2S Dark Horse 27 set up help

[bob horowitz]

I have a Dark Horse 27 that I bought from Darin Jordan. I have it set up with a Neu 1515 .5Y 4400Kv motor. It has a 3 blade 534 prop, with a Swordfish 220 amp pro esc and 2 Revo 420 Blend GO 5000mah 2S batteries in parallel. Other than the ESC, I believe it's the same set up that Dain ran. I seem to recall that I tried it with the LVC at 3.2volts, and when that didn't work I tried it at 0, and that didn't work either. I don't remember where I had the timing set, it was last summer and I have CRS. I haven't had any luck with my ESC set up. The motor will run for a few seconds and then quit. That's on the bench, with no load, so I haven't even put it in the water. I have the SW program box and I wondering if someone can give me some programing advice, particularly timing and LVC settings,I think I had the other settings correct. I understand that with this set up it's a real high amp draw, and I'll only get about 2 minutes run time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob

[jim82]

Do you have the esc set for 2s?

[bob horowitz]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for your response. Yes, pretty sure I do. I've got a couple of batteries charging to try tomorrow. I'll hook up the program box up in the morning and go through all the settings just to be sure. Can you tell me what the timing should be set at? I was thinking that the voltage drop because of the relatively high amp load is causing the LVC to kick in and cut the power altogether. Batteries are brand new so I hope not. Any thoughts? Any solutions you can think of? I'm kind of new at this so any suggestions would really help.
Bob

[jim82]

Sounds like cell count is off other parameters should not matter making it cutoff just bench testing.

[bob horowitz]

Jim,
I'll check in the morning. I also answered my question about timing by doing a search on the forum. In another thread you stated that for a wye wound motor the timing should be between 10-15 degrees, is that correct? I sure hope you're correct about cell count. I know I was very frustrated when I tried to get it running. I may have overlooked the count.
Bob

[bob horowitz]

By the way, I really thank you for your quick response.
Bob

[jim82]

Np. I will say I am not a big swordfish fan...Lol I know they have auto cell count but it maybe thrown off ( due to great cells if reading any higher) best if what you are using to just make it default.

[MarkF]

On that hot of a motor I would use 0 deg. timing. 10 to 15 deg will burn stuff up quick if your not careful.

Mark

[bob horowitz]

Mark,
Even with it being a wye wind, set the timing at 0?
Bob

[Fluid]

I'll have to disagree with Mark, 0* will cause overheating. With a Wye wind motor the higher the amp draw the higher the timing needs to be. My N-2 Sport Hydro (another Dark Horse) runs a 4500 Kv Wye motor and I run 15 degrees without issues.


.

[MarkF]

Yea you ran a hydro and I ran a mono with the same motor. I ran 0 timing so motor didn't get as hot. Even Steve Neu recommends 0 timing to gain efficiency and less heat. 0 timing should never get you more heat. A hydro can run a lot more loose than a mono. You don't have to take my advice.

Mark

[bob horowitz]

Guys,
With the SW program box it's a moot point. The box only gives you three ranges. The low setting is 0-15 degrees. That being said, I charged some batteries this morning, hooked up the box with the esc and checked the programming. Everything seems okay. 2s battery,low(0-15) on the timing, 3 volts on the cutoff for now and the default on the frequency. I'm still having problems. I rebound my RX and TX. That seems fine. Rudder response is fine. Tried calibrating the TX and ESC and still have problems. The first time I tried I pulled the throttle, it reved up and quit, did that a couple of times same results. Then I just floored the throttle and it kept running and it seemed okay, except when I let off, it started beeping various sequences and wouldn't run again. I really think I'm doing something wrong when I try to link(calibrate) the ESC with the RX. Any, at that point I got frustrated and went and made break

[bob horowitz]

Having trouble putting all my thoughts down before software on this website times out. I appreciate all you guys helping me out. With all the expertise I'm sure we can figure this out.
Bob

[fweasel]

Do you have another ESC you can test with? I've never used a swordfish ESC before, but it seems like I read about lots of issues with them.

[bob horowitz]

I have another new SW 220 amp just like this one. Other than that, the next biggest one is only 120 amps. All my other esc's are smaller and I get them to work fine. I don't think I want to chance using one of my smaller ones on this setup. I suppose I can put bullets on the other SW 220 that is just like the one I've been trying to get working. They were bought at different times, so maybe they are from different lots. My pond is still frozen so it doesn't matter if it's not waterproofed yet. I'll give a try a little later on if no one has any other suggestions. I live in the boonies of Montana and I have to go into to town a little later on, so it will have to be later this afternoon.
Thanks to all,
Bob

[jim82]

Bro go get you a $30 flycolor 150a off ebay and you will be good

[jim82]

I have ran the hell out of 3 of them with no issuez

[bob horowitz]

I don't think a 150 amp ESC will handle the load. I just think I'm doing something wrong when I try to calibrate and link the esc and my TX. I'm going to read through the instructions again and check the threads on the esc page and try again. If it still doesn't work, I will solder bullets on the other one I have and try it. I hope I can get the first one to work because I have already cut the shrink wrap off and potted the whole unit in epoxy to waterproof it. Live and learn, try things on the bench before doing any work on them. If anyone else reads this, any help with calibrating and linking a Swordfish ESC (220 amp Pro) would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Bob

[Fluid]

Yea you ran a hydro and I ran a mono with the same motor. I ran 0 timing so motor didn't get as hot. Even Steve Neu recommends 0 timing to gain efficiency and less heat. 0 timing should never get you more heat. A hydro can run a lot more loose than a mono.....

It seems that Steve Neu can't get the timing message consistant. He posted this on RC Groups six months ago:

....One thing that gets missed is motor timing---"D" type motors need to be run a "0" or neutral timing for best efficiency where "Y" motors do well with some advance timing. Steve Neu

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...9#post35975711

[MarkF]

Jay
I have talked to Steve and he says you get the best efficiency at 0 timing. Period. You can get an extra 3 to 5 mph by adding timing but at the expense of more heat in the esc. How many sport boaters do you need to read they burned up there esc while playing with timing. They think they can just copy what the veteran does without knowing the consequence.
A .5 wye is a very low inductance motor and any esc can have a hard time reading the motor. Steve suggest raising the PWM rate can help here sometimes. Or adding more caps. But I would never start at 15 deg timing on this motor and would start at 0 before raising it to check temps. I know you know this already but many here do not. So I do not think it's a good idea to jump in to tell somebody running a .5 wye in a mono to start at 10 to 15 deg. timing because it worked for you in your hydro. My comments are aimed at sport boaters who don't know better. Not at veterans who can claim my comments aren't technically right. I know how this game works just like you.

Mark

[bob horowitz]

Okay, I think that I have narrowed down what's happening. I'm pretty sure I have the ESC calibrated correctly. I can run the motor at full throttle without any problem. If I try to run a partial throttle or change speed, it seems that the leds on my RX flash once and the throttle drops out. When I let go of the throttle, I get two beeps and the throttle is reactivated. Am I getting a low voltage to my RX because of the draw from the motor and ESC ? I'm using 2-2S Revo 5000 mah packs with a full charge. They are brand new. I would have thought that they have enough juice to run this system. Anyone have any thoughts? Should I try a separate RX battery pack? As I said before, I'm using a Hitec Lynx TX with their Proton RX. If I try a separate battery for the RX, I've read that I have to cut the red wire from the ESC to the RX, is that correct? Again, any help or ideas would greatly appreciated. I really want to get this boat running.
Regards,
Bob

[MarkF]

First off, you should never be running any motor at full throttle on the bench for more than a second or 2. Anymore could burn up the motor or the esc up. Wait till you have water to run in and try it again. Also make sure your packs are warm. If there cold, that will cause LVC to happen sooner. I think your equipment is fine.

Mark

[ray schrauwen]

What radio? Is it possible you are getting a brown out on your Rx if you're using Bec? Could you try a separate Rx pack?

Yes, you need to remove the red wire. It's easiest with an extension or if you carefully remove the whole red wire with connector from plug casing.

[ray schrauwen]

Also, after ANY AND ALL THROTTLE calibration, shut it all down and disconnect main packs, then plug back in before test or running. This is for SF escs.

[bob horowitz]

I only ran for a second or two. Running a Hitec Lynx with a Hitec Proton RX. I'm thinking that Ray is correct. I'm getting low voltage to my RX under load. I'm heading into town to see if I can pick up a RX battery pack. Slim pickings in Montana, if not I can rig up a 2S pack by making up a jumper with the appropriate connectors. Do you guys think I'm getting a brown out or I'm bumping the LVC. I'm seeing a reaction on the LEDs on my RX. That leads me to think brown out and not LVC.

[bob horowitz]

I did the shut down after calibration. Throttle seems to work fine, except for it dropping out on anything other then full throttle. Like I said before, on partial throttle, the LEDs on the RX blink once and the throttle drops out. Then I let off throttle and I get 2 beeps and the throttle is re-energized.

[ray schrauwen]

Just try an RX pack, 4 AA batteries will do.

If you crack open a 9v battery it has 6AAA batteries inside. You can remove 2 and the rest are already wired up except for the + & - mains.use some tape once they are opened up to prevent short circuits.

Don't forget to remove the red esc wire!!!

[bob horowitz]

Gotcha. Never went into town today. Have to go to work tomorrow so I'll be in town and pick something up. Will keep you posted.
Bob

[runzwithsizorz]

Just food for thought here, Your TX has had a couple of firmware updates. Your RX has an operating range of 4.8, to 35 vdc. Some servos can handle aprox. 9 volts. I have 1 boat that uses a 2S RX battery unregulated.

[bob horowitz]

Just food for thought here, Your TX has had a couple of firmware updates. Your RX has an operating range of 4.8, to 35 vdc. Some servos can handle aprox. 9 volts. I have 1 boat that uses a 2S RX battery unregulated.

Good point. I'll have to check the servo in this boat. I know it's a Spectrum. I don't think it's one that can handle higher voltage. I will check the updates on the TX as well. I can also swap in a digital servo that will handle higher voltage. I use them in most of my other boats. I knew the TX could handle higher voltage, I had pulled out the instructions last night. I just didn't think to check the servo.