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Thread: Darin's RECOIL 26 "N2-Offshore" Modiciations

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    Default Darin's RECOIL 26 "N2-Offshore" Modiciations

    Well, in traditional form, I can't leave well enough alone!

    Received my Recoil 26, took it out of the box, and started the modifications.

    The Plan: Setup the Recoil 26 to be a legal NAMBA N2-Offshore Racer.

    NOTE: "Self-Righting" hulls are legal in NAMBA, but using the Self-Righting feature during a race isn't. HOWEVER, As I'm finding out about some hulls, like this one... Often, Self-Righting hulls have another feature: They don't tend to go UPSIDE DOWN in the first place! So, on we go with the transformation!

    01.jpg

    First Order of Business, Add some control surfaces to stabilize the hull at speed. I added a second set of Trim-Tabs by taking another stock set and removing the turn-fins from them. Pretty basic.
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    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    That should be a fun little bugger !
    .NAMBA20...Caterpillar UL-1, P-Spec OM29, P-Mono DF33, P-Spec JAE, Aussie 33" Hydro-LSH, Sprintcat CC2028 on 8s, PT SS45 Q Hydro, PS295 UL-1 power, OSE Brothers Outlaw QMono 4-sale, Rio 51z CC2028 on 8s

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    Knowing the NAMBA rules as I do, I recognized that the strakes were not technically legal. They were quite concave, and there are limits to how much concavity they can have. Plus, in my experience, concave strakes make for "silly" handling at speeds. So, I filled them in using some lightweight, water-resistant Featherfill, carefully applied with a flat blade to get them leveled out. Took about 20-minutes to apply and another 30-minutes or so of careful block-sanding once set, and they were pretty much ready to go.

    20160220_054709.jpg

    Another thing I've learned about Monos is that running the strakes all the way to the back, on a smaller boat that is likely way over-powered, tends to lead to a boat that is way too light on the water. Ray Fuller used to say, when referring to the handling of a Mono, that "part of the hull MUST stay in contact with the water". In order to keep the last couple of inches of the keel in touch with the surface, I removed the lower strakes approximately 4" forward. This is as far forward as I could without having to redo too much on the interior.

    BEFORE removing the strakes, I filled in the recesses on the INSIDE of the hull with Epoxy and Milled Fiber, then laminated some light glass over the top of that to hold it in place. You WILL break through the hull when removing these strakes, and this prevents a hole.

    20160221_122145.jpg

    Once that was set, some simply sanding in my disk and belt sander, followed by some finish-up hand sanding, and they were removed.

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    Last edited by Darin Jordan; 04-01-2016 at 11:04 AM.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    With the hull ready, I decided I wanted more turn-fin, so I took a set of IM31 turn fins and some L brackets I had from another project, and simply bolted them on. Removed the original fins, of course.

    20160330_201757.jpg

    You'll note that I replaced the rudder as well. This was NOT necessary, but I screwed up the stock one trying to modify it to get a better pin-fit. Ended up putting an assembly together from spare parts I had laying around from other development projects, etc. Still has slop, and has WAY too much Wedge angle, but for now this will work.

    20160219_210434.jpg
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    That pretty much takes care of the hull. I'm going to just run the stock strut and bracket. I did replace the flex cable with one I made. It's a .150" cable, but the propshaft length doesn't allow for the range of props I wanted to try, so I built my own. Again, not necessary, but I'm looking ahead.

    Now, onto the power system.

    First, I replaced the Radio System with, what else, Spektrum. Put in an MR200 and am using my DX4R-Pro. Boom. Done.

    Also, replaced the steering servo with a stock servo out of my Zelos 36. The Zelos Servo is 148 oz-in and is digital, and is also a bit faster. A little bigger too. Can't have too much servo, in my opinion.

    All just drop into the stock locations.

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    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    For power, I pulled out the stock outrunner, which really helps the self-righting feature work, as well as the stock ESC. Might find their way into another project at some point.

    20160217_184448.jpg

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    I replaced the ESC with a stock Dynamite/Pro Boat 120A unit out of the IM31. To fit this, note that I had to remove the lip at the front of the stock ESC Tray. Just broke off the edges using some pliers.

    ESC_Update.jpg

    ESC_Update_2.jpg
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    For motors, I selected the TP 3630 in an appropriate KV for N2-Offshore (2S, up to 10,000mAh). I'm retaining the stock weighted coupler, as it'll help the self-righting feature continue to work, hopefully, with the in-runner motor and an appropriately sized set of batteries (the weight on the left side is what helps in this regard.)

    Simply bolted the motor to the stock motor mount, attached the flywheel, and reinstalled.

    20160326_191843.jpg


    That's about it. Bolted everything in place, installed a 2S1P 6600mAh pack, and she's ready to test.

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    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    First test was successful. Took the boat, as pictured above, to work yesterday and gave it a shakedown. I wasn't able to video it actually running, as I was alone, but I did capture the self-righting tests. It's not quite a slick as the original setup, but it does flip over:

    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Another try:

    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    That's it for the moment. I'll try to get some video of the boat running.

    I'm happy to report that it does run VERY well. With the smallish X537/3 on there, it was hitting a legit 40mph or so and was rock stable. Turns VERY well to the left. To the right, if you turned too hard, it would pop the prop out of the water and hook a bit. We'll work on tuning that out.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Good stuff Darin.

    What did you decide to try for KV on the TP motor? I have a couple options I've been tossing around but nothing that I think is great. Mostly too hot. haha I can't run my 1515/.5y in offshore. A tic much.
    Noisy person

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    Good stuff Darin.

    What did you decide to try for KV on the TP motor? I have a couple options I've been tossing around but nothing that I think is great. Mostly too hot. haha I can't run my 1515/.5y in offshore. A tic much.
    David Newland formula for Offshore... ~3600KV-ish... Mine is a TP 3630-3Y, which is 3480KV. There is a little bit hotter one, the TP 3630-5D, which is 3861KV, but I wanted to keep it a bit mild, not knowing exactly how the hull would react to 2S2P 10,000mAh. Also like the way the power systems react on Y-Winds vs. D-Winds.

    I'm hoping to get buy with a little less battery. Also, I'm hoping that the hull itself will just run and run, and could make up for lack of shear speed with handling and staying upright in questionable water.

    I'd rather be able to PEG the throttle and just steer the boat at a reasonable speed, than overpower and have to manage both a throttle AND navigation at the same time. Lap times improve when you can do that. There IS the concept of having TOO much power and TOO fast of a setup.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    With the lower KV you'll be able to put more blade in the water too. With all the turns in offshore getting out of them matters.
    Noisy person

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    Finally got some real testing on my modified Pro Boat Recoil 26. This is a TP3630 motor on a 2S 5000 mAh Thunder Power 65C pack. Pack is old and was pulling down in Voltage pretty bad, so speeds aren't where the will be with better cells.

    Still, the boat rips and is seriously difficult to get to go upside down.

    Need to give it another go with better cells. There is another 1,100 RPM or so I'm missing with these old batteries. New ones should liven it right up.

    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Complete parts list please

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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    Yes could you please list all the parts you used?? Thanks

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    Well... the N2-Offshore motor just sold. Never ended up racing it do to just too many classes to run at the Nats.

    Maybe P-LTD Offshore??

    20170104_181318.jpg
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    it would be fast that's for sure, might be a challenge to keep it keel side down in a 4 min offshore heat with bigger boats though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShaughnessy View Post
    it would be fast that's for sure, might be a challenge to keep it keel side down in a 4 min offshore heat with bigger boats though.
    Mike, having run this... there is another benefit to the hull design lending itself to be "self-righting"... It tends to NOT go upside down in the first place!

    Now, per the rules, you can't USE the self-righting feature (boat flips... sits there... you blip the throttle a few times and it eventually rights...)... HOWEVER... If you NEVER stop... If you are at full-speed, like you usually are when the boat flips, and it flips over and you just power through and get it back upright WITHOUT it ever losing speed or position or lane, etc... well.

    Basically what I'm saying is that this hull seems to like to stay upright, and if you does flip over, if you are at speed, it tends to just flip right back upright and you keep going. :)
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Darin, whats the blue around the end bell and the motor mount?

    Also, the boat will only self right with an outrunner. I could never get it to self right otherwise, which is why we engineered the weighted flywheel. If you flip it, you'll be dean on the water for sure, but like you mentioned, flipping it is nearly impossible.

    Really fun boat at the beach. It jumps really well off the waves.
    Rafael Lopez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael_Lopez View Post
    Darin, whats the blue around the end bell and the motor mount?

    Also, the boat will only self right with an outrunner. I could never get it to self right otherwise, which is why we engineered the weighted flywheel. If you flip it, you'll be dean on the water for sure, but like you mentioned, flipping it is nearly impossible.

    Really fun boat at the beach. It jumps really well off the waves.
    That's high-temp tape holding on the temp probe for the Spektrum Telemetry on the SR4000T RX.

    Mine self-rights, or at least it did with the TP motor in it on 2S2P (10,000mAh total). I haven't tried it with this PB setup. Takes a couple of blips, but honestly, I'm not setting it up worrying about self-righting. My experience has been that, at speed, it doesn't tend to stay UPSIDE DOWN if it does flip.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    so basically it's like legal cheating due to verbiage which makes it not cheating ha ha. also how can you race a plastic hull? Abs means absolutely no racing
    still waiting for the video with the PB set up.

    I get what you are saying but I think you might have some grumpy people if they see your boat doing barrel rolls and keep going despite not being dead for 5 seconds or actually "using " the self righting feature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShaughnessy View Post
    I get what you are saying but I think you might have some grumpy people if they see your boat doing barrel rolls and keep going despite not being dead for 5 seconds or actually "using " the self righting feature.
    The rules are very specific, and this boat doesn't actually have any "self righting feature"... it just happens to be ABLE to self right. It's all internal, using a flywheel and battery placement.

    I write rules... BRING IT! :)
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Video posted from above... Hard to keep it upside down...


    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    ok self righting ability. I break rules... what ? No doubt it's legal, but there will still be racers who get but hurt.

    do you think it'd be much faster on 4s and a limited motor vs the set up in the video?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShaughnessy View Post
    ok self righting ability. I break rules... what ? No doubt it's legal, but there will still be racers who get but hurt.
    Well, it's an RTR Hull... Everyone has the equal ability to buy, build, and race all this publicly available race equipment. It's not my job, or desire, to tender to my competitions "feelings"... There is nothing illegal, in any way, about this hull, or this setup.

    do you think it'd be much faster on 4s and a limited motor vs the set up in the video?
    Yes... Will be able to run a much more appropriately sized prop, which, as it turns out, will help keep the boat upright even better.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darin Jordan View Post
    There is nothing illegal, in any way, about this hull, or this setup.
    What WOULD be illegal is if I stopped the boat for any length of time to self-right it. THAT is what the rules prevent.

    But, just driving it for 4-Min, and it doesn't go upside down... that's just clean racing, just like any other boat that is on the course. The fact that this boat isn't a prone to go upside down is just a benefit of the design and balance of the package. And boats flip and land upright and keep going ALL THE TIME during these races, without penalty, so nothing new there either...
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darin Jordan View Post
    Another try:

    5. With the exception of boats run in the ECO Specialty Class, boats that are capable of
    self-righting are not eligible for competition. If the boats self-righting design can be
    disabled or otherwise rendered useless, then the Contest Director may allow it to.

    So I started digging, unless I'm not understanding this correctly it actually is an illegal boat. If you removed the flywheel and turned the boat upside down and you were unable to make it self right then design would be disabled and it could be allowed.
    compete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShaughnessy View Post
    5. With the exception of boats run in the ECO Specialty Class, boats that are capable of
    self-righting are not eligible for competition. If the boats self-righting design can be
    disabled or otherwise rendered useless, then the Contest Director may allow it to.

    So I started digging, unless I'm not understanding this correctly it actually is an illegal boat. If you removed the flywheel and turned the boat upside down and you were unable to make it self right then design would be disabled and it could be allowed.
    compete.
    You might be right... but it's not a flywheel, it's a coupler (all one piece), and there isn't anything about the hulls features that make it roll back over, other than the battery placement, so I still see a LOT of gray there.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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