What overall length 2.5mm (.098) wire drives would you like to see?

[RaceMechaniX]

Guys,

larger 1/8" with 1/4 stub shaft wire drives are catching on in the gas market. These are very high quality assemblies and can me trimmed to length. The gas size drivelines may only be useful for big S and T boats so I have asked for a smaller system suitable for P and Q. This would be a .098 or 2.5mm wire with a 3/16" stub shaft.

What length from end to end would you like to see:

1. 12"
2. 18"
3. 24"
4. Longer than 24"

Tyler

[properchopper]

Tyler,

I voted for18". My experience (as I'm sure will agree with most others) with wire drives (which have many advantages) is that they like to be as straight as possible, e.g. minimum radius bend. That usually means a more forward motor location ; soooo a long"ish" length would be a good starting point for most P class rigs. Trimming to required length will get the correct dimension.

[T.S.Davis]

Yeah, why not just make them all long and let guys trim them to fit?

[RaceMechaniX]

That is the idea Terry, but trying to find out what is desirable and what is wasteful.
TG

[dmitry100]

How about 6mm stub shafts with 2.5mm precision/polished wire like the one from MBP :)

With at least 12 inches or so of wire that can be trimmed to fit.

That way you can use the 2.5mm MBP wire clutches.

Tyler, can you post any pics of wire setups that you have :) Theres seriously very very little data out there on how a correct wire setup should be like... especially for twin drive cats.

[T.S.Davis]

I've never seen a 6mm prop. Is that common somewhere?

The stubs from Octura could have worked but they refuse to drill all the way through the stub shaft. Renders them completely useless.

I would probably buy a 24 and trim to fit myself Tyler. I do this with flex. Buy long and keep them in my pile of stuff. Then it fits what ever boat I injure or build. Like boom tubes.

[RaceMechaniX]

Very few people probably use 6mm stub shafts. And if they are available from Jeff, no need to make them here.
I searched on MBP and could not find any clutches to speak of.
These are not mine, I am trying to get Brent interested in making the gas size wire drives in smaller sizes for us. See link here: http://jrcbd.com/forum/showthread.ph...lid+flex+drive

Unless you have a very very shallow bend, it is not going to work for twin cats.
TG

[T.S.Davis]

.098 has very little bend to it. You wont twist them off but much bending isn't gonna happen. Maybe with the motors up front a cat might work. I run .062 in some of my species but with just a sleeve bearing.

I ran .098 my first Q sport. Very low resistance. I broke the ball bearings in the strut which in turn mangled the shaft. At the northern nats no less. Ugh. Typical. Also tried it in an 1/8 scale. Built both the same winter. Failed too. Ball bearings were the real culprit.

I'm older and wiser now. Might be worth another go.

Tyler, are they using sleeve bearings on the 1/4" drives?

[RaceMechaniX]

Terry,
I believe he was using ball bearings at first, but they need to be replaced very often.
He now supplies them with bushings and that is what I would recommend.
TG

[T.S.Davis]

Makes sense. When the ball bearings go it's an epic disaster.

I gave up on bearings in my small stuff too. They work fantastic but if you run a lot of laps you'll be buying a lot of bearings. There's never any warning either.

Cluttering up your thread. Sorry Tyler.

Have you installed one any of your boats yet? I ended up with a motor position quite far forward on the Q boat to get the bend. Then mounted the batteries on each side of shaft. Worked pretty well.

[T.S.Davis]

If these are for bigger boats couldn't he just make a stepped shaft for FE?

[dmitry100]

Tyler, mind I send you a few pic(s) of the kind of bend and drive line I'm planning to do on my cat build?

3/16 - 6mm - 0.098 wire is what my shafts are like (Custom Made by Jeff Wolt).
There's about 11 inches or so of wire to play with and it bends quite easily. The motor are being mounted super close to the sponson as well... so the bend seems like it's barely there.

I always thought a small bend was actually a good thing with wire? I guess thats wrong...

I just don't want mores too far up in the hull as it will be a pain when I'm mounting lipos... which I might just charge from within the hull lol (btw, long wires on cellpro charger = bad idea?).

[dmitry100]

Why don't you guys just get Jeff to make whatever you guys want anyways?

He supplies OSE with all their shaft/wire combo products...

[RaceMechaniX]

Dmitry, I assumed your cat had the fairly aggressive motor angle like most cats I see. If you have a straight shot or slight bend you are OK. The slight bend is preferred as it reduces whipping, so do spacers in the stuffing tube to dampen the nodes and anti-nodes that try to form. PM me the pics of your cat.

Jeff Wholt makes nice hardware, but I don't believe he can make wire drives longer than 12". I believe he is using Octura stubs which are good, but not the best for all applications especially where you want more distance between the bushings/bearings in the strut.

My interest is mostly for riggers and very high speed set-ups where cable does not like to run. However, wire drives are very reliable when set-up correctly and if you build a boat knowing you will be using one the results are better.

I have a 3mm wire drive with 3/16" stub in my Q mono powered by a 2280. no issues. I also had a 5mm wire with 1/4 stub in a DF sniper powered by a 3080. Only issue was trying to get enough clamping force on the coupler.

A .125" wire with 3/16" stub would work well for a number of FE boats, but only ones where the motor was very far forward or there was very little bend. Hence I am looking at .098" where I can have more bend in the driveline.

[dmitry100]

He used quality 6mm stainless steel supplied by a good supply company... I'll try to find the brand he's using. But it's quite good I believe... and I'm sure he can make a custom non-octura stub for you if you asked. I just received another batch of wire shafts last night and they looked even better than before-- very true running.

Which spacers do you mean? Like a 2.5mm ID piece of PTFE tube that is mounted after the exit of stuffing tube to keep it waterproof ?
I made one that is held on by silicone tubing... was thinking to use something more stronger like a piece of carbon fiber epoxied with that onto the hull attached to the spacer that the wire would pass through but figured the flexible silicone tubing would absorb vibration better.

Here's the MBP wire clutches I was mentioning about-- this is a 2.5mm one but they also carry 1.5 and 2mm:
http://mbp-rc.de/Praezisions-Rostfre...25mm-49cm-lang

I'm using their 2mm clutch drilled for 098 wire by Jeff.

[T.S.Davis]

Tyler, you would not believe how much grief I get for forward mounting my motors.

[RaceMechaniX]

Terry, I can imagine.

Dmitry, the spacers are as you described 2.5mm ID, 1/4" OD and approximately 10mm long. They are placed every 6" inside the stuffing tubes.
There is a translation issue between the German and English definition of a clutch. What you have linked is the precision coupler, which I am very familiar with. Koppel verus Kupplung. I am not sure why Joe calls it a clutch.

Tyler

[dmitry100]

Tyler, Oh ok... I guess it's just me calling them couplers.

I actually only have 2.5mm ID / 4mm OD PTFE teflon that I was planning to place in only one place. My wire is actually 093 not 098.
But anyway, I was looking for 1/4 OD Teflon spacers all over the place and can't find anything like that... it would be a lot better.

Where can I buy those spacers from? Placing them every 6" sounds like a good idea.

[kfxguy]

Tyler, Oh ok... I guess it's just me calling them couplers.

I actually only have 2.5mm ID / 4mm OD PTFE teflon that I was planning to place in only one place. My wire is actually 093 not 098.
But anyway, I was looking for 1/4 OD Teflon spacers all over the place and can't find anything like that... it would be a lot better.

Where can I buy those spacers from? Placing them every 6" sounds like a good idea.

I cut mine out of brass tubing that slides inside the stuffing tube and then drill a small hole in the brass stuffing tube and solder it in through the hole you drilled.

[RaceMechaniX]

Tyler, Oh ok... I guess it's just me calling them couplers.

I actually only have 2.5mm ID / 4mm OD PTFE teflon that I was planning to place in only one place. My wire is actually 093 not 098.
But anyway, I was looking for 1/4 OD Teflon spacers all over the place and can't find anything like that... it would be a lot better.

Where can I buy those spacers from? Placing them every 6" sounds like a good idea.

Just the Teflon tube and cut it to length. Use a smaller piece of hard tubing to press the bushing in place along the length of the stuffing tube.
McMaster carries a 1/4" OD, 1/8" ID PTFE tube: http://www.mcmaster.com/#8547k23/=13ktxz6

[dmitry100]

If say it's held on by the tubing that goes over the stuffing tube and teflon spacer ... would that be just as good? Or should it be free from any movement...

[RaceMechaniX]

No. It needs to be in the stuffing tube, not just the ends

[dmitry100]

So I'm trimming my wire down to around 10-11 inches ... I would only need just one of those spacers in the middle? That would pretty much make it water tight I'd assume.

Is teflon lining still needed at all for the stuffing tube? I was gonna use 7mm ID for the stuffing tube with 5.5mm ID teflon lining (the one used for 5mm flex).
But now I feel none of that is needed and should just go with a smaller stuffing tube in general without lining... like 1/4 ID or so.

I'm just hoping my click drives would still be slightly adjustable. Therefore I was thinking to drill motor mount screw holes so that it makes the motor movable up or down to match any negative adjustment in the drive.

[RaceMechaniX]

In your case you would want one at either end and one in the middle. No need for Teflon, just plain brass tubing. There is still some clearance between the bushing and shaft so its not watertight.
If your shaft length is 10" there should be enough length to allow some bend. You may need to move the bushing that is closest to the strut further up towards the motor if it binds.

[jwohlt]

Sorry I have not been on here for some time.

I do make all sizes of stubs, wire and lengths. The latest test was running 093 on Spartan. Works great. Most of what I seem to make anymore is custom drives.

I have now made them for nitro and they are working well...who would have guessed. Couplers are the issue but we have been making some custom adapters to make them work.

Just made Dmitry some 6mm with 3/16" stubs that were 114 mm long. No, I do not just use Octura. Just made a new cable assembly for the Traxxas Cat with 150 cable.

If you have the new promarine cat I know a 078 wire drive will make it better...just has a little bit longer prop shaft.

I make wire drives up to 34"

Thanks...just thought I would chime in here since it has been a while. Glad to see everyone is doing well with some fun new setups and toys.

[jwohlt]

I see you are talking about bearing struts. I have all but given up on the smaller stuff as well. Billy Oxidean still uses mine and swears by them but there has to be a better way. I have some ideas for a cartridge bearing assem that could be easy. I also think just a bearing at the strut end and a bushing at the nose end is a good idea.

Also, larger struts are fine with the roller bearings but they are large. You also have to use a hardened shafts on roller bearings.

[RaceMechaniX]

Hello Jeff, good to hear you chime in and thanks for mentioning what you can do.
A couple of questions:
Can you produce stub shafts in the region of 4-5" long?
Can you get metric wire instead of US standard, for example 2.5mm (.098") or 3mm (.118)? As you mentioned collets are the major limiting component and some very nice collets are available for metric size wire.
How deep can you drill into the stub shaft? For the power levels I am cranking out I find 1.5" is the minimum insertion depth required.

BTW, I went 143mph using bushings. I have machined by own ball bearing struts, but got tired of replacing $50 worth of bearings everything the shaft bent or threw a blade.

TylerCouplers.jpg

[dmitry100]

Tyler, http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/overview...ng-Steel-Wires
They carry metric wire between 0.8mm to 5mm.

Typically that's where most (DE) guys get their stuff. But I'll ask a few guys and see if there's any better suppliers.

[oscarel]

Very few people probably use 6mm stub shafts. And if they are available from Jeff, no need to make them here.
I searched on MBP and could not find any clutches to speak of.
These are not mine, I am trying to get Brent interested in making the gas size wire drives in smaller sizes for us. See link here: http://jrcbd.com/forum/showthread.ph...lid+flex+drive

Unless you have a very very shallow bend, it is not going to work for twin cats.
TG

Tyler, glad to see you're working with Brent! I've been using his shafts in a T hydro and cat with great results. If you need any help "pushing" him let me know and I'll do what I can. He's a great guy and his work is top notch.

[RaceMechaniX]

Brent has been easy to work with thus far, if he is on the fence I will let you know if a small push is needed.
I have his SFD'd in my gas whiplashes.