Mmeu 2017 supplement rules

[Darin Jordan]

One of our guys has already burned one up after 4 laps of testing.

Lehners have a VERY narrow "sweet spot", and aren't going to have the forgiveness, or the TORQUE, of a 4-pole or 6-Pole motor. Let'em race! If they win, it won't be the motor's doing...

[Doug Smock]

Yep. We rounded up to 37mmx62mm so that hopefully fluctuations in the production of these will still be legal. The PB motor Darin posted is 36.3x61.2. What happens when it's 36.31? Illegal!

I need to fix it? Why me? I'm not doing enough for the organization already? Besides, I'm an idiot, I don't even know what "it" is !!

Because I'm an IMPBA newbie.

My "it" list
Get rid of 1/8 registration (no demand)
Get rid of the 1/8 motor list (no sense)
Allow twins in P. At least for cats at a minimum. (why not again? Nobody knows)
Get rid of the single source requirement for twin setups. (because it's dumb)

If/when this spec thing works we should have a little documentation to back it up. Then maybe do trial run of the rule set. Have the BOD review the idea the right way. Distribute it through the Propwash and such. I think this new approach will hold up where as the old way had a shelf life.

Not happening from here. And FWIW I will NOT support a rule set for P Limited in the IMPBA.It is not necessary. We have proved that!

Ok Darin.... Perhaps some of the guys just like the smell of burnt stators, they aren't actually trying to achieve higher speeds. I sit corrected. But, I do wonder how long it will take before this next batch of motors are "junk" and you guys are having this discussion again.

Just my .02 fellas. Other than a IMPBA National rule set, I have officially given myself permission not to care. And no, I am not on the edge of a cliff.

Driving on fellas. Enjoy!

[Darin Jordan]

[SIZE=5]But, I do wonder how long it will take before this next batch of motors are "junk" and you guys are having this discussion again.

Dethow, ^^^^^ Some of the "fear and speculation" I was referring too...

There won't be a "batch", Doug... You're thinking in the past.

That said, and once again, I don't give a rip if these are EVER National rules... As long as OUR club members are happy, that's good enough for me. People can choose to hinder or enhance their clubs as they see fit.

[T.S.Davis]

If we went to 61.5mm and added an external fan what's the difference? It's nothing to do. Used to run external fans on my 2030's. Just blew air across those miserable wires. That internal fan is just another piece of rotating mass for the winds to turn. Has resistance too. It has to actually move air and as such adds load to the rotor. It's not a freebie. No advantage in my mind. An external fan costs less power wise.

Sighting Neu as a source for good information on manufacturing tolerances isn't crazy. I mean he actually does know what he's doing. Ever have a really hard time getting a cooling can on? Guess how come? duhhhh This ain't NASA. We're not launching people into space. Some fudge factor will be okay. Not trying to creep the rules. Just trying to be inclusive. Both for the racers and for those that make the crap we race.

Larry J-2 Rule 1.a. "Only one pack may be used even if multiple speed controls are used." It was explained to me that "someone" (it was actually one guy) was worried somebody would find a way to have a speedo use the two packs to series the voltage inside the speedo. Insisted on single source. Never heard of it. Never seen it. Never even thought of it. A rule written for fear of something that didn't exist then and still doesn't 10+ years later. Today you can buy off the shelf boats that are designed to run separate packs to separate controllers. Not legal...............unless you run NAMBA. Then no problem.

I think the no twins in P was based on fear again. Fear that P would become dominated by twin everything. At that time and really now too on paper, P class was the where you moved to after you got done hating N classes. There was nothing in between for Joe average racer to compete in. Now we have these spec classes everyone migrates to that attract both new racers and vets. Worrying about twin P cats today is silly IMO.

John, yer' kill'n me man. We actually could provide a gauge to check dimensions. Some of our guys have serious skills and even more serious equipment they work with. Kevin probably has the gear to certify the danged things. We did talk about it.

[T.S.Davis]

[SIZE=5] But, I do wonder how long it will take before this next batch of motors are "junk" and you guys are having this discussion again.

Which batch Doug? The batch from TP, Neu, Lehner, Proboat, Aquacraft, Leopard, Turnigy, Himax, Castle, Trinity, Hobbywing, Feigao, or Hacker?

Just off the top of my head. I'm predicting it's unlikely that all those manufacturers motors will go to crap the same day. Wild speculation on my part I know.

Trying to get more speed than the guy you are racing against is not the same as trying to obtain P speeds. If you can get 70mph in the back straight on a limited mono setup you let me know. I wanna see it.

You guys have been running NAMBA limited rules at the IMPBA Spring NATS for years now. How is that showing you didn't need limited rules? You just ran rules written "by others". They're still rules.

[dethow]

If we went to 61.5mm and added an external fan what's the difference? It's nothing to do. Used to run external fans on my 2030's. Just blew air across those miserable wires. That internal fan is just another piece of rotating mass for the winds to turn. Has resistance too. It has to actually move air and as such adds load to the rotor. It's not a freebie. No advantage in my mind. An external fan costs less power wise.

I agree with all that Terry.
I think some of my disagreement with the Lehner w/fan also comes from wanting to protect a new guy with deep pockets. An experienced guy may have found that preverbal sweet spot with that Lehner and now a new guy goes and spends $300 on a motor only to bake it after 4 laps.
So I think this motor either brings possible dominance if that sweet spot is found by an experienced racer and/or brings wasting money by new and less experienced racers.
But this may all fix itself once we see what they can do. If they keep baking I'm sure a new guy will be told not to waste their money. And if someone is showing dominance we will do what's necessary to block that motor out.

[dethow]

And by the way... Terry.
If I was going to spend the money on a Lehner... I'd go with the 1930 without fan and consider an external fan. Costs less and as you said the external fan would cost less power wise.
But now that's only a 54mm long 2-pole motor. So I wouldn't do that either. The whole Lehner thing makes no sense to me. But we'll see... right?

[TRUCKPULL]

Here is an other motor to through into the mix.

Larry

[dethow]

Here is an other motor to through into the mix.

Larry

Yes...
Just warn everyone to be careful to only get the "TS-EZ 2240" that measures dia of 36mm.
They also make a "CZII 2240" and a "Viper 2240" also can be labeled as "VZ-2240" which both measure dia at 38mm.
Number alone doesn't appear to correlate with can size.

And current problem is that there are none of the "TS-EZ 2240"s available from Tenshock. Don't know if they can be found elsewhere and are available.

Hey... Maybe we should increase the tolerance to 38mm???

[TRUCKPULL]

And current problem is that there are none of the "TS-EX 2240"s available from Tenshock. Don't know if they can be found elsewhere and are available.

Do you not mean the "TS-EZ 2240"
The EZ is the EDF motor

Larry

[Ken Haines]

Hey... Maybe we should increase the tolerance to 38mm???

here is what I am picturing.....Right About Now,
Doug's ear's are ringing....lol
and his head is starting to explode

[TRUCKPULL]

And current problem is that there are none of the "TS-EZ 2240"s available from Tenshock. Don't know if they can be found elsewhere and are available.:

David
I just did a search, and filled out an order for a TS-EZ 2240 -7T- 2260kv.(I did not place the order, just looking)
This is the page that came up.
It says at the bottom 5 to 10 days

Tenshock*!**6*!**Pole*!**Brushless*!**Motor*!**EDF EZ2240*!**
Features*!**
1.CNC machined AL casing
2.Efficiency 6-Pole 9 Slots brushless motor
3.High purity copper windings making maximizes conductivity
4.Powerful sintered neodymium magnet
5.High torque and light weight
6.Rotor Kevlar package
7.High grade bearing
Details
Poles: 6
Diameter：36mm *!**
Length: 61.5mm
ØShaft: 5mm
Length shaft: 14.5mm*!**
Weight: 290 g
Max. RPM: 54.000
Max. temp: 180 °C*!**
Timing: 8-10
Mounting hole distance: 25mm
Mounting hole size: M3*4

*!**
NOTE:
Most kv of motor are in available，only few kv may need to wait about 7-10 work days to produce.
Hope you can understand.we will keep informed you about *!**the status.

I do like EDF motors, I ran a pair of them in my Twin "P" Cat
and I also have a pair of EDF 40mm X 70mm in my new "Q" twin Cat

Here is a note for everyone,
I don't why this is, but in a EDF "Y" wind motor the timing is 10 degree MAX.

This is the third company that I have seen post this for their EDF motors.
I even confirmed by E-Mail with "HET MOTORS" about this.

Larry

[dethow]

I'm seeing "item not available" on the Tenshock website.
And when I try to add one to basket it says "Your chosen quantity of the following products are not available and the delivery may delay:"
Tenshock.jpg

What website are you using? I'm using the following:
http://tenshock-motors.de/Tenshock-B...ole-TSCZ2240_2

[Doug Smock]

You guys have been running NAMBA limited rules at the IMPBA Spring NATS for years now. How is that showing you didn't need limited rules? You just ran rules written "by others". They're still rules.

Terry OMG, I'm going to take you for a walk in Atlanta. We'll bond, it will be fun.
What we have proved for the last eight years, is that we don't need a N A T I O N A L rule set on these classes! It took less than an hour via email to poll club and some Dist. members to see if we wanted to change the Limited rules for the Nats. We went with the MMEU rules because you guys have already started the change and we wanted to make it easy for you guys as we wanted you as our guests. What's not to like? Never mind, sorry I asked.

Darin I agree with you on the club deal, for me currently it's a District deal. My second term is up in Dec.

They will be running some Limited classes in a Dist. GP Race in Folkston Ga. this weekend without many of the FE regulars. They will be running Proboat and AQ motors, a lot of them with AQ speedos. They will be having a blast and the best part is they aren't even aware that this needs to be "fixed". If and when they decide the classes need to be revisited it will be discussed at our annual Dist. meeting. Any changes will go into effect the following year. No forum threads, no national rules to argue over, it doesn't get any easier!

[Doug Smock]

here is what I am picturing.....Right About Now,
Doug's ear's are ringing....lol
and his head is starting to explode

LOL Ken!

Yes the Tinnitus is at about a 8+ but I'm ok!

Is it time to race yet?!?!?

[dethow]

What website are you using? I'm using the following:
http://tenshock-motors.de/Tenshock-B...ole-TSCZ2240_2

Nevermind Larry.
I found the USA dealer website and it looks like they ARE available. Here is a link for those whom may be interested.
http://www.tenshock.com/products/rc-...ess-motor.html

[Doug Smock]

My apologies to the MMEU for buttin in on your thread. Not my place,

I'll be back up there to race no matter what you do. Like it or not, you can't deny my entry.

[dethow]

My apologies to the MMEU for buttin in on your thread. Not my place,

I'll be back up there to race no matter what you do. Like it or not, you can't deny my entry.

Don't think you were buttin Doug... You race here and this discussion is in regards to rules for this years Michigan cup.

Besides you did/said nothing wrong.

[ray schrauwen]

Here goes the neighborhood,

[ray schrauwen]

Yes...
Just warn everyone to be careful to only get the "TS-EZ 2240" that measures dia of 36mm.
They also make a "CZII 2240" and a "Viper 2240" also can be labeled as "VZ-2240" which both measure dia at 38mm.
Number alone doesn't appear to correlate with can size.

And current problem is that there are none of the "TS-EZ 2240"s available from Tenshock. Don't know if they can be found elsewhere and are available.

Hey... Maybe we should increase the tolerance to 38mm???

Perhaps rotor length and stack length not in that order per say. Others do this type of notation.

[ray schrauwen]

Here goes the neighborhood,

[T.S.Davis]

No apology needed or accepted Doug. I should have used emoticon or something. I ain't mad at ya at all. Zero zip notta.

I'm just getting tired carrying you on these rules all the time.
Bahahaha. I hope you can hear me grinning from Georgia. We need to install a relief valve on your forehead. I'll bring tools.

[Doug Smock]

No Terry I didn't think you were upset, we're good, I'm good, it's all good my brother.
Just starting feeling a little dirty for stinkin up your club thread guys, that's all.

Thanks fellas,

Let's race!

[longballlumber]

Nevermind Larry.
I found the USA dealer website and it looks like they ARE available. Here is a link for those whom may be interested.
http://www.tenshock.com/products/rc-...ess-motor.html

I am pretty sure this website is direct from tenshock direct. Any motors ordered will be shipped from outside of the US.

[dethow]

I am pretty sure this website is direct from tenshock direct. Any motors ordered will be shipped from outside of the US.

Maybe... and probably...
Difference is that I think I was on a European website that said they were not available. Prices were all in EUR.
When I ran a search this website was described as Tenshock USA and has prices in USD first with option of EUR.

Looks like Tenshock company is out of Guangzhou City, China.

None the less... it looks they can be purchased for $139.99 each (plus shipping) which doesn't look that bad with quote for 1 motor at $5.00 economy int'l shipping or $12.38 expedited int'l shipping to my zip in Michigan.

[longballlumber]

Here is an other motor to through into the mix.

Larry

I would advise staying away from these tenshock motors. They don't match the posted dimension for length. Not to meantition they do not respond to emails. Wasted money!

[dethow]

I would advise staying away from these tenshock motors. They don't match the posted dimension for length. Not to meantition they do not respond to emails. Wasted money!

Ummm. That sucks! That's pretty far off the 61.5mm they list.

[ray schrauwen]

Well...... usually I'm that guy holding the holding the hot potato. Thats a drag.