn't work for you. I run that all day long" is my absolute favorite. I'm not saying this is the case for the OP. I don't know what he's running. If it's a high kv setup the smallest of things can rapidly increase amp draw. Heck, thick grease on a colder day can screw you up. I run thinner grease when it's frigid.

The 180 V2 was super forgiving. You could go over the 180amps for a few seconds at a time but the V3 isn't as tough. Then the LVC issue could kick in too if the batteries are pushed too hard. Especially on the V3. The voltage available is a curve. The more you burn (amps) the lower the voltage available. I know you are aware of this Craig. For others though.

For the average reader/lurker consider this. A 42mm propeller spinning at 50,000+ rpm is throwing water everywhere. You're not actually getting all the thrust. It's wasted watts. If you drop down in Kv you can run a larger prop with a larger blade. That blade is more efficient. Less slip. More of the watts out become thrust. My 6s mono runs 56mm of prop. Think of it like an NHRA dragster. The cars are fast as long as the motor turns the tires and those tires propel the car. If the motor is turning the tires one p'scillion rpm and their just spinning what good are the rpm? Then what happens when those high RPM tires hook up, break loose, hook up, break loose, hook up? Spike, spike, spike hammering the setup to bits. The weak link gives up. For us..............ESC.

Long narrow cats can't always handle the large blades but food fer thought.

[Beaux]

I have a new HobbyWing 180 on 6s just starting to set it up with leo 4074, may by I should turn it down to 4 or 5s just in case. It's in a 35 in. Pirate.

[HTVboats]

Going down from 6S even with comparable KV's will draw more amps. I have 2 V3 one Hobby Wing and one SeaKing that are garbage. LVC dialed out and BEC replaced with a battery and still cut out at full throttle with a 1515. Just don't buy them is all you can do. My $40 Flycolor 150 is better but not enough for a 40X82. With over 7 dead horse 180's and 220-200 Swordfish I could have two more MGM's that work and last. A 28026 lite is I believe under $300. It's a pay me now or pay me later deal.
https://www.mgm-controllers.com/race...ries-lite.html
Mic

[CraigP]

Just “turn it down” by starting off with a small prop. Run it, check temps and speed, then work your way to larger props. I’m sensing a general misunderstanding with many boat enthusiasts. It’s not the higher voltage alone that makes the system pull more amps. As Terry said, the boat runs on Watts. The biggest contributor to the Watt draw is prop and boat type/ride. A given prop on a given hull, turning a given speed, will pull a given Watt value. So, smaller prop and turning less rpm are two ways to reduce Watts. Watts are Volts X Amps. Voltage is pretty much a given on a specific battery pack. So the variation in amps, up and down the load curve, by varying the throttle, is what varies the Watts. Simply, you keep out of trouble by keeping kv lower and starting with small props.

On all of my boats, I have a fast and slow motor combo. I know that sounds extravagant, but anything over 29” is potentially a real fast moving boat! I drove my 34” hydro foolishly on the fast motor before I, the driver, was ready and paid the price. I crashed my beautiful new boat, hard! Here’s my best advice, on a new boat, assume that YOU, the driver, is the weakest link! Set up and drive it with a slow setup. Usually just a small prop will suffice... Work up to full speed, into some turns, if the boat will handle it. If the boat feels like it’s moving farther down the course than your concentration (called “getting out ahead of you”) then you need to hang with that setup until it feels “slow” to you. Then move up to a faster setup. Nothing is worse that hearing that sickening “Thud” as your new boat, with all that work you put into it, hits something!

[CraigP]

Going down from 6S even with comparable KV's will draw more amps. I have 2 V3 one Hobby Wing and one SeaKing that are garbage. LVC dialed out and BEC replaced with a battery and still cut out at full throttle with a 1515. Just don't buy them is all you can do. My $40 Flycolor 150 is better but not enough for a 40X82. With over 7 dead horse 180's and 220-200 Swordfish I could have two more MGM's that work and last. A 28026 lite is I believe under $300. It's a pay me now or pay me later deal.
https://www.mgm-controllers.com/race...ries-lite.html
Mic

Well, here’s a case about it all being about setup. I have a 34” hydro, running on 8s with a 4082, 1250kv motor, turning an M545 prop that runs in the mid 60’s on the straights, with a SW 150A ESC in it. I’m only pulling 90-100A max on this setup. So it’s hard to make general statements in FE! I am replacing the ESC now with a 220A to test a 4s, class legal setup. So what Mic is saying is correct, dropping volts alone on a given setup will pull more amps, to make the Watts the setup needs to perform at speed. You’re actually safer by keeping your volts higher, as long as you follow the other things mentioned by me and others above.

[Beaux]

Cool I'll order a couple of props. Thanks for sharing.

[Fluid]

Going down from 6S even with comparable KV's will draw more amps...

This might be misleading to some, and is true only if the load remains the same. Simply dropping the voltage from 6S to 4S with no other changes will substantially reduce the amp draw. To get the same speed with the lower voltage will increase amps by ~50%.



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[CraigP]

Fluid’s right, I missed something. Dropping the volts on a given setup will reduce rpms, thus reducing amp draw. Mic is right too, dropping the volts with “comparable” kv, meaning you raise the kv at lower volts to keep the prop spinning at the same comparable rpm, will raise amps. Lots to keep up in the noodle!

[T.S.Davis]

I feel like we're having a discussion trying to teach people that read but rarely post. For those that know some of this rot, don't be offended.

Think about a 35" boat running 6s. Think of watts as horse power. This makes sense to people. 1 horse is about 745 watts btw. Takes a certain amount of power to push a vehicle to a desired speed.

Let's say to get a 36" boat to 50 mph takes 2200 watts or just under 3 hp. Watts/volts = amps. So on 6s it would take..... 2200watts/22.2volts = 99 amps or so.

Now if you want to go the exact same speed with the exact same boat but you only want to run 4s it still takes approximately 2200 watts. But you have less volts so....... 2200watts/14.8 volts = 148amps. (There's Jay's 50% increase) Giver er take. All hypothetical. 2200 watts isn't necessarily the magic number for 50 mph. Just an example.

If you run the same exact prop on 4s that you do on 6s you don't get the same watts. To get the same watts out on 4s you have to add propeller diameter until your watts come back up.

This is what Craig has been preaching for some time. More volts x less amps for the same watts out. The down side being that in some cases the smaller prop can't push the boat in question. The size to volt ratio in both organizations was given some thought. The lengths are the same for both so it wasn't entirely arbitrary. The boats are fine. The batteries can take it. What the writers didn't anticipate was having such a hard time getting reliable ESC. Seems to be an issue more of late than ever.

[Erroneous]

Can’t wait to see what Castle does.

[Peter A]

Just “turn it down” by starting off with a small prop. Run it, check temps and speed, then work your way to larger props. I’m sensing a general misunderstanding with many boat enthusiasts. It’s not the higher voltage alone that makes the system pull more amps. As Terry said, the boat runs on Watts. The biggest contributor to the Watt draw is prop and boat type/ride. A given prop on a given hull, turning a given speed, will pull a given Watt value. So, smaller prop and turning less rpm are two ways to reduce Watts. Watts are Volts X Amps. Voltage is pretty much a given on a specific battery pack. So the variation in amps, up and down the load curve, by varying the throttle, is what varies the Watts. Simply, you keep out of trouble by keeping kv lower and starting with small props.

On all of my boats, I have a fast and slow motor combo. I know that sounds extravagant, but anything over 29” is potentially a real fast moving boat! I drove my 34” hydro foolishly on the fast motor before I, the driver, was ready and paid the price. I crashed my beautiful new boat, hard! Here’s my best advice, on a new boat, assume that YOU, the driver, is the weakest link! Set up and drive it with a slow setup. Usually just a small prop will suffice... Work up to full speed, into some turns, if the boat will handle it. If the boat feels like it’s moving farther down the course than your concentration (called “getting out ahead of you”) then you need to hang with that setup until it feels “slow” to you. Then move up to a faster setup. Nothing is worse that hearing that sickening “Thud” as your new boat, with all that work you put into it, hits something!

That's some good advice Craig. There is no end to the people that think in their own minds that they can run a 70mph boat having never done it before. In reality newbies should start at perhaps 40mph on an oval and speed it up when they have learned to run AROUND the bouys , and have some experience racing with other boats. Can't say how many times I have seen and still see guys wanting boats to go as fast as possible, but they just do not handle well, nor can they drive them. The end result is broken boats, theirs and others, wasted time and money and discouraged boaters. Guys walk away from the hobby and/or there ends up with bad feelings within the club or organisation. It just doesn't need to happen.

[jevmax]

Just “turn it down” by starting off with a small prop. Run it, check temps and speed, then work your way to larger props. I’m sensing a general misunderstanding with many boat enthusiasts. It’s not the higher voltage alone that makes the system pull more amps. As Terry said, the boat runs on Watts. The biggest contributor to the Watt draw is prop and boat type/ride. A given prop on a given hull, turning a given speed, will pull a given Watt value. So, smaller prop and turning less rpm are two ways to reduce Watts. Watts are Volts X Amps. Voltage is pretty much a given on a specific battery pack. So the variation in amps, up and down the load curve, by varying the throttle, is what varies the Watts. Simply, you keep out of trouble by keeping kv lower and starting with small props.

On all of my boats, I have a fast and slow motor combo. I know that sounds extravagant, but anything over 29” is potentially a real fast moving boat! I drove my 34” hydro foolishly on the fast motor before I, the driver, was ready and paid the price. I crashed my beautiful new boat, hard! Here’s my best advice, on a new boat, assume that YOU, the driver, is the weakest link! Set up and drive it with a slow setup. Usually just a small prop will suffice... Work up to full speed, into some turns, if the boat will handle it. If the boat feels like it’s moving farther down the course than your concentration (called “getting out ahead of you”) then you need to hang with that setup until it feels “slow” to you. Then move up to a faster setup. Nothing is worse that hearing that sickening “Thud” as your new boat, with all that work you put into it, hits something!

Craig,
It sounds like you are getting it figured out. That’s great. FE boating is so much more fun when you aren’t burning up or breaking nice stuff all the time.

[Doby]

Can’t wait to see what Castle does.

Castle is doing something for boaters???

I thought they abandoned us looonnnggg ago.

[Erroneous]

Castle is doing something for boaters???

I thought they abandoned us looonnnggg ago.

There is a recent post on it. Ill see if I can find it after work.

[Mxkid261]

Castle is doing something for boaters???

I thought they abandoned us looonnnggg ago.

Post 61 https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com...rite-ESC/page3

[Erroneous]

[SD Eracer]

I've had a couple of "bad" 180a Hobbywings (Hobbyking branded), similar situation when they would cut out after full power. I think it was an internal issue.

Luckily, with HobbyKings 1 year warranty, I just used my phone to film about 30 seconds of the boat having the cutting out issue, posted on Youtube for Hobbyking to access, and they sent me a new one within a couple of days.

I've had no issues with any of the replacement ESCs they have sent me, this was after 7 months of use before they started acting up.

I've had 180v3 sunk in saltwater for over 30 minutes and still worked fine. In fact, I don't think my RC group members could do what we do without the 180a V3. Most people can't budget $250 or more for a single ESC, but $90 for one with a 1 year warranty, sure.

I run exclusively on 6S with all my boats, with varying either Leopard 4082 1600kv, 4092 1730kv, SSS 4082 2000kv and SSS 4074 2200kv with no issues. Though my most aggressive props are either the Octura 642 or M445 on my single drive, and 447 on my dual drive HPR, which runs dual SSS 4082 2000kv motors.