Promarine?

[MarkF]

Guys

There seems to be some misunderstandings on motors and pole counts.

The magnets on the motor dictate the poll count, not the windings. As far as the cog goes on a motor, that can be the magnet strength in part so a 4 pole can have a lot of cog too.But a higher pole motor will have more cog if the same strength magnets are used. Different magnet strengths are also used to help get desired kvs.

The windings on a 6 pole motor only differ because a 2y 4 pole can have a 2000 kv but a 2y 6 pole motor would have a 1500 kv. So a 6 pole needs to be wound to a 1.5y to get the same kv. This is just an example. The higher the pole count, the higher the torque, But, at the expense of a lower wind. Which means sometimes you can't get the kv you want after you get down below a 1Y. The actual kv differs between different sized motors. I hope this helps.

Mark

[kfxguy]

I

Guys

There seems to be some misunderstandings on motors and pole counts.

The magnets on the motor dictate the poll count, not the windings. As far as the cog goes on a motor, that can be the magnet strength in part so a 4 pole can have a lot of cog too.But a higher pole motor will have more cog if the same strength magnets are used. Different magnet strengths are also used to help get desired kvs.

The windings on a 6 pole motor only differ because a 2y 4 pole can have a 2000 kv but a 2y 6 pole motor would have a 1500 kv. So a 6 pole needs to be wound to a 1.5y to get the same kv. This is just an example. The higher the pole count, the higher the torque, But, at the expense of a lower wind. Which means sometimes you can't get the kv you want after you get down below a 1Y. The actual kv differs between different sized motors. I hope this helps.

Mark

Agreed. I'm glad someone else said it. I'm sitting back reading this and thinking "wha?" Windings-poles count....umm no. It's how many magnets the rotor has. Something to add to it that I'm surprised no one else has said. This is an observation on my part...I may be wrong, but I've noticed in motors with more copper ("higher end like Lehner and neu) they have letter steel in the windings so it has less cogging. A super cheap motor (think old dynamite) have a lot more cog to them. A Lehner has none. It only has copper in the windings. Just something for you guys to rethink about on the cogging of a motor.

[Brushless55]

Sorry to hear about that man, but I'm sure Joe will make it right.

I'm currently at a ski resort here in Southern California, couldn't miss the first good snow days down here. Luckily though, I brought with me my motors and ESCs to do some soldering during our downtime, and was able to inspect the motors.

I kinda was certain they were 6 pole by how much resistance I was feeling rotating the shaft, quite a bit more than my 4-pole Leopards, which I assume is because of the additional magnets.

Have you had a chance to inspect those motors you are running? You seemed happy with the SSS motors you have, I wonder how many poles they have. If they are also 4-pole, then there is some other things going on that has made them more "gentle" than the Leopard 4-poles.

Some motors are very smooth when turning by hand , 6pole, 4pole etc
some are hard to turn..

has anyone posted any pictures of the motor in question

I know box labeling can be a little off at times coming from China

[785boats]

Guys

There seems to be some misunderstandings on motors and pole counts.

The magnets on the motor dictate the poll count, not the windings. As far as the cog goes on a motor, that can be the magnet strength in part so a 4 pole can have a lot of cog too.But a higher pole motor will have more cog if the same strength magnets are used. Different magnet strengths are also used to help get desired kvs.

The windings on a 6 pole motor only differ because a 2y 4 pole can have a 2000 kv but a 2y 6 pole motor would have a 1500 kv. So a 6 pole needs to be wound to a 1.5y to get the same kv. This is just an example. The higher the pole count, the higher the torque, But, at the expense of a lower wind. Which means sometimes you can't get the kv you want after you get down below a 1Y. The actual kv differs between different sized motors. I hope this helps.

Mark

Then I apologise.
Seems it was explained to me wrongly all those years ago.
Paul.

[properchopper]

For those that believe that feeling "cogging" by hand means anything, remember when Neu splayed the stator in most of their motors several years ago to help the heli guys keep their blades on the hub. Two Neu motors labeled identically would feel completely different when hand testing coggin strength. Lehners are 2-pole motors. Two pole motors won't cog, period - it has nothing to do with "only having copper in the windings"

[TRUCKPULL]

Ok

Then what is the wind on a SSS 4082 -2000kv, 6 Pole brushless motor

"D" or "Y"

This is a must know in order to set the timing.

Larry

[ray schrauwen]

Ok

Then what is the wind on a SSS 4082 -2000kv, 6 Pole brushless motor

"D" or "Y"

This is a must know in order to set the timing.

Larry

I don't think SSS makes y winds. D winds require less work to make and don't need an extra solder joint in the motor.

If it has a solder joint inside the end bell its a y wind if not, D wind.

[keithbradley]

If somebody takes apart one of these SSS 40 series motors and finds that they are 6 pole, post a pic of the rotor.

[kfxguy]

For those that believe that feeling "cogging" by hand means anything, remember when Neu splayed the stator in most of their motors several years ago to help the heli guys keep their blades on the hub. Two Neu motors labeled identically would feel completely different when hand testing coggin strength. Lehners are 2-pole motors. Two pole motors won't cog, period - it has nothing to do with "only having copper in the windings"

Really? So have you taken apart a Lehner? No. I bet you haven't. Tell me, if all of the windings are nothing but copper what possibly could the magnets be attracted to so it would cog? Maybe I'm just dumb or something but when I was in elementary school I learned that copper isn't magnetic unless you apply power to it. Now if you add steel to the windings, it gives the magnets something to be attracted to. How could you possibly disagree?


On a side note, I could see where you'd assume what you are on a two pole. I have several here I just looked at and none of them have anything but copper in the windings...so I'd agree most two poles won't cog unless there's steel in the windings. Period.

[rayzerdesigns]

how did we get on motor nd poles when this is a discussion on a boat??

[ray schrauwen]

Its a nice boat. Back on topic!

What is required to be on waiting list? Pre order?

[T.S.Davis]

I've taken apart, Aveox, Lehner, Hacker, Neu, AQ, Proboat, Feigeo, Nemisis, Chilli pepper, Graupner, SSS, every 05 I ever had. What I can remember at the moment. I don't ever remember seeing any steel in the winding. Honestly though it's not something I ever cared about so wasn't looking for it.

I have an SSS at the house I tore apart but it's the 36mm. The surprising thing to me was how much of the can wasn't filled with winding. Then the actual rotor was very small too. By small I mean length. It was like they bought bigger cans than they needed and left them only half full of.......stuff.

On topic again.

Mike, is the plan for these to be available on shelves at local hobby stores or just an on-line store etc?

[kfxguy]

I've taken apart, Aveox, Lehner, Hacker, Neu, AQ, Proboat, Feigeo, Nemisis, Chilli pepper, Graupner, SSS, every 05 I ever had. What I can remember at the moment. I don't ever remember seeing any steel in the winding. Honestly though it's not something I ever cared about so wasn't looking for it.

I have an SSS at the house I tore apart but it's the 36mm. The surprising thing to me was how much of the can wasn't filled with winding. Then the actual rotor was very small too. By small I mean length. It was like they bought bigger cans than they needed and left them only half full of.......stuff.

On topic again.

Mike, is the plan for these to be available on shelves at local hobby stores or just an on-line store etc?

I'll take apart a couple this evening and post a video to highlight what I'm referring to. No worries.

I talked to mike the other day and he's going to send me a tester when he gets his shipment in. I can run pretty much year round here. I've got a smaller private pond with boueys setup for a race course that I'll be running in. Perfect for this boat. I'll let my son drive my rigger and see if he can beat me. Get my other son to video. I don't get to keep the boat unless I buy it. Which I'm sure I will lol. With what he's told me and the videos he sent me looks like a hoot and would be a nice addition to my collection anyway. Can't wait!

[rickwess]

My preference would be for the boat, less the electrics. I'd much rather add motor (TP), ESC (data logging) , Rx (Spektrum - don't need a Tx) and servo (digital) of my choosing. Hopefully that will be an option.

[ray schrauwen]

Yes, hull and hardware is what many of us may want. Most of us have tx and Rx with motors and escs kicking around.

[ray schrauwen]

I see a price for the larger boat for $589+ shipping but no price on the smaller Skater hull????

[JMSCARD]

Yes, hull and hardware is what many of us may want. Most of us have tx and Rx with motors and escs kicking around.

I agree.... I'd just be REAL concerned about running 6s on that motor.... I have run a quite a few dialed mean machines on 5s 2200kv setup with seaking 180 esc, and that is one hot setup... pulls over 120 amps, so even though that esc may be taking it... well, its not going to last forever being pushed like that.... I believe its been working, but honestly its a matter of time... a well trimmed 29" boat with the 1515 2200kv motor on 5s is about as hot of a setup as I care to play with...

I would certainly love to see a hull/hardware option no question.... GREAT looking hull.... and love the graphics I'm seeing on the site... about time we se a scale looking setup! Very nice.

[kfxguy]

My preference would be for the boat, less the electrics. I'd much rather add motor (TP), ESC (data logging) , Rx (Spektrum - don't need a Tx) and servo (digital) of my choosing. Hopefully that will be an option.

I asked him about hull and hardware a couple months ago. He said not at this time. I'd be willing to bet that if there's enough demand for it, he may end up doing it. But really...how much less do you think it would cost? Maybe $100? I think you'd come out better buying it complete and either selling the stuff out of it or using it in something else. A seaking 120 is a useful little esc to have.

[T.S.Davis]

If I had one I would be racing it. I don't really want an SSS motor. The 2075 is too many KV to race (race,race,race) on 6s. The speedo will take 6s but he didn't suggest running the boat on 6s. It's too small to sprint on 6s anyway. On 4s I would want to know what happens in traffic on both full P and on limited spec power. The SSS motors isn't what I would run for P. Full on hardcore racer types are NOT the market though so for a RTR the SSS motor is better than most. Nuts like myself are not the average buyer either.

If the intent is to put them on shelves I can understand wanting to sell a complete package. Same thing Proboat and Aquacraft do with theirs. You make a small percentage on ALL of the pieces to make it viable dollar wise. If you take out the electronics, radio, etc the margins go down. At some point there is well......no point. Mike, track me down if you're thinking about retailing these. I might be able to help with that around here. No strings attached.

In truth, the boats look so sweet they should sell themselves.

Not sure what his goals are with this offering. I'm sure he'll get back to us on that.

[kfxguy]

If I had one I would be racing it. I don't really want an SSS motor. The 2075 is too many KV to race (race,race,race) on 6s. The speedo will take 6s but he didn't suggest running the boat on 6s. It's too small to sprint on 6s anyway. On 4s I would want to know what happens in traffic on both full P and on limited spec power. The SSS motors isn't what I would run for P. Full on hardcore racer types are NOT the market though so for a RTR the SSS motor is better than most. Nuts like myself are not the average buyer either.

If the intent is to put them on shelves I can understand wanting to sell a complete package. Same thing Proboat and Aquacraft do with theirs. You make a small percentage on ALL of the pieces to make it viable dollar wise. If you take out the electronics, radio, etc the margins go down. At some point there is well......no point. Mike, track me down if you're thinking about retailing these. I might be able to help with that around here. No strings attached.

In truth, the boats look so sweet they should sell themselves.

Not sure what his goals are with this offering. I'm sure he'll get back to us on that.

I agree with everything you say. Well in this post..I kid I kid lol. Anyways...I'm pretty sure he told me he races it on 4s. I think what the 6s thing is it will handle it (well really for how long I dunno) and he's getting really good speeds out of it on 6s. For those speed demons, wanting to make some quick blasts then it will do it. I definitely would not race the boat on 6s....way too much power for that. I'm no oval racer like you guys but I've run laps by myself and in my own waves , (and it's even worse with other boats) over 60mph is not easy to do. Well for me anyway. Lol

[kfxguy]

Btw, if any of you guys have anything you need me to ask mike, let me know and I'll text him. He doesn't hang on the forum like us junkies lol

[Flying Scotsman]

Hmm.....I personally would buy the hull, hardware and servo, if it was an option. I think this is a more prudent way to sell FE boats. Let the buyer buy/install the other goodies of his choice. The reason behind this is I think most buyers of RTR boats use initially crap batteries get frustrated with low speed and then overpower the hull with silly setups and get frustrated with the sport. Do net get me wrong I started with an RTR many moons ago, it was slow, brushed motors, so so radio but it was a great learning curve and fun. I got bit with the hobby and progressed from there with much help from seasoned model boaters on RRR and now OSE. There are now a few pretty good fast RTR boats...maybe too fast for newbies.
Ahh ...there he goes again rambling on about being cautious with setups and safety...Yup, I am an "old fart" but you have to walk before you run.
This a nice looking hull though and I am looking forward to an unbiased review.

Douggie

[rickwess]

I asked him about hull and hardware a couple months ago. He said not at this time. I'd be willing to bet that if there's enough demand for it, he may end up doing it. But really...how much less do you think it would cost? Maybe $100? I think you'd come out better buying it complete and either selling the stuff out of it or using it in something else. A seaking 120 is a useful little esc to have.

I have no idea what the decrease would be. I just have no desire to buy a RTR boat and then replace the electrics. Yes I could re-sell them, but that just seems like a waste of everyone's time.

My suggestion for the business case, make most, or all your margin on the boat+hardware and add the electrics at close to cost. At the end of the day, you make the same amount of money on what gets shipped out the door and open up your market to include more of the enthusiasts. The value to most here is being provided in the hull+hardware combination, not providing/installing the electrics for us.

[Doby]

Douggie...Didn't you use to run FE boats powered by kites during thunderstorms....you are kinda old!

[kfxguy]

I have no idea what the decrease would be. I just have no desire to buy a RTR boat and then replace the electrics. Yes I could re-sell them, but that just seems like a waste of everyone's time.

My suggestion for the business case, make most, or all your margin on the boat+hardware and add the electrics at close to cost. At the end of the day, you make the same amount of money on what gets shipped out the door and open up your market to include more of the enthusiasts. The value to most here is being provided in the hull+hardware combination, not providing/installing the electrics for us.

I agree totally but you know what they say...you can't please everybody. For the record, I asked him about hull and hardware because I was interested in the same thing too.

[Flying Scotsman]

Douggie...Didn't you use to run FE boats powered by kites during thunderstorms....you are kinda old!

Those were the days....loved the response

Douggie

[skater368]

Guys
I have been in the Keys debuting the Skater & MTR to the real boat guys. They loved them ! If you follow me, my racing team or the Pro Marine RC page, you will see where we were. We gave away one for charity, Reef Relief, the gentleman who won bought another one on the spot too. I ran a demo in the harbor too. People flipped on how well it ran on 4s !
Here a pic of the painted MTR.
And on the RTR, ARTR or hull only. It's true, it would only save you about $125 bucks. So it's best I focus on this for now.
I have several designs to be built via contract because they loved the build, my design and attention to detail .
I'm going to be a busy man between now and February !
image.jpeg

[kfxguy]

Man that green one looks sick! But you already know how I feel about green. Lol

[skater368]

Its a nice boat. Back on topic!

What is required to be on waiting list? Pre order?

Must pay for it. Will be shipping out of warehouse in Indianapolis in days.

[skater368]

image.jpg oh boy. Game changer. Come see her perform in Huntsville these weekend