First Build Advice

[LukeFig]

Hi all!!
I've been boating for a few years now and i think I'm ready for my first build! I have a Spartan at the moment and i love the speed it gives.. But as u probably know, enough is never enough and i think its time for MORE SPEED!! I want to build a rigger because I've heard that they are stable at high speed even with some chop.. I like the Jae 21 and 33 but don't know which one to choose.. I like these most because i can buy a pre-bent stuffing tube for either one on Zippkits. Also they both have hardware kits that include everything i need to build it which makes it so much simplier to make sure im getting what i need I want to use the boat on 6s because i already have 6s packs and even some 3s for series. My main goal for all this is to go 60mph with decent temps and maybe even good runtime I'm only gonna use this with a few friends at the lake on the weekend so i wont be holding at 100% 24/7. All suggestions/advice welcome! Thanks --OVERALL BUDGET is no more than $750 (without batteries)--

Things I know before starting:

-RPM = Kv x Voltage of batts

-Riggers and reverse are not friends

-I can't afford a Neu motor without selling my left arm on the black market

[srislash]

I am no expert on the Zipkits but riggers in general ARE a 100% 24/7 kinda rig. They don't do slow really at all. 6s 5000mah is usually a feat in riggers as well. Hopefully someone with more knowledge on these particular ones will chime in.

Shawn

[CraigP]

From your description on the sort of fun you want to have, catamarans are a good hull. Riggers will do well above 60, especially a 33! I have a hydro, but those are speed commitment type boats. Cats can be very quick and turn on a dime! I'm not a rigger guy, so that's my 2 cents.

[Shooter]

A cheap P-limited 4S rigger will approach speeds of 55-60mph. A 6s rigger will far surpass that, unless you are propping down or running lower KV. What kind of chop are you talking about? Are you planning on running on open water (large lake)?

[Luck as a Constant]

stuffing a 6s pack into a jae 21 may be a challenge, no?

[CraigP]

That's the hard thing about riggers... It's like building a submarine! Has anyone ever put batts in the out riggers and cabled thru the boom? Wondering if moving the weight out sideways would add stability.. Any thoughts on that?

[LukeFig]

Thanks for all the replies!!
I would go with a low kv 6s setup over 4s since i already have those batteries.. I will be in a big lake so room is no issue. i will be in mostly very calm water with small chop once in a while. i do like a cat but i want to bui,d one of the riggers from zippkits for the reasons in my original post. I dont really want another rtr and building a cat seems more complicated since this is my first build

[CraigP]

I'm thinking along the same lines, just looked at zippkits this morning!

[LukeFig]

Does anyone have a suggestion on motor size and kv? ESC?

[Luck as a Constant]

Does anyone have a suggestion on motor size and kv? ESC?

I think you should email Steven directly at OSE and find out first, if a 6s pack will physically fit into the tub of a jae 21.
You're getting ahead of yourself here

[Luck as a Constant]

That's the hard thing about riggers... It's like building a submarine! Has anyone ever put batts in the out riggers and cabled thru the boom? Wondering if moving the weight out sideways would add stability.. Any thoughts on that?

I don't know if anyone has tried, mainly because there haven't been an issues related to stability within the power limitations of his hull. It's a great design and known to perform very well without trying to do stuff like you're suggesting

[Luck as a Constant]

This all of course being, we ARE still talking about the Jae 21

[LukeFig]

Thanks for the replies once again... this is all just ideas im not setting anything in stone yet.. I think that the Jae 33 would be a better option for me since i want to run 6s. Just looking for people with experience so i can have a fast and reliable boat

[LukeFig]

Zippkits says that the 33 can fit up to a 6s 4500mah and briefly talks about a 4082 being okay.. any suggestions based on this info?

[Luck as a Constant]

Well ide be looking for a motor in the 1500 kv range. But I've never owned a rigger. 4082 is probably plenty of motor

[Fluid]

A 4082 size motor may be more than is needed depending on the OP's speed requirements, but it could work. My personal JAE-21 runs in the high 70s on the oval turning 12-second laps. I run a 4S/5000 mAh pack and a Castle 1415/1Y motor. It is about all this old racer can handle. A 6S/3300 mAh pack with a 1600 Kv motor would give similar performance at 2/3rds the amp draw.

For more speed a 6S/4400 mAh pack and 1900-2000 Kv motor in the 33 hull would work, but propped up it will pull more amps. It really depends on the OP's speed and run time requirements. And I hope he doesn't say: "as fast as possible"!



.

[LukeFig]

A 4082 size motor may be more than is needed depending on the OP's speed requirements, but it could work. My personal JAE-21 runs in the high 70s on the oval turning 12-second laps. I run a 4S/5000 mAh pack and a Castle 1415/1Y motor. It is about all this old racer can handle. A 6S/3300 mAh pack with a 1600 Kv motor would give similar performance at 2/3rds the amp draw.

For more speed a 6S/4400 mAh pack and 1900-2000 Kv motor in the 33 hull would work, but propped up it will pull more amps. It really depends on the OP's speed and run time requirements. And I hope he doesn't say: "as fast as possible"!



.

Hey Fluid.. I plan on using it for some sport running on the weekends- no racing. I definetly want about 65mph but not much higher. Thanks for the help!

[Bp9145]

Luke have you considered a TP Power 4050 1700KV-1950KV or TP Power 4060 1750KV-1950KV motor? I personally like TP Power motors over Leopards although I have just as many Leopards as TPs from purchasing them in the earlier years before my experience and history with TP motors yielded better results than Leopard motors. I even like the performance of my SSS 4074 and 4082 motors than the Leo 4074 and 4082 all 2200KV. I don't know why but the SSS motors ran cooler than the Leopard motors. I don't know if it's because the SSS were 6 pole compared to the Leopards 4 pole and the TPs are a bit longer and longer means a bit more torque. The performance were about the same but my electronic gears ran cooler. But I only have comparison results with the 4074 and 4082 motors. Perhaps, someone can chime in and provide a better explanation. So what I'm trying to say is that, although the Leopards are good motors and I've never had any major issues with them a TP motor might be better for you since you want more torque to get quicker on plane so your on your way to achieve faster speeds. But, this is from my experience and might not be the same for others. I just thought I'd give you another brand of motors to consider and the TP motors are not much more $$$ than the Leopards.

[LukeFig]

Thanks for the info! I think i will go with a TP since the price isnt much higher and they seem a bit better based on what ive heard on here and at my LHS.. But based on my needs does anyone even have an argument for Neu? They are double the price, but are they twice as efficent? Again im not going for world records, just looking for some fun and speed

[Mxkid261]

I have three TP's they're the best motor Ive used. I havent bought a Neu, lehner, etc. I've tried most others besides an sss. I love the TP's for the money

[Bp9145]

Thanks for the info! I think i will go with a TP since the price isnt much higher and they seem a bit better based on what ive heard on here and at my LHS.. But based on my needs does anyone even have an argument for Neu? They are double the price, but are they twice as efficent? Again im not going for world records, just looking for some fun and speed

Neu motors are of much higher quality. But for your intentions you don't really need to go with Neu. You can allocate the money saved towards other quality components like hardware, esc, quality batteries. . .etc. Some say there's a big performance difference between TP and Neu and others say the difference in performance is not worth the price difference. As for me, lets just say if I had the choice between a Neu or TP where price was not an issue, I will take the Neu. But for what you intend to run your rigger you don't need the hight demands in what is required if you were to race the boat. Then you want to get as much advantages as possible and that includes the best motor, escs, batteries. . .etc you can get or afford since and most of the time, superior or better equipment equates to more $$$$. However, the best does not necessarily mean it will win you the race. . .tuning the boat and the better driver plays a big role in winning races but again , it doesn't hurt to have great equipment since it will most likely yield or enhance performance. Stick with the TP and you will be happy with the results.

[LukeFig]

Sounds like i will be going for a TP! I saw that the new Swordfish X just came out.. They come in 220a which is perfect for what i need. Is it worth the jump from a Seaking 180 or is the Seaking good enough? I assume the Swordfish would run cooler and have higher peak amps but is it worth it?

[Mxkid261]

The new 220x looks promising, and a good price. I'd like to try one eventually if they hold up lol

[CraigP]

TP motors seem to be getting hard to get...

[LukeFig]

Do you guys think the 4050 1570kv 4Y (4083) would be good in the 33? Or should i go up to the 4060 1650kv 6D (4092)? I think this KV is okay but if anyone has suggestions let me know!

[Mxkid261]

Do you guys think the 4050 1570kv 4Y (4083) would be good in the 33? Or should i go up to the 4060 1650kv 6D (4092)? I think this KV is okay but if anyone has suggestions let me know!

I have a 4050 and a 4060, if you can fit the longer can might as well! Lol

[Mxkid261]

TP motors seem to be getting hard to get...

Steve usually has a good selection in stock. The tppowerusa.com store pretty much has everything in stock. They will build you one too, usually takes a few weeks I would believe.

[CraigP]

Steve usually has a good selection in stock. The tppowerusa.com store pretty much has everything in stock. They will build you one too, usually takes a few weeks I would believe.

My mistake, it was SSS motors getting a bit scarce. I've been eyeballing a TP 4050 2310kv 5D motor.

[kfxguy]

Op, let me give you some info based on my personal experience.

If this is your first build and coming from a spartan, I'd sway you from a rigger. Why? Well they are a very particular animal to set up correctly. They can be hard to tune in. They like to be super light and your big battery of choice isn't really conducive to that fact. They barely float as it is. I'd recommend a cat first. To go 60 with a rigger is pretty easy and 6s is not what you'd want to use.

I see too many people trying to set a boat up based on equipment they already have, like batteries and motors and then wonder why the boat doesn't perform as it should. Should you decide to build this rigger tote talking about, my best recommendation is to build it based on how it needs building and buy the correct gear AND CORRECT batteries that are needed for your boat. It'll save you a headache later.

[LukeFig]

Op, let me give you some info based on my personal experience.

If this is your first build and coming from a spartan, I'd sway you from a rigger. Why? Well they are a very particular animal to set up correctly. They can be hard to tune in. They like to be super light and your big battery of choice isn't really conducive to that fact. They barely float as it is. I'd recommend a cat first. To go 60 with a rigger is pretty easy and 6s is not what you'd want to use.

I see too many people trying to set a boat up based on equipment they already have, like batteries and motors and then wonder why the boat doesn't perform as it should. Should you decide to build this rigger tote talking about, my best recommendation is to build it based on how it needs building and buy the correct gear AND CORRECT batteries that are needed for your boat. It'll save you a headache later.

What cat would you suggest? I could just go for a 4s setup in the Jae 33 but id rather not.. Any suggestions are welcome!