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Thread: What size or how many mAh

  1. #1

    Default What size or how many mAh

    Hey guys I have a 31" ML Hydro. Planning on running it in a p limited race. setup for 4S with a mild prop. how many mAh am I going to need to complete the heats? I want to balance the boat out properly too...

  2. #2

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    Need more info... What's your motor and prop?

  3. #3

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    Its a ProBoat stock 1050 kV motor and a ABC 1817

  4. #4

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    I run a 1050kv on 8s. That would be real slow on 4s... you want to shoot for about 36,000 to 38,000RPM. So your motor would be closer to a 2500kv for competition and 2200kv for sport boating. You'll get lapped twice running that slow a motor! Most people are running 7000-10,000mah packs, running 4s2p packs. Hydros like some weight up front.

  5. #5

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    Craig, are you a NAMBA or IMPBA member? IMPBA has a voltage cap at 16.92 V for P class hulls. So I guess what you're saying is i need to up the kV?

  6. #6

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    I'm not a member, but I'm really good with the electrical components... the reason I don't race is because it is centered around low voltage setups. That drives amps up, and amps is what breaks parts. But let's get back to your project... So with a 4s, 14.8V is the general value to apply to kv. So, 1050 X 14.8 = 15540rpm's, very low. You could turn a huge prop to compensate but here's the catch, larger props create more prop torque handling problems. Also, when large props cavitation then bite, they pull huge current surges, which can easily break parts. So, most have found, thru experience and school of hard knocks, that a prop speed of 30,000-38,000 yields a good compromise between these factors. Fast enough to run smaller props, less prop torque issues and the smaller prop has more manageable current surges. Also a smaller prop tends to stay in the water better, because you really want to avoid cavitation. But there's always rough water to deal with... I hope that helps you decide how you would like to proceed!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigP View Post
    I'm not a member, but I'm really good with the electrical components... the reason I don't race is because it is centered around low voltage setups. That drives amps up, and amps is what breaks parts. But let's get back to your project... So with a 4s, 14.8V is the general value to apply to kv. So, 1050 X 14.8 = 15540rpm's, very low. You could turn a huge prop to compensate but here's the catch, larger props create more prop torque handling problems. Also, when large props cavitation then bite, they pull huge current surges, which can easily break parts. So, most have found, thru experience and school of hard knocks, that a prop speed of 30,000-38,000 yields a good compromise between these factors. Fast enough to run smaller props, less prop torque issues and the smaller prop has more manageable current surges. Also a smaller prop tends to stay in the water better, because you really want to avoid cavitation. But there's always rough water to deal with... I hope that helps you decide how you would like to proceed!

    Good information, why does NAMBA rules limit 1/10 scale to 1500kv motors?, will speed be adequate on a light weight modern hull, 6-7 pounds? on 4S as rules require

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buoyhunter View Post
    Its a ProBoat stock 1050 kV motor and a ABC 1817
    Assuming you're in NAMBA, the only Proboat motor legal for limited from Proboat is a 1500kv motor unless your club allows for others. Does Proboat make one that's 1050kv?? Your best bet is to use whatever batteries you have and time a run to see where you are with your setup. Make sure to leave a good +20% left. It's been a while since I've run a p-limited hydro but a guess would be in the 6-8k mah range.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by oscarel View Post
    Does Proboat make one that's 1050kv??
    The stock motor in the Zelos 48 is 1000kV
    Zelos 36 Twin, Voracity 36, Miss Geico 29 V3, King of Shaves P1, Mini Zonda 27, Delta Force 26, Offshore Infinity, Stealthwake, Vac-U-Tug Jr

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by oscarel View Post
    Assuming you're in NAMBA, the only Proboat motor legal for limited from Proboat is a 1500kv motor unless your club allows for others. Does Proboat make one that's 1050kv?? Your best bet is to use whatever batteries you have and time a run to see where you are with your setup. Make sure to leave a good +20% left. It's been a while since I've run a p-limited hydro but a guess would be in the 6-8k mah range.
    I didn't realize that they limit prop rotation speed that much! 1500kv at 14.8v is only about 20,000rpm's loaded. So you have to spin a big prop... so that is where the big amp draws comes from?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fweasel View Post
    The stock motor in the Zelos 48 is 1000kV
    Zelos 48 motor isn't used for P-limited, completely different size motor.

    d. P-Limited Approved Motors
    i) The motors shall be used as shipped from the manufacturer, with the
    exception of creating a drive shaft flat spot, adding water cooling, and
    allowing the motor to be connected to the ESC by any means.
    ii) Currently approved motors
    Brand Model Description
    AquaCraft AQUG7000 L36/56 7.2-18V – 6 pole brushless
    AQUG7001 36-56-2030 – 6 pole brushless
    AQUG7002 36-56-1800 – 6 pole brushless
    Himax HB3630 1500 brushless – 6 pole brushless
    ProBoat PRB3310 A3630-1500 – 6 pole brushless
    PRB4017 A3630-1800 – 6 pole brushless

    DYNM3835 A3630-1500kv – 6 pole brushless,
    water cooled, marine motor
    DYNM3830 A3630-1800kv – 6 pole brushless,
    water cooled, marine motor
    iii) In addition, the CD has the discretion to allow the following:
    (a) An aftermarket motor that is a re-labeled and exact copy of any
    approved motor.
    (b) Any generational change of an approved motor, or a motor that
    is used in a Ready To Run (RTR) offering from a manufacturer
    that produces over 100 units of said offering, as long as there is
    no more than a 5% increase in any of the following
    manufacturers specifications as compared to any single
    approved motor: Kv, maximum constant amperage rating,
    mass, and MSRP.
    (c) The race flyer shall list additional allowed motors for the event
    Quote Originally Posted by CraigP View Post
    I didn't realize that they limit prop rotation speed that much! 1500kv at 14.8v is only about 20,000rpm's loaded. So you have to spin a big prop... so that is where the big amp draws comes from?
    There only pulling in the 100 - 120 amp range at max. These little motors can only handle so much. We've run limited OPC tunnels here and they're only using a 5000mah lipo, same with the riggers. Again, the 6-8k was a guesstimate and probably more suited for full P than limited.

  12. #12

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    Oscar, what's the voltage specs in P-Limited? Can my 34" Vortex Hydro qualify for this class? I'm currently rigged for about 3000W average, peak 5000W on prop cav recovery, and the boat weighs about 10lbs. Thanks!

    Is there a P-Limited Sport and if so, how much different is that class?

  13. #13

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    Are you planning to race? You need to find out what the venues you plan to race at are allowing.

    NAMBA has a list of approved motors in their rule book for P limited. The trouble is that the list hasn't evolved. The NAMBA 10th scale motor list is different than the P limited motor list. Looks like it's been posted since I started typing.

    If you're running IMPBA you need to see if there is a local club running a form of limited. IMPBA has no such limited classes despite them being the most popular FE classes in the history of FE racing. IMPBA fights the very notion that these classes should exist. IMPBA clubs and venue have to work around the book and create their own parameters. The typical spec for IMPBA clubs and some NAMBA clubs that are progressive is a simple size limitation. So it's 34" max boat length, 4s batteries, and a max motor size of 37mmx62mm in our club. Allows for some manufacturing flux but still is a limit. Any kv is allowed. Looks like you're in MI so I would go with the size spec.

    The 31" ML is and was designed for 4s power. If you truly want to have the option to race it at some point a number of known setups exist. Makes a killer spec boat.

    Aquacraft 2030 on an Octura X445
    Proboat 1500kv on an Octura X450
    Proboat 2000kv on an Octura X447
    TP 3630 1950kv with an Octura X445
    Raider 1850 (not sure on the prop for these yet)
    Raider 1750 on an X450 give or take.
    Promarine's smaller motor works too but I never found the exact prop to put on it. I was so sure this was going to be THE motor that my optimism baked ours.

    I've raced all but the 1850. I leaned conservative on the props. You might run more dia once you have the boat figured out and running free. The Aquacraft is the least forgiving of that bunch. If something is wrong it will give up the magic smoke the soonest. As always, run 2 laps the first time and check for heat. Then next run, do an extra 2 laps etc. Don't go out and run until it quits. You wont learn a thing about the setup as everything will be hot.
    glue sniffer

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigP View Post
    Oscar, what's the voltage specs in P-Limited? Can my 34" Vortex Hydro qualify for this class? I'm currently rigged for about 3000W average, peak 5000W on prop cav recovery, and the boat weighs about 10lbs. Thanks!

    Is there a P-Limited Sport and if so, how much different is that class?
    Craig, P classes are 11.10 - 16.92 V. 10,000 mah max and hull is max 34” with the p-limited's having to have an approved motor that I posted above. The rule book is here. The class we're discussing here is the P-Limited Sport class. The guys down in HOTMBC race them quite a bit.

  15. #15

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    P limited sport by NAMBA rules is/are a 34" full bodied hydro, 4s batteries with up to 10k mah, and a motor from the list.

    There are dimensional limitations on a sport but I'm 99% certain the Vortex meets them. Not sure about the length though. Is it truly 34"? I can't remember. Haven't seen one in a couple years.
    glue sniffer

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by oscarel View Post
    Craig, P classes are 11.10 - 16.92 V. 10,000 mah max and hull is max 34” with the p-limited's having to have an approved motor that I posted above. The rule book is here. The class we're discussing here is the P-Limited Sport class. The guys down in HOTMBC race them quite a bit.
    And sorry, T.S. Davis is right about the sport class rules for NAMBA.

  17. #17

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    We bang out about 50 heats a year of spec sport up here.

    Hope those HOTMBC guys are okay with the Harvey mess.
    glue sniffer

  18. #18

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    The Zelos motor is very large and retails for over $200, it is not at all suited for a 31" Hydro. I suspect that the OP transposed 1500 to 1050. He will have to read what is printed on his motor and report back.

    To answer his question, for a limited setup in a one-mile heat race he can safely run 4000 mAh packs. Less might work okay, but to save stress on the packs and to allow running a penalty lap safely I would still recommend 4000. FWIW my limited boats use between 2500 and 3200 mAh during a heat.



    .
    ERROR 604 - Caller's Buffer Is Too Small
    1. Ensure that your port is not configured to a low speed
    2. If you are still having problems, contact your counselor

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    We bang out about 50 heats a year of spec sport up here.

    Hope those HOTMBC guys are okay with the Harvey mess.
    I've chatted with a few and so far everyone is safe and drying out. I've seen Jay's posts on facebook and he looks to be ok as well.

  20. #20

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    Typing a lot. Sorry guys.

    There are some great options from the ABC line of props but they're virtually impossible to get unless you buy from one of the tuner guys. They'll sell you raw but that kind of defeats the purpose for them.
    glue sniffer

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluid View Post
    To answer his question, for a limited setup in a one-mile heat race he can safely run 4000 mAh packs. Less might work okay, but to save stress on the packs and to allow running a penalty lap safely I would still recommend 4000. FWIW my limited boats use between 2500 and 3200 mAh during a heat.
    Great, Jay is alive!

    If he runs with us he wont have to do an extra lap unless he has 3 cuts in a row or jumps the start. We're IMPBA. 50 points per cut.

    We did recently start doing a cool down lap though. Which I swore I would never ever do........ever....but I think it's actually working better for us. Guys actually get their crap off the water in a timely manner.

    The lowest mah I have seen work on our course was 4400mah. Comes in with 17% in the tank. A little tight but it works.
    glue sniffer

  22. #22

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    We bang out about 50 heats a year of spec sport up here. Hope those HOTMBC guys are okay with the Harvey mess.
    Terry, AFAIK we are all okay. Some are stranded, some have limited power but so far okay. But it isnt over, more flooding is expected from swollen rivers draining into the region. Our race this Saturday is cancelled.

    The Vortex is a legal boat in both organizations. Mine measured 33.5 using the box method. It has plenty of lift so it may make a decent Limited hull. I only ran mine full-P.

    .
    ERROR 604 - Caller's Buffer Is Too Small
    1. Ensure that your port is not configured to a low speed
    2. If you are still having problems, contact your counselor

  23. #23

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    Great, Jay is alive!......The lowest mah I have seen work on our course was 4400mah. Comes in with 17% in the tank. A little tight but it works.
    Y'all must be really pulling the amps using 3500+ mAh in a six lap race. I only run 5000s but some members run 4000/4400 packs with success. In the Vortex there is no reason not to run 5000 mAh packs.


    .
    ERROR 604 - Caller's Buffer Is Too Small
    1. Ensure that your port is not configured to a low speed
    2. If you are still having problems, contact your counselor

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluid View Post
    Terry, AFAIK we are all okay. Some are stranded, some have limited power but so far okay. But it isnt over, more flooding is expected from swollen rivers draining into the region. Our race this Saturday is cancelled.

    The Vortex is a legal boat in both organizations. Mine measured 33.5 using the box method. It has plenty of lift so it may make a decent Limited hull. I only ran mine full-P.

    .
    Jay, good to see you're all ok.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    P limited sport by NAMBA rules is/are a 34" full bodied hydro, 4s batteries with up to 10k mah, and a motor from the list.

    There are dimensional limitations on a sport but I'm 99% certain the Vortex meets them. Not sure about the length though. Is it truly 34"? I can't remember. Haven't seen one in a couple years.
    Man, that filled up fast! Yes, good to hear from Houston guys. My CEO lives there and he reports it's a mess! Anyway, Terry, the Vortex is 33.75" as measured on the hull. Does the strut come into play on overall length? I'm thinking of building an ML boat for the class. The Vortex was built for 8s and is an R&D boat. I think to race, you need a light little mosquito to get at it! The Vortex is heavy, with sponson mods, about 10.5lbs. I appreciate all the answers, thanks guys...

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by oscarel View Post
    And sorry, T.S. Davis is right about the sport class rules for NAMBA.
    Thanks Oscar, I'll give it a read... pretty sure the Vortex won't have the power to compete, it's too heavy. Thinking about an ML boat like you have, make it super light and see if I can keep it on the water. As Jay points out, you want enough battery to compete. Putting in more mah than you need is just adding weight. So that will be a whole new learning curve. I'm collecting some good power data, maybe I can put it to use other than business.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigP View Post
    Thanks Oscar, I'll give it a read... pretty sure the Vortex won't have the power to compete, it's too heavy. Thinking about an ML boat like you have, make it super light and see if I can keep it on the water. As Jay points out, you want enough battery to compete. Putting in more mah than you need is just adding weight. So that will be a whole new learning curve. I'm collecting some good power data, maybe I can put it to use other than business.
    That was a Blazer 40 sized whiplash I had. And it's heavy and a 36" 6s boat. Just enough to finish is what's normally best. Also remember that here in Texas we normally don't get ideal weather conditions for racing, so a little on the heavy side also isn't a bad idea.

  28. #28

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    Got it... thanks!

  29. #29

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    Nice, I shudder to think of you hitting someone with those metal sponsons.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    Great, Jay is alive!

    If he runs with us he wont have to do an extra lap unless he has 3 cuts in a row or jumps the start. We're IMPBA. 50 points per cut.

    We did recently start doing a cool down lap though. Which I swore I would never ever do........ever....but I think it's actually working better for us. Guys actually get their crap off the water in a timely manner.

    The lowest mah I have seen work on our course was 4400mah. Comes in with 17% in the tank. A little tight but it works.
    I do appreciate this information too. I've been benched for two years so, it's nice to know.

    I swear as soon as this shovel nose is done I'm going into high gear building finally. I'll never build a boat for someone else again.

    >
    >

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