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Thread: Mah resitrictions

  1. #1
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    Default Mah resitrictions

    Okay, this will be fun. Brian's first "what fer?"

    I know why we included MAH restrictions back when the Lipo cells were proposed. That limit was included to appease the doom and gloom "we're all gonna die" gang. Some also thought that all classes would be dominated by massive mah. IMPBA went with max charged voltage but no mah limits. So if you had a pair 5200's for a class you were still fine but if you race NAMBA.....hosed. Best I can tell, it hasn't made a lick of difference to IMPBA. I asked and I've raced both organizations.

    https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/....php?53696-Mah

    See....I did ask.

    My opinion has changed over time. I was the anti-big mah camp. All I could see was the cost of 2P and a speedo that could turn a million amps. Tech has evolved and become much more accessible. I think now that with the length restrictions you can only carry so much weight before you've built a submarine instead of a boat.

    So does anyone have a legitimate reason to limit NAMBA class mah? Has anyone ever checked it at a race? What a pain in the a$$ if we did.

    Is it time to move on from mah limits in NAMBA? Opinions welcomed.
    Noisy person

  2. #2
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    if you could use 10000 mah you could get 2 heats on one pack therefore cutting down your charging and number of batteries .hough the first run would probably be better than the second run.
    "Our society strives to avoid any possibility of offending anyone except God.
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  3. #3
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    Terry,

    i have recently been thinking about the same thing. Many batteries now at 5200 and greater. 2p puts us over the 10k limit.

  4. #4
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    Ditch the limit....theres no way anyone would use 10000mah in a six lap heat...if people want to carry more (and more potential weight) , who cares...if anything it will just keep batteries happier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post

    So does anyone have a legitimate reason to limit NAMBA class mah? Has anyone ever checked it at a race?

    Is it time to move on from mah limits in NAMBA? Opinions welcomed.
    No, no, yes.
    I'm glad you brought this up Terry. As you know Don and I had to re tool to race the Michigan Cup last year.

    You're right about racing in the IMPBA, capacity hasn't been an issue in any way shape form or fashion.

    I'd love to see it go away before the Michigan Cup. I really hated putting Zippy labels on my Hyperion batteries last year.
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  6. #6
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    I used to get it but not so much anymore. It's just something else to think about when choosing batteries too. I like to pick cells I can use for a bunch of classes. 5600mah packs would be really versatile.
    Noisy person

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    Doug, I'll give you a call on my way home.
    Noisy person

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    I looked at 10000 mah 4s and 5000 mah 4s the 10K are about 8 ounces heavier
    "Our society strives to avoid any possibility of offending anyone except God.
    Billy Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayR View Post
    Terry,

    i have recently been thinking about the same thing. Many batteries now at 5200 and greater. 2p puts us over the 10k limit.

    Agreed..
    makes the 10k limit hard to do with the new labels we see on our packs ... some not all
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  10. #10
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    When NAMBA switched from 4.20 to 4.23. A 5000 pack is basically a 5100 to 5200 mAH. If you put 2 5000 packs in parallel, you're basically running 10200 mAH. So you might as well just throw out the milliamp rule.

  11. #11
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    IMPBA does have a weight limit though. 24#. You quickly come up against it in an open 10s boat. So for the larger boats there is a Sudo limit. Terry while your at it what about the new HV batteries? How are clubs handling that issue? I have club guys buying them and then I explain if they travel they can't use them.


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    Terry

    What about Offshore classes.

    We will end up with Full "P" & "Q" ETC boats with larger capacity batteries to get 4 1/2 Min..

    Or a 36" cat with twins and 10,000 per motor???????

    I have been fighting for almost a year to make my twin "P" Cat run on 10,000 max for Offshore - 4 1/2 Min.
    I finally got it running at about 55 to 58 for 4 1/2 min. using about 90% of 10,000.

    Larry
    Last edited by TRUCKPULL; 03-17-2016 at 12:42 AM.
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
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    Doug, what does IMPBA do with twins? That's the only hang up I can think of. A 39" cat with twin 1527/1y and 10k per side would be madness.
    Noisy person

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    For that matter, how about a twin Ricco Superboat? Might be tough to get under the weight limit though.
    Noisy person

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    Terry

    In IMPBA any number of motors are allowed in "Q" and above.

    Also in IMPBA they do not run Offshore the same way as we do in NAMBA

    At all of the races that I have attended in IMPBA, they set an Offshore coarse up and run like 8 laps,
    So it is not the same as trying to run 4 1/2min. on 10,000mAmp's in NAMBA

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

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    Gotcha. So Mah aren't really an issue. I don't want to see any classes become "must run twins" to win. Have to think on that.

    Offshore in Atlanta runs well over 4 minutes because the course is ginormous. 6 laps and a mill takes over 4 minutes. Closer to mid 5 minutes. Forget about what ever offshore setup you've devised for NAMBA. It wont work on the Atlanta course.
    Noisy person

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    Doug, what does IMPBA do with twins? That's the only hang up I can think of. A 39" cat with twin 1527/1y and 10k per side would be madness.
    1. A ‘pack’ is defined as the cell(s) wired in series or parallel or any wiring combination that is used
    to provide electrical power to the speed control for the purpose of driving the electrical motor(s).
    a. Only one pack maybe used even if multiple speed controls are used.
    b. The pack must be made up of only one type of cell chemistry.
    c. In multiple speed control/motor installations the total pack voltage must be used as the
    supply input to each speed control.


    This is another area where the two orgs differ.

    Your Q Cat with 6s per side is considered a 12s setup and is illegal in the IMPBA.
    Wire 6s2p to both controls and your good to go. If you can squeeze 20k in there go for it.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    Gotcha. So Mah aren't really an issue. I don't want to see any classes become "must run twins" to win. Have to think on that.

    Offshore in Atlanta runs well over 4 minutes because the course is ginormous. 6 laps and a mill takes over 4 minutes. Closer to mid 5 minutes. Forget about what ever offshore setup you've devised for NAMBA. It wont work on the Atlanta course.
    Just because you mentioned it.
    1655736_671533752904145_150620165_o.jpg

    Mill and six.
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    Thats not an offshore course...its a frigg'in global excursion

    Southerners

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    I suspect at some NAMBA events there might have been some inadvertent "illegal" capacities being used.

    Can the CD make an exemption for this on race days? Can clubs make the exemption on the race flyers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doby View Post
    Thats not an offshore course...its a frigg'in global excursion

    Southerners
    Now you know why we needed your buds to flush their toilets during the drought. LOL

    I can see why a short sighted Kanadian would have trouble with it.
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  22. #22
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    That's goofy too. Two separate supplies of 6s10k to two separate speedo is the same as a single supply of 6s20k to two speedo. You just build a bus bar. There is no difference. Accept that you have extra resistance in the bus bar. Silly. Someone didn't think that one through either. I understand the intent but the end result is just more junk in the trunk. Pachmeyer did this back 2007 I think for a CAFE race. First real lipo race I can remember. I think his bus was solid gold at the time.
    Noisy person

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doby View Post
    Thats not an offshore course...its a frigg'in global excursion
    It's nutty John. That back pin is sooooooo far out that you're not sure if your going to clear it, hit it, or make land fall. Maybe nutty isn't fair. How about "challenging"?
    Noisy person

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    I remember in London we had that issue as well, the offshore marker disappeared in the early morning sun...all came down to whose spotter had a better relationship with the "Force"

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    ....so, back to my question about the CD........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Smock View Post
    Now you know why we needed your buds to flush their toilets during the drought. LOL

    I can see why a short sighted Kanadian would have trouble with it.
    How do you southerners do it...drive by Brail???...Clunk..Thud...whoops, to close!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doby View Post
    ....so, back to my question about the CD........
    ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Smock View Post
    c. In multiple speed control/motor installations the total pack voltage must be used as the
    supply input to each speed control.


    This is another area where the two orgs differ.

    Your Q Cat with 6s per side is considered a 12s setup and is illegal in the IMPBA.
    Wire 6s2p to both controls and your good to go. If you can squeeze 20k in there go for it.
    The wiring is no problem, My "P" Cat is wired so that each ESC sees 4S2P 10,000 mAmps total
    To be able to run 4 1/2 min, My average AMP draw can not be more then 65 Amps per motor.

    A big "Q" twin - 6S3P - 6,600mAmp packs = Oval racing at 80MPH

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doby View Post

    Can the CD make an exemption for this on race days? Can clubs make the exemption on the race flyers?
    John

    I think the problem would be the INSURANCE
    We are only covered when we stick to the rules.

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUCKPULL View Post
    John

    I think the problem would be the INSURANCE
    We are only covered when we stick to the rules.

    Larry
    Well that just opens a whole new can of worms....

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