Fast Electric Addict!
Watch Christopher Hitchens Get Waterboarded (VANITY FAIR)
Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"
Fast Electric Addict!
Hannity says he will do it for charity. I hope that happens since he feels it is little more than a fraternity prank (of course, he never went to college so I am uncertain how he would know about what fraternities do).
Don't get me started
Fast Electric Addict!
If waterboarding someone would save your child's life, would you still be against it??
We're the only nation in the world who ties our hands behind our backs when fighting a war.
But I'm sure if we talk to these people nicely, they'll tell us what we need to know...
Fast Electric Addict!
The popular dodge to this is the "what if" torture would save someone immediately.
But the thing is, that is not the case here so it is a straw man issue. Torturing people to extract information about past and possible, but not certain, future events is what we are talking about here Darin.
I'll also dispute the tying the hands remark. There are a fair number of other civilized nations that do not participate in torturing people. We have decided to join the august group of nations that do torture. Places like the Soviet Union, North Korea, Uganda, Iran, Somalia, Rwanda,....
Yes, I am proud that the US is a part of this fine group.
You guys just do not seem to get, we are the GOOD guys, we are the ones who wag our fingers at the rest of the world and tell them that torture is bad. But you feel that it is OK as long as it is us doing it??
And you really need to do some research to find out that torture is widely accepted as the LEAST effective way to obtain reliable information. Honestly, you people need to understand that Jack Bauer is not reality.
Don't get me started
Fast Electric Addict!
Get over yourself, Bill... That's a simply rediculous thing to say... REALLY??? I couldn't tell the difference...Originally Posted by Bill-SOCAL
Now that 'august' group of countries thinks we're a bunch of pansies and are going to continue to push even harder against us... Nice work.
Have you guys actually READ the memos?? Those who would equate what they are calling "water boarding" to the water boarding the Japanese used in WWII are highly misinformed...
I'm not an advocate of torture. But this witch-hunt is rediculous, and being done like it is, is severly WEAKENING our standing in the world... This administration is all about how they LOOK to the rest of the world... especially our enemies or nations otherwise unfriendly toward the US... I don't really give a crap if Iran likes us... What I do care about, is that they don't get up enough sack to come over here and do anything about it.
Fast Electric Adict!
As a Scot, yes I live in Canada but you will never take away my cultural background as the damage was done within my first 21 years
That type of torture is awfull. I am not against getting information but use other methods, such as sleep depreviation, the mind will break under these type of methods and yes this is a type of torture.
Edit
Plus you will get good info, not just a person willing to say anything true or false to save their life
Douggie
Last edited by Flying Scotsman; 04-23-2009 at 04:31 PM.
Banned
yuo are a MORONIf waterboarding someone would save your child's life, would you still be against it??
We're the only nation in the world who ties our hands behind our backs when fighting a war.
But I'm sure if we talk to these people nicely, they'll tell us what we need to know...
Fast Electric Addict!
Is that all you can come up with for a response?
"Our society strives to avoid any possibility of offending anyone except God.
Billy Graham
Banned
Yep you should try it and see if you like it
Fast Electric Addict!
Now that's a well thought out arguement that'll take you places...
But you have it a little wrong... it's not "MORON"... "More ON"... as in more on the money that most of you hanging out on the the extreme left...
Have a nice day...
Fast Electric Addict!
And this really is the heart of the matter for you, isn't it? The only way to show strength is through torture or military action. This truly does put us at an impasse.
Don't get me started
Fast Electric Addict!
Just FYI, it is spelled "you". And for Darin, the word is ridiculous, not "rediculous". The first might be a typo, but the second is a consistent misspelling.
Don't get me started
Fast Electric Addict!
Lol, you guys are a funny bunch.
Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"
Fast Electric Addict!
Why is it that you always jump to the absurd when attempting to counter an argument?
For example (not one I have heard you use, it is simply illustrating my point):
A Conservate states: "I am against gay marrige."
The Liberal's absurd conclusion: "Oh, so you hate all gays and want them all to die."
No Bill, that just means he is against gay MARRIGE. The comment made no other assertions. Perhaps the conservative IS gay, and just doesn't believe in the marrige part.
The conclusion does not follow the original statement. Don't try to read something in there that isn't, just to prove your point of view.
Please do not let this thread go on about gay marrige, I only used that as an example.
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves
Fast Electric Addict!
Well it is incorrect to use examples which clearly do not apply, so I do not get your point.
Darin made it a point that his worry is that we are showing the world that we are "pansies" and therefore weak. Apparently only by inspiring fear, for example by using torture, can we hope to demonstrate our might and resolve.
On the issue of Gay marriage, when a conservative states: "I am against gay marriage." I generally ask "Why?" What I really hear being said is "I do not believe in equal protection under the law".
And to be perfectly clear on the issue, I think every single argument I have heard from conservatives on this issue is just flat stupid. And before we get into the "sanctity of marriage" nonsense you can talk to me about that when the divorce rate is below 50%. ANd you can talk about the "historical sense of marriage" when you can explain to me how it was once illegal for mixed race marriages, but now they are OK.
So again, what are you all so afraid of??
Don't get me started
Senior Member
I sincerely don't know why you're still arguing with the rabid right putzes here Bill...they insult the general intelligence of humanity with every post
Steve
Fast Electric Addict!
Bill, one day they will awaken an realize that their sheltered world was just a dream, and what I mean by sheltered, is when the circumference of your thinking and resolution is control by people who truly don't have your best interest at heart.
"To put it more simply: Liberals want the decision to be spread out among more people, preferably everyone; conservatives want the decision to be made by as few people as possible, preferably just one." Baron Dave
Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"
Fast Electric Addict!
Of course unless they disagree with you then it turns to I hate you or I am obviously racist simply because I disagree with you.
"To put it more simply: Liberals want the decision to be spread out among more people, preferably everyone; conservatives want the decision to be made by as few people as possible, preferably just one." Baron Dave[/QUOTE]
"Our society strives to avoid any possibility of offending anyone except God.
Billy Graham
Fast Electric Addict!
You mean like choosing Michael Steele. What a sincere appointment.
Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"
Fast Electric Addict!
There you go assuming again
I am not a card carrying republican never have been and never will be a member of either party. I think they both need major reworking.
jim
"Our society strives to avoid any possibility of offending anyone except God.
Billy Graham
Senior Member
First off, I think of myself as a conservative, but I do not agree with using torture as a means of extracting information.
I also see no reason why we cannot strongly defend out nation without employing tactics like torture.
I also do not believe in gay marriage, but that is only because I've always thought of marriage by definition as a union between a man and a woman, NOTHING MORE.
Having said that, I do not believe it is my place to judge anyone based on their sexual orientation, nor to limit their rights in our society. Put simply it's none of my business.
Does any of this mean I'm not as conservative as I think? Maybe I need a little help understanding where I fit in (left-middle-right).
I do appreciate the opportunity to read the opinions of people like Bill, Darin, Dr. Jet, and others, thought provoking stuff to be sure.
I do wish the name calling, and questioning of intelligence and integrity by some would be left out of these discussions.
I personally think you are all good guys.
Last edited by RMZDADDY; 04-23-2009 at 10:43 PM.
Fast Electric Addict!
My comment was not directed at you or towards you in anyway... now that is an assumption.
Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"
Fast Electric Addict!
The crippling factor as I see it is the rise of divisive partisanship. Every single decision is based on which party came up with it. The dramatic style with which both parties continually vote along party lines simply is counter to logic.
And the absolute hypocrisy of both parties is also counter productive. The party in power will commit acts and say things in defense of what they do until they go out of power. Then they turn right around and criticize the new power party for the same thing.
Perfect case in point is Dick Cheney calling for openess and transparency!! Talk about going down the rabbit hole!! And I only use that since it is a recent example.
Until we can get back to a system where decisions are made based on what is best for the country, I think we are in for a rough ride. Also, we absolutely have to get religion out of politics. You have every right to think and worship as you see fit. But you do not have a right to impose those views on the rest of us.
Special interest money is also a huge issue in conjunction with what is now a continuous campaign cycle. The President should have a single 6-year term. Campaigns should be publicly funded as well, after all what single thing is more in the public interest? And the campaign "season" should last no more than 6 months, less if possible.
But I am dreaming again. Probably a hold over from all the drugs I did at the commune.
Don't get me started
Moderator
I'm with you....I don't consider myself apart of any party. I think both sides present some validity to their arguments. But I've learned to let people think what they want and be who they are; Right or wrong. These are some thought provoking discussions, but we should leave the name calling and blind accusations out. But I could be wrong...Just my thoughts.
Government Moto:
"Why fix it? Blame someone else for breaking it."
Fast Electric Addict!
"Liberals are people who are under the only partially mistaken impression that altering the structure of government is the best way to influence people and resources. Conservatives are people who are under the only partially mistaken impression that altering the people in power is the best way to influence other people and their culture." Baron Dave
Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"
Fast Electric Addict!
Christianity and Torture are not synonymous, unless your a Right wing conservative.
Sean Hannity " I'm a Christian and I support waterboarding."
Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"
Senior Member
Hang in there, Darin, I'm with you. RC prince is from Florida and they don't know how to use a voting machine and Bill-Socal is from Southern Calif which is right there with the idiots in San Fran! They elected pres Obummer so we will have the last say and at his rate, it won't be long.
Fast Electric Addict!
Dude... If you think you can define how I feel about how this country can/should show it's strength by using a single, or even just a few comments on an internet message board, then you are really mistaken...
And you are mistaken on what you think I was talking about in the first place... I made it very clear:
Sorry for the misspelling of "ridiculous", but that's what it is... it's actually "blue-diculous"... I told you I did not advocate torture, and was not really commenting on what happened... I was commenting on what IS happening. It's disgustingly political and it's damaging us, not helping our standing...
I'm NOT an "extreme-right-wing" person... I'm conservative, and, as I've said over and over again, believe that equalibrium is realized when we have a balanced approach that is based on traditional, conservative principles, weighed against basic human rights. I support the Constitution AS IT IS WRITTEN, and believe in the FREE Market, with checks and balances...
It's senseless to continue arguing this... Everything that the Right has been warning about is coming to fruition, and I DO believe we WILL be attacked again BECAUSE of this new administration and the waffleing that they are doing.
Bottom line is that these are BAD DUDES we are dealing with, and NO amount of decorum or diplomacy or "talks" is going to change how they feel about us and what they want in the way of destroying the Western Society. This IS a war of Religions... and the two worlds are NOT compatible... How do you live or accept someone into your life who wants to have you DEAD, and your way of life destroyed? No amount of sugar is going to make that better for them... Chriminy... look what just happened this week in Pakistan... the Government there appeased the Taliban by giving up a region to them... and the Taliban, now only about 30-miles from the capital, has setup training camps, and has been raiding businesses, flogging young girls in the street, shooting youths who tried to elope... They are only 30-miles from having control of the capital, and the Nukes that they have in that country... Does this make you feel like talking to them some more?
Sorry guys... support this kind of BS if you want... I won't...
Fast Electric Addict!
Your sort of rebuttals are not welcome, Nothing you've said was of any value to this discussion. We try to stay away from ad hominem attacks, one or two may slip in, but we try. This is your first comment and it's an egregious one at that. Stick to the boat section, obvious this is not your type of discussions. Come back with tact and facts. You'd be more than welcome to associate with the adults.
Last edited by RCprince; 04-23-2009 at 11:35 PM.
Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"
Senior Member
I couldn't agree more with this.
Posting Permissions
 |
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks