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Thread: Mah resitrictions

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUCKPULL View Post
    Terry

    What about the HV Cells they are way above 3.70V nominal.

    Larry
    Yes please! Need an opinion or call on these. I see Hyperion is really pushing those.

  2. #62
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    I have 4 year old Turnigy 5800's I use in my p mono and I know they don't take 5800mah, 5000 at best. I have one set of revo packs than could be charged to higher than 4.2 except I don't have a charger to do this and have no plan on getting one. Even when the 5800s were new they did not compare to thunder power packs in almost same boat that Randall Thomas still owns. Randall still runs the old TP packs that Steve R. sold him with the boat.

    Mah means much less when it comes to cheaper lipo's.

    Sanctioned races, rules. Club racing is up to the club.
    Nortavlag Bulc

  3. #63
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    HV are why I was checking voltages. The "nominal" designation will likely go away with the next iteration of the power spec. That change will come when the cap is raised on the charged cell voltage. That's going to evolve when HV becomes more common than LV cells.

    I've been told by multiple manufacturers that an HV cell charged only to 4.2 volts is pointless. That I'll not experience any gain. I would have thought maybe I was being sold a line of BS but I've even run some experimental cells and not found more performance so who knows really.

    So, as long as you only charge to 4.2......I think there was some variation built into the rule..........then you will be allowed to run in MI. IMPBA doesn't have the nominal wording at all. Just the max charge per cell. Which is what NAMBA should be. We did add the charge voltage in there. We just didn't ditch the nominal yet.

    I think of it as a transition phase. This way we don't turn away guys trying ro ready themselves for the next generation but also dont hand them some massive advantage over guys that already own a crate of cells either.

    I personally feel that the spec should be like IMPBA. Max charge x cell count and that's it. Kinda above my pay grade though. Haha

    Still the twins though........can't figure that part out in my head. I'm not sure length is enough of a limit to make a monster twin unrealistic.
    Noisy person

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Smock View Post
    Just because you mentioned it.
    Attachment 141622

    Mill and six.
    I had so much fun on this course. Was able to run it with my Cheetah. Neu 1521, had 4 2s 6500 mah packs, 2 in series for 4s 6500 mah on both sides then in parallel to make 13,000 mah!!!

    So much fun....
    Caution: Does not play well with others!

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post

    Still the twins though........can't figure that part out in my head. I'm not sure length is enough of a limit to make a monster twin unrealistic.
    The IC guys use max. displacement, or a separate engine class with max. displacement.

    I have an opinion or two on twins and FE that I'll share with you in Atl. if your interested. I don't really want to kick that turd here.lol
    MODEL BOAT RACER
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjcast View Post
    I had so much fun on this course. Was able to run it with my Cheetah. Neu 1521, had 4 2s 6500 mah packs, 2 in series for 4s 6500 mah on both sides then in parallel to make 13,000 mah!!!

    So much fun....
    Very cool!

    Is the tank close to empty after or how much left?
    Nortavlag Bulc

  7. #67
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    You guys need to be careful as you just admitted to violating the capacity rules in NAMBA. Q and lower are limited to 10Ah total, S and T are limited to 12Ah total. While this may be OK for club running, this won't fly at nationals or larger events. Just saying........
    Tyler Garrard
    NAMBA 639/IMPBA 20525
    T-Hydro @ 142.94mph former WR

  8. #68
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    Off with their heads!!!!

    Lifetime ban!!!!!!!

    We will have to have Ray branded "IMPBA Only" on his forehead.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaceMechaniX View Post
    You guys need to be careful as you just admitted to violating the capacity rules in NAMBA.
    Not sure I saw that. Mostly just guys complaining about being stuck at 10k for Q. That setup Tom mentioned was at an IMPBA event.
    Noisy person

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    ......................

  11. #71
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    When it comes right down to it you have no idea how many racers if any are violating the cap. rule. How could you??
    MODEL BOAT RACER
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  12. #72
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    Prop down and stay within the mah rule limits
    Cheers, Jay.

  13. #73
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    Was right at 20%.

    This was at an IMPBA event, so no mah restrictions
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaceMechaniX View Post
    You guys need to be careful as you just admitted to violating the capacity rules in NAMBA. Q and lower are limited to 10Ah total, S and T are limited to 12Ah total. While this may be OK for club running, this won't fly at nationals or larger events. Just saying........
    I'll never catch guys like you Tyler, no matter how many mah I carry. The reason I mentioned it was to be open and honest. P mono for me is more about just trying to get around the pins without hitting anyone. I never charge them past 90% and they are 25c-35c. I bought them originally before I came to any Michigan/NAMBA event because I was always running IMPBA races before. I think this will be their 6th season. When I run my 2 year old dinogys 5000's its much faster, better cells, lighter. Limited budget, I run what I have. All other classes are 10k or less. This boat is now retired to limited class racing where I'll us the same packs just only 1 of them. If I get my new p mono done Somme year, it'll be 10k max. I'm more guilty of being nasty cheap than at racing cheat.
    Nortavlag Bulc

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjcast View Post
    Was right at 20%.

    This was at an IMPBA event, so no mah restrictions
    Thanks Tom.
    Nortavlag Bulc

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaike5 View Post
    Prop down and stay within the mah rule limits
    Cheers, Jay.
    Actually I do prop down. I'm very conservative with props. My goal 6 years ago was to see how long some of the cheapest cells would last for P mono. So far I'm very happy with these cheap cells.
    Nortavlag Bulc

  17. #77
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    Your doing well Ray, I'm on my third set of 4s 5000's for P , My giant power have been the best by far . the 30c and 50c have Been discharged/ neutralized and chucked .

    Cheers, Jay

  18. #78
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    Hey guys,
    Good topic and thread (so far). I agree we need to address it, I'm just not sure how we should go about it.

    The 2-lap at Legg gave me a lot of data to work through. You wouldn't believe the power levels being pushed through the P hydro. At the same time the Q boat was basically in heat race trim running sub 8 second laps with plenty of capacity to run the mill and a mile+. P boat carried 6000 mah, the Q boat carried 6600mah.

    The nominal voltage wording can go. I'm leaning towards scrapping capacity limits but adding a max pack weight. I don't agree that leaving the energy storage wide open is a good idea. That being said, I'm not making the decisions, just recommendations. I freely admit to being one of the guys who will happily walk through those gaps in the rules, I will never use the "that wasn't the intent" argument.

    I'll be home next Monday, give me some time to re-read the rules and think about it. I also really want to dig into my data logs to make sure what I think I'm seeing is real.
    Brian "Snowman" Buaas
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  19. #79
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    We haven't even been reduced to name calling yet. So.......................slacker! What have you been doing? Besides setting some spooky fast times? That doesn't count.
    Noisy person

  20. #80
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    It is probably time for an amendment to our NAMBA's FE rules change with the current crop of batteries. I will likely write a proposal after speaking with Brian.

    What I have noticed is most "5000" cells are actually 5100 or higher capacity cells with a 5000mAh sticker. I recently tested a new battery that was labeled as a 5100mAh pack. Over 5 cycles it averaged 4970mAh between 3.7V/cell and 4.2V/cell. Overcharging conventional cell and HV cells typically add 250-500mAh per 5000mAh pack from my testing. For example charging to 4.35V over 4.25V.

    While this may make minimal difference in heat racing, it does make a difference in timed offshore races and some time trial events. With all the variations in cell sizes it easy to slap a 5000mAh sticker on a 5800mAh cell. As Brian mentioned using a cell weight may be the easiest to level the playing field and it's easy to tech. High density cells like HK's Heavy duty packs may have greater power potential with a more limited capacity while a TP "lite" 25C pack may have more capacity for the same weight but cannot deliver the power potential as the Heavy Duty cells.

    TG
    Tyler Garrard
    NAMBA 639/IMPBA 20525
    T-Hydro @ 142.94mph former WR

  21. #81
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    The 16.9 with the P hydro was crazy.

    Other than that, 5 week grand jury duty. 5-6 cases a day, all felonies all the the time! You just can't bleach some of that stuff out of your mind.

    Built a few new molds. Spent a lot of time on prop development. Being Dad every day and working on the house. Normal stuff.

    Any of you guys going to make it out for the Nats?
    Brian "Snowman" Buaas
    Team Castle Creations
    NAMBA FE Chairman

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by raptor347 View Post
    Any of you guys going to make it out for the Nats?
    Spotta. 3 of us planning to make the trip out for the NATS. So far that is. Should be a hoot. That jury duty thing sucks. Necessary as a citizen and all that but ugh. You can't un-see or un-hear stuff.

    16.9 is crazy. Reeling in Truex .01 second at a time from here. Think you have the speed but just need a better line or is it a combo?

    Down side to a max weight per cell would be that we would once again have a different rule set from IMPBA. Not saying I'm against it either way but something to consider I think. I'd prefer any cross over racers either way not have to re-think their stuff to go racing. It's already annoying the way it is now. They're not finding the open cap to be an issue but they also don't have any rules for FE offshore so they wouldn't see it.

    Maybe that's the answer. 12k for everything and no cap if your running offshore. Just thinking out loud.
    Noisy person

  23. #83
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    You don't need a gas tank the size of the Titanic to race offshore (P-Limited in this case) I run a single, boring, cheap Turnigy 5800 25C in my stock Revolt and have no issues finishing/winning with about 20% (ish) left over. Even more if the conditions are rougher.

    Stick with IMPBA "limits" so we can all get along.

  24. #84
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    http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/fefor...rune=-1&page=2

    Just in case anyone wants to review. lol

  25. #85
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    Doug are you going to make it to Huntsville next Week?
    Tyler Garrard
    NAMBA 639/IMPBA 20525
    T-Hydro @ 142.94mph former WR

  26. #86
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    Hey Tyler,
    No sir, that one fell too close to the Spring Nats.
    A few of us are planning to make the trip later in the year though.

    Good luck! You should have plenty of room to stretch her legs now if the weather cooperates.
    MODEL BOAT RACER
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  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Smock View Post
    http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/fefor...rune=-1&page=2

    Just in case anyone wants to review. lol
    Thanks Doug

    A lot of old memories their.

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  28. #88
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    Just went back and read some of those old posts. It was a dark hateful time for FE. We all typed some mean spirited crap. Interesting that some of names that were the most belligerent then still are. The same abrasive rhetoric from some members of the racing community back then can be found here too. It's also really sad. We've lost some good people since I've been playing with toy boats. Some quit. Some have passed on. I'm grateful that FE racing survived. I'm also thrilled that I'm not the chairman.

    One thing that I caught that I posted back 8 or so years ago was that I was against anything that I thought would further divide FE. I'm a member of both organizations. I race with both organizations. If any changes are made to either organizations battery spec can we please have a conversation about keeping them similar? I don't care if it's just the IMPBA chair calls the NAMBA chair and they cook up something sane. Just so long as they are similar. Discuss it privately on the phone with people those guys trust. Whatever. Just keep them similar. Re-thinking setups is a nuisance.

    I'm okay with multiple organizations. When in Rome, hang out with some Romans.

    "Oh, you're in Rome? Go find some Chinese people to hang out with"
    "There are almost no chines people in Rome so I guess I'll just stay in my room"

    Makes no sense.

    Having a different rule structure for each organization is stupid. Maybe "stupid" is too harsh. Okay, how about foolish? It would be different if we had car racing numbers but we're a tiny population that actually wants to race. We have to stick together.
    Noisy person

  29. #89
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    I have no problems with the mah limit but thats me.. In plim offshore i can burn 8000 mah.. And in p offshore i have to prop down to come in at 2% left..but thats the fun of it

  30. #90
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    Just to put in my $0.02... I've looked at a LOT of battery curves and loads over the past couple of years. I can definitively tell you, with data to clearly back it up, that more mAh means more loaded voltage. It's that simple. The more you have, the less voltage suppression you get. There may be a practical limit. I'm not sure, but there certainly is a benefit to more.

    Nothing shows this more clearly than on my 1-Cell SAW setups. I self limited my setup to 5000mAh, to try to keep in the spirit of how the Europeans run their events (battery cell weight limits), so I could see how my performance would compare. NO extra solder joints, no extra wire, etc... Just on cell, a + and a - tab, and a power system.

    NOW, I will also say that having the DEFINED limits that we presently do makes it hard to find cells sometimes... 5000's aren't the "norm" out there, where the RC CAR/TRUCK market drives things, and they keep creeping the sizes up... 5300mAh, 5700mAh... etc. So finding combos can be difficult.

    Bottom line, though, is that more mAh means more Voltage under Load, which means more speed. That's just the way it is.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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