Of course this happens.....sigh

[Shoc-RC]

Sooo, getting ready to go on vacation to a real lake with a lake house and everything, just put a new motor in yesterday that HH replaced under warranty for a collet issue, motor still ran fine and will be used as backup if I can ever get the collet off the shaft. Here is what happened today. White smoke is visible after only a short run.
I assume one or both ESC fried but I don't know why or how. All pre run checkout list was good, everything worked prior to dropping in water to include minor throttle. Couple of questions, been researching all morning. Don't see anything fried but smell that nasty electrical fire smell. Can't tell where it is coming from because the entire inside smells like it.
Possible scenario(s) after I have done research today:
1. ESC(s) overheated malfunctioned, burned up.
1. Motors malfunction and caused stress on ESC(s) or just the far ESC, and burned it or them up? (I had to swim for it, took about 10 minutes but motors and ESC were barely warm) No debris on prop no exposed wires charred as you can see.
2. ESC wire connection was toast before I started running and came all the way looose?
3. Something someplace came un-soldered due to heat or short??
4. The resistors on the power ESC wires are the issue?

Anyway, still relatively new when it comes to the electronics of it all which is why I bought RTR. Ran Octura 447 de-tongued props several times without any heat or other related issues prior to today.

Okay guru friends, I will await your suggestions. I have ordered two new ESCs from HH because we leave for the lake in 5 days so will have those on hand as backup if trouble shooting is a bust.

Question, is there a way to test one ESC with Each motor on this duel setup, that way I could eliminate one or both ESC and or motors?
Question, if the far ESC is toast could or vice versa, could/would it affect the other ESC?

I can spin both motors by hand, no binding that I can tell in either the shafts or anyplace else. Everything is lined up perfectly.

Thanks in advance. Let me know if there are any quesions.

This is a Zelos on 6s 2pk, 1 straight to each ESC, Octura 447s. Have run it half a dozen times without major issues.

White smoke

After smoke canopy off

Lights come on, no beeping, minor flutter on very slight throttle then nothing.

[fweasel]

You lost one motor only a few seconds into that run. As soon as it took off, it didn't sound right and shortly after that you can hear one dominant over the other until what sounds like to me, only a single motor running before shut down. Not sure what caused that, be it motor, esc, thermal, electrical, gremlins...

My first guess after a motor swap from someone new to the hobby would be mis-alignment in the flex cable, collet, and motor. You say there's no binding. When the collets are loose, does the flex cable slip into the collet with no deflection and does it still appear to be relatively centered in the teflon liner? I don't like to see the flex cable retainers on the Zelos as I don't think there's enough room between the end of the stuffing tube and the motor collet tip. Is it possible those could have caused binding? Any evidence of friction: melted telfon tube end, burn mark on the flex cable? Are your flex cables spinning in the correct direction, i.e. were they reinstalled on the proper sides? The winds in the flex cable should make a ^ pattern that point towards the bow, that is, when looking from behind the boat, the left cable winds should angle upwards from left to right. The right cable winds should angle upwards from right to left.

[Shoc-RC]

You lost one motor only a few seconds into that run. As soon as it took off, it didn't sound right and shortly after that you can hear one dominant over the other until what sounds like to me, only a single motor running before shut down. Not sure what caused that, be it motor, esc, thermal, electrical, gremlins...

Thanks fweasel for the reply and insight. Listening to it again, I hear exactly what you are talking about now, didn't notice it earlier. Holy crap, nice catch! I am worried about the motors I guess, hoping they are not shot. I think it is safe to say the ESC would go before the motors but not sure.

My first guess after a motor swap from someone new to the hobby would be mis-alignment in the flex cable, collet, and motor. You say there's no binding. When the collets are loose, does the flex cable slip into the collet with no deflection and does it still appear to be relatively centered in the teflon liner?

I am new to trouble shooting burned out electronics and/or smoking motor/esc issues, not new to FE boats in general. I understand what could have happened just not really sure what happened or how to troubleshoot/test duel set up ESC and motors. I have never had a duel set up, this is my first. To address other points, there is no mis-alignment, have pulled these motors a few times now. I went over alignment meticulously but double checked just now, Flex slides right in on both and everything is centered perfectly in brass stuffing tube/teflon liner.

I don't like to see the flex cable retainers on the Zelos as I don't think there's enough room between the end of the stuffing tube and the motor collet tip. Is it possible those could have caused binding? Any evidence of friction: melted telfon tube end, burn mark on the flex cable?

I would agree on the retainers, I don't like them either, they are bigger than I anticipated, however, they are on there right next to the collet and are locked in place, I don't see any burned areas or even a scratch on the retainers. I will probably stop using them anyhow and just tighten the bajeezus out of the collets.

Are your flex cables spinning in the correct direction, i.e. were they reinstalled on the proper sides? The winds in the flex cable should make a ^ pattern that point towards the bow, that is, when looking from behind the boat, the left cable winds should angle upwards from left to right. The right cable winds should angle upwards from right to left.

Flex cables are good to go, and still pristine from Jeff Wohlt, just got them a couple of runs ago..... just checked them again to make sure, gtg, zero damage and put together correctly forming the ^.

Thanks again for the reply.

[vinnyp]

If you want to check your motors and ESC's individually, its not too difficult. If you look at the small gauge red, white and black wires coming from the ESC's to the receiver, you will notice that they plug into a "Y" connector, which leads to the receiver. This connector allows both ESC's to be controlled from the common receiver. Unplug 1 of the ESC wires before the "Y" in the connector going to the receiver. Then just power up that ESC and check the motor functions.

BTW... If you replace 1 or both ESC's its best to program them. I just replaced both of mine. I found it very simple to program with a Dynamite 3005 program card. Check out this thread..
https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com...5-program-card

[Shoc-RC]

If you want to check your motors and ESC's individually, its not too difficult. If you look at the small gauge red, white and black wires coming from the ESC's to the receiver, you will notice that they plug into a "Y" connector, which leads to the receiver. This connector allows both ESC's to be controlled from the common receiver. Unplug 1 of the ESC wires before the "Y" in the connector going to the receiver. Then just power up that ESC and check the motor functions.

BTW... If you replace 1 or both ESC's its best to program them. I just replaced both of mine. I found it very simple to program with a Dynamite 3005 program card. Check out this thread..
https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com...5-program-card

Thanks Vinnyp appreciate the instructions. I'll test it later. Ordered my new program card earlier today and it will be here tomorrow along with 2 new esc. Hopefully when all is said and done, I'll only need one new esc!

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[srislash]

Just a couple small things that come to mind, are the motor mount screws too long and clicking on rotors? And I know you said you have experience but always a good check is: gap at drive dog. How is the water cooling layout? Any 'T's or Y's? I ask because if cooling was insufficient on one side it would cook something and then load the other side up.

Shawn

[srislash]

Ok now that I watched the first vid, that stuttering is usually indicative of a wet ESC. And if you continue to tag the throttle at that point the white smoke shall occur.

[fweasel]

Got it. Now that we know you're not new to FE, we can glaze over a few things. I agree with Vinny, I would unplug your ESC Y harness and test each ESC and motor independently. Look for problems or affirmations, then cross check you findings by swapping out one component with another from the other side of the boat and see what happens.

In my limited magic smoke experience, when ESC's pop, there's lots of physical evidence, black, charred, burnt stuff. When I've popped motors, They've usually looked fine on the outside, still spun smooth by hand, but smelled worse than any other part from inside the hull. Maybe a little nose detective work might help you narrow down the cause.

[MADRCER]

My thoughts...It could be that you were not running the boat fast enough and long enough with WOT in order to let the water cooling work properly, (it won't work properly unless you are going at least 30mph and even at higher speeds the cooling system isn't the best in the world by no means). Then it's possible that the left ESC went into thermal shutdown (or possibly burned up) from overheating due to it having not being cooled very well or even at all causing it to work harder due to the slower right and left hand turns you were making. Then the right motor burned up because it was the only motor running the entire boat after the left ESC went into thermal shutdown (or burned up). You can connect the wires from your right esc to your left motor, connect a battery and verify weather the motor and/or the ESC is good or bad on the left side by doing this.. I know for a fact the right motor is gone because of the stuttering it is doing (ask me how I know...lol). So, I believe your right motor is gone, and I believe the left motor or the left ESC is gone, one or the other but not both IMHO. Good Luck!

[MADRCER]

If you want a ESC programing card I suggest this one...it is the same as the Dynamite one but about half the cost.

https://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pr...-seaking-pcard

[Shoc-RC]

Got it. Now that we know you're not new to FE, we can glaze over a few things. I agree with Vinny, I would unplug your ESC Y harness and test each ESC and motor independently. Look for problems or affirmations, then cross check you findings by swapping out one component with another from the other side of the boat and see what happens.

I removed the Y harness completely, on one side, the red wire has a section off of it, I assume the factory does that due to duel ESC and electricity distribution similar to batteries.......I did test the ESC, put the programming card on them, they are still programmed correctly, (F/Reverse, auto lipo select, timing 7.5...) only thing I could not check or program was the rotation, CC or CW.... hmmmm. (dynamite 3005 card) Lights come on even the new ESC resulted in same function.... so I removed the motors, yup, that the problem, they are both burnt toast...and smell like it too..... being as I like to see what makes things tick I removed the covers...oh yeah, all black inside and some of the copper winding to the leads are just melted away......wonder what happened to that right motor, ESC seemed fine, it was a warranty motor I recently got from HH....sigh. I agree with the other theories... once the right blew, must have been too much for the left.

In my limited magic smoke experience, when ESC's pop, there's lots of physical evidence, black, charred, burnt stuff. When I've popped motors, They've usually looked fine on the outside, still spun smooth by hand, but smelled worse than any other part from inside the hull. Maybe a little nose detective work might help you narrow down the cause.

Unfortunately, all the electronics and motors smelled bad, the entire inside of the boat is permeated. But once removed, motors are the culprit which is good news.

I want to thank everyone for their input... guess you become a pro when stuff happens and makes you delve deeper... I feel better about furthering my knowledge on burned up motors and ESC programming...... the real scary part is I don't know what happened. Could the ESC have actually failed to regulate the power and blew the motor even though they look okay? Now I am terrified to hook up new motors to existing ESC... if the same thing happens. that is an expensive test, lol. Cheers all and may your motors never catastrophically fail you!

[fweasel]

First, your comment on rotation, there is no setting for that in the programming card. Its dictated by the order the motor wires are connected and the setup of the throttle on the transmitter. When you put everything back together, left motor should spin CW and the right motor should spin CCW. If they don't, reverse a single ESC to motor wire connector and test again.

When you get the new motors in, just arm a single side at a time and watch the ESC light. Do a throttle calibration on it first. Arm it, and make sure it counts out the correct number of cells connected. Then do a quick full throttle blip to make sure the green LED on the ESC goes solid when you're at full throttle. Do the same with the other side, then reinstall the Y harness and go for a quick recon lap, bring it back in, check out the temps. In my opinion, twin motor boats are very easy to hear when something isn't going right because the normally harmonious notes of both motors spinning together goes flat quickly when something's wrong.

Wonder if HH will send you a pair of the new 2000Kv motors from the UL19 and Veles since the old style are disco'd. That would be a welcome replacement.

[CraigP]

Shoc, I sympathize with your concern. It's a sickening feeling, not knowing what will happen. Keeping good thoughts for you that it will all power up ok. Just do your homework, double check everything then say "What the hell!"

[vinnyp]

I removed the Y harness completely, on one side, the red wire has a section off of it, I assume the factory does that due to duel ESC and electricity distribution similar to batteries.......!

What do you mean by this? Are you saying that there is a break in a red wire from one of the ESC's to the receiver?

[fweasel]

What do you mean by this? Are you saying that there is a break in a red wire from one of the ESC's to the receiver?

I believe he's describing that one of the red + power wires on the Y harness is clipped, which is necessary, when you're connecting 2 ESC's with built-in BEC's to a single receiver channel.

[Shoc-RC]

I believe he's describing that one of the red + power wires on the Y harness is clipped, which is necessary, when you're connecting 2 ESC's with built-in BEC's to a single receiver channel.

Correct

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[vinnyp]

I didn't know that is how it is wired.

Just took a look at mine. It is wired that way as well. I didnt know that. Why should it be that way? I am curious to learn.

[fweasel]

The red wire on the lead from the ESC to the receiver is how the receiver gets it's power from your battery packs connected to the ESC. Its called a BEC, battery elimination circuit. Since the Zelos has two ESC's, you need to disconnect one of the red wires. On custom builds, some people physically cut one of the red wires. The better way to do it is with a Y harness, like the Zelos, or to de-pin the red wire on one of the receiver plugs. The reason for that, is when you need to calibrate the ESC's individually, they'll each need to be able to power the receiver. A cut wire is pain to temporarily jumper to get that power, where as repinning or removing the Y harness are simple options.

[vinnyp]

Thanks for the explanation. I learn something new here everyday.

[Shoc-RC]

First, your comment on rotation, there is no setting for that in the programming card. Its dictated by the order the motor wires are connected and the setup of the throttle on the transmitter. When you put everything back together, left motor should spin CW and the right motor should spin CCW. If they don't, reverse a single ESC to motor wire connector and test again.

When you get the new motors in, just arm a single side at a time and watch the ESC light. Do a throttle calibration on it first. Arm it, and make sure it counts out the correct number of cells connected. Then do a quick full throttle blip to make sure the green LED on the ESC goes solid when you're at full throttle. Do the same with the other side, then reinstall the Y harness and go for a quick recon lap, bring it back in, check out the temps. In my opinion, twin motor boats are very easy to hear when something isn't going right because the normally harmonious notes of both motors spinning together goes flat quickly when something's wrong.

Wonder if HH will send you a pair of the new 2000Kv motors from the UL19 and Veles since the old style are disco'd. That would be a welcome replacement.

Thanks for the tips. Yeah, the 3650-2000Kv, 6-Pole, Water-Cooled, Marine Motor (DYNM3831) that the UL19 has would be awesome but I bet they have some Original Zelos 36 motors laying around for just this warranty purpose especially since you can't currently even get the 3650 anywhere till October. I'll just be happy if HH decides to warranty both motors! If they do, I will be purchasing the UL19 very soon as a nod towards them and because it looks like a damn fun boat. With this level of customer service and HH standing behind their product like this, how can you go wrong! If they decide not to warranty, I will be looking at other compatible motors, probably SSS or NEU. Have not done a ton of research but I know there are some suggestions over in the Zelos mod thread.

Thanks again everyone, I will post after I get everything back up and running.

[MADRCER]

Thanks for the tips. Yeah, the 3650-2000Kv, 6-Pole, Water-Cooled, Marine Motor (DYNM3831) that the UL19 has would be awesome but I bet they have some Original Zelos 36 motors laying around for just this warranty purpose especially since you can't currently even get the 3650 anywhere till October. I'll just be happy if HH decides to warranty both motors! If they do, I will be purchasing the UL19 very soon as a nod towards them and because it looks like a damn fun boat. With this level of customer service and HH standing behind their product like this, how can you go wrong! If they decide not to warranty, I will be looking at other compatible motors, probably SSS or NEU. Have not done a ton of research but I know there are some suggestions over in the Zelos mod thread.

Thanks again everyone, I will post after I get everything back up and running.

Got to keep your eyes peeled....I ran across some more 3831's Wednesday and expecting the delivery tomorrow...

[Shoc-RC]

Well, once again, customer service and HH come through. After watching the vid they are shipping me two motors. I'll let you all know if they are the old model or new. Annnnd that's why I also purchase the UL 19 for my Lake trip... it has been doing awesome love the boat I'll post in that forum later.

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