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Thread: Challenger 43

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    You here?

    can't believe it!


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    My dear Brushman,
    Very happy to read you here...
    OSE forum since 2012...Great forum...I learn a lot...
    No choice when you love american V Hulls, especially Aeromarine ones ...

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    That is my favorite boat.
    Have one of Chris Fine's builds with an 11HP in it.
    Super fun boat....
    I have had that boat out in some 3 foot waves and it takes it.

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    Hi Fred
    Are you running endurance races? What set up do you have in the boat?
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

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    Hi Peter,
    Yes...My set up is : TP 4070-440kv ( real kv is 460- 0 timing), Hobbywing 130 HV V3- X457- 12S 16000 mah-COG: 32 %.


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    Hi Fred
    Great to see more electrics doing endurance. I have been running an Osprey this year,
    https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com...Endurance-Boat.

    I would have been keen on a Challenger 43, but it is just too difficult and pricey to get down under. I have a 46" boat for next year running a Leo 5692 540 kv on 10s, same esc, 20AH packs. I may change over to 12s later as the 20AH packs seem to have become unavailium.
    What prop(s) are you running and what sort of speeds are you doing?
    Any chance of some pics of your set up?

    I really enjoy the endurance racing, especially when you just keep going round without the gas issues. There can always be other problems at times though. I have been taken out several times by gassers and their bad driving!
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

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    FFE590A6-112B-4EF2-A914-0A47046B13A6.jpgF1321C76-8571-4836-97B5-40A313071577.jpg

    I read your thread...The prop is an X457. Top speed is 72 Km/h with Multistars...Run Time: 21 to 23 mn. I Really like endurance Racing too...In France, it’s quite different : most of the gassers accept Electric boats...No problem...and some of them also have fun with electric boats...it’s effective for example in my club (Viry).
    Last edited by fred 75; 10-29-2018 at 08:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fred 75 View Post
    FFE590A6-112B-4EF2-A914-0A47046B13A6.jpgF1321C76-8571-4836-97B5-40A313071577.jpg

    I read your thread...The prop is an X457. Top speed is 72 Km/h with Multistars...Run Time: 21 to 23 mn. I Really like endurance Racing too...In France, it’s quite different : most of the gassers accept Electric boats...No problem...and some of them also have fun with electric boats...it’s effective for example in my club (Viry).
    Nice. How do you hold your batts in? Do they just have velcro to hold them to the hull? How do you seal your hatch, tape? My top speeds have been in the region of 70kph. In rough water you cannot use it so well, if you want to stay upright that is. I like the rough because it slows the gassers down, some of them here put in ridiculous horsepower and have boats of 65"+ in length. It does show though at times with reliability issues.
    It has been great this year proving that electric can do endurance racing. I am hoping that there might be one or two more take it on.
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

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    Hi Peter,
    I only use Velcro to hold My batts In...But i’m not an exemple...too lazy and it’s hard for me to finish a boat......with the Weight and the dimensions of the 6S 16000, and a good Velcro, it’s ok for me...No particular issue... to seal the hatch, I’m using a large tape at the rear of the Hull...and I use a sheet of polycarbonate (lexan) under the hatch...Four races this year with the Challenger...and a first participation In the 24H of Viry, as member of the winning team...Great fun...A Great Way to learn about endurance boats...

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    Hello Fred 75,

    I would like to build a Challenger 43 similar to your boat with the TP 4070 440KV motor, the 130 amp HV Seaking ESC, an Octura X457 prop, and a pair of 6S 200000 mAh Multistars wired in series for 12S Operation. I noticed that Peter A is drawing roughly 50 amps with his Osprey equipped with a TP 4060 540KV motor and a Prather 240 prop. How many amps is your Challenger 43 drawing with the TP 4070 440KV motor and X457 prop?

    Could you indicate what hardware and running gear you are using in your boat. Are you running with a 3/16" flex cable & 3/16" shaft for the 3/16" bore X457 prop? What type of strut or stinger do you use, the size of your trim tabs, and the size of your turning fins. Does your boat employ a separate rudder assembly or an integrated rudder/strut assembly. Are you satisfied with your choice of the running gear and hardware. I have tried to get recommendations from FE boat equipment retailers, but have not heard back from any of them. Perhaps they are too busy with holiday sales this season to have time to respond to my emails.

    Charlie

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    Hi Tebby
    If you use a similar/same setup as Fred you should get the same results. For hardware use whatever is most easily available or your preference. Most common would be either Speedmaster or TFL parts, either you can get here at OSE. It looks from the pics that he is using 3/16" shafts. that is no problem with a relatively short shaft. I have broken one this year in rough water, but I was running pretty hard and it was a cheap shaft.
    My guess is that Fred's average current draw is around 40 amps. Going smaller on props, 55mm?, would lower both current draw and speed, and vice versa. The TP motor and SK HV 130 will be a good combination. Another motor option would be a 400kv HET motor http://www.highendrc.com/index_eprod...roducts_id=338
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

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    Hello Peter,

    Thanks for your quick response. A 40 - 50 amp draw is pretty awesome for a 43" boat with twin 16000 or 20000 mAh 6S Lipos. Is the set back distance of the rudder assembly on your Osprey 4" or longer?

    I will email OSE info with my parts and hardware list for this setup and see if they have other suggestions or recommendations.

    Charlie

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    Quote Originally Posted by tebby2 View Post
    Hello Peter,

    Thanks for your quick response. A 40 - 50 amp draw is pretty awesome for a 43" boat with twin 16000 or 20000 mAh 6S Lipos. Is the set back distance of the rudder assembly on your Osprey 4" or longer?

    I will email OSE info with my parts and hardware list for this setup and see if they have other suggestions or recommendations.

    Charlie
    The Osprey rudder is around 100mm, the stinger is the same as my Pursuit.
    I would use the OSE quick change mount for a 40mm motor (I did!). My set up was drawing 50A average, so I could do 20 mins on 20000mah batts. I am planning on running 12s this year on the leo 540kv motor but will run smaller props to get around 70-75 kph and keep the current draw at 50A. I just have to get the boat painted, the prep is taking ages, as and when the weather and time permit. I was almost ready for colour but have had to grind out and epoxy the hull/deck join as it all cracked the paint around!! Painting will be a Christmas break job. I will be having some time off starting end of next week.
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

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    Hi Tebby,

    Peter answered most of your questions (Thank you Peter...). Pesonally, I do not use trim tabs because they could increase Amp draw; and, in most of the situations, they are not necessary to set correctly a boat. In my opinion, 12S 20 000 mah is maybe too heavy for the Challenger 43 (It could degrade the handling).
    One last thing: with that kind of set up (low kv, 12S and a 130 HV esc) you can also go quite fast if you want (I don't speak about Endurance of course… ) with a different prop and different bats (For Example with the Challenger 43: 92kmh-57mph, 12S2P 5000 mah 30C, and X465). It's a quite versatile set up …

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    Hello Fred 75,

    Yes indeed, Peter was very helpful.

    Thanks for the information about Challenger 43. Interesting about your choice to eliminate trim tab usage. Upon completion construction, I will do for initial trail runs without trim tabs to see how it performs. Assuming I get the hull trimmed and balanced correctly, and the boat doesn't porpoise or act erratically, I will choose to go without them. Less equipment and hardware is always better - there are less things to break down. Do you also eliminate turning fins for less drag?

    Thanks also for the suggestion of not using the 20000 mAh batteries. The 16000 battery is less money and right now HK is sold out on the less expensive 20000 Muitistars. Also thanks for the input about the lighter weight higher C 6S batteries for more speed with a larger prop. Are you using two bladed props or three bladed props. I generally prefer three bladed props to get my larger and heavier hulls moving and keeping them up to speed without falling off plane going through turns.

    Merry Christmas and happy holidays,
    Charlie T

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    Turn fines are very helpful to secure your turns in racing conditions (especially when you race against bigger boats … choppy water). It's a good thing if they don't touch water during straight lines (less drag).
    I use two bladed prop, but, as you said, a three bladed prop can also do a good job …

  23. #23
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    Thanks Fred,

    I will take your suggestions, and run my initial trails with the Challenger 43 - with turning fins but without the trim tabs and see how it performs. Thanks for the tip about adjusting the turning fins so that they are out of the water while going straight, but dig in going around a corner.

    I have a stock HK Pursuit that came with a SSS 3660 1620 motor and have never adjusted any tabs or turning fins in three seasons. Guess I don't like to tinker with things if they run well - especially if I'm not sure about what I'm doing. Thanks for your help.

    Charlie

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    Turn fins are very important 2nd to trim tabs
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
    --Albert Einstein

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    Mine don’t hit the water at all going straight, Hope this helps 033F6417-20ED-4DE4-9CBD-BD071CDC5503.jpg

    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
    --Albert Einstein

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    Thanks rearwheelin for your photos. The aft view will be very helpful when it comes set up time for my endurance Challenger 43.

    Charlie

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    Quote Originally Posted by tebby2 View Post
    Thanks rearwheelin for your photos. The aft view will be very helpful when it comes set up time for my endurance Challenger 43.

    Charlie
    Your welcome! I’ve learned a little over the years. I made the outer turn fin/tab combo. The fins I can duplicate if you ever need a pair hit me up .
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
    --Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by tebby2 View Post
    Hello Fred 75,

    Yes indeed, Peter was very helpful.

    Thanks for the information about Challenger 43. Interesting about your choice to eliminate trim tab usage. Upon completion construction, I will do for initial trail runs without trim tabs to see how it performs. Assuming I get the hull trimmed and balanced correctly, and the boat doesn't porpoise or act erratically, I will choose to go without them. Less equipment and hardware is always better - there are less things to break down. Do you also eliminate turning fins for less drag?

    Thanks also for the suggestion of not using the 20000 mAh batteries. The 16000 battery is less money and right now HK is sold out on the less expensive 20000 Muitistars. Also thanks for the input about the lighter weight higher C 6S batteries for more speed with a larger prop. Are you using two bladed props or three bladed props. I generally prefer three bladed props to get my larger and heavier hulls moving and keeping them up to speed without falling off plane going through turns.

    Merry Christmas and happy holidays,
    Charlie T
    Hi Charlie
    For an offshore endurance boat weight is not a disadvantage. In rough water you cannot use top speed, by rough water I mean chop that is over 6" and up to 1-1/2'. It is fine in race water too. My Osprey was running 10s 20000 mah at 65-70 kph for 20 mins.
    Trim tabs are a tuning add on. I know boats that do not use them and are extremely competitive in offshore. If a boat is trimmed right trim tabs are not needed, I will not be using them on my new boat. I find that a COG of 32% is pretty much the magic number to keep the boat running smooth, stable and balanced through rough water.
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tebby2 View Post
    Thanks rearwheelin for your photos. The aft view will be very helpful when it comes set up time for my endurance Challenger 43.

    Charlie
    Sorry for another vid , this is how my boat handles in choppy conditions. I don’t change anything on it ever , it’s set and forget. A vid you might be able to reference to when thinking of how you need your setup and the pic I post . Cheers
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
    --Albert Einstein

  30. #30
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    Hello Fred 75

    Just one last question about your HV set up. Are you using a separate battery pack to power your RX and SK HV ESC or an external BEC? The SK 130a HV v3 does not have an internal BEC. I have purchased a CC BEC 2.0 WP external BEC to use with the SK 130 HV, but am starting to have second thoughts - in that a failed external BEC could fry my electrical components including my expensive SK ESC by sending direct 12s battery pack voltage into the RX circuit. Also I have read information as to the correct method of connecting the SK 130a HV v3 anti spark (resistor) bullet plug after connecting the main battery plug to allow the ESC capacitor bank to slowly charge through the resistor wire (to prevent the spark discharge). If you are using an external BEC, are your BEC power leads connected to the ESC lead inside the resistor plug or outside the resistor plug - at the main battery connector plug. My concerns are that the spark discharge could harm the BEC when connecting the main battery connector plug.

    What are your thoughts and experience with the SK HV ESC

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