180a ESC & signal loss = 100% throttle, I found the answer!!!

[SD Eracer]

I have heard and seen members who run Seaking/Turnigy 180a ESCs with Tactic and other brand receivers have their boats go 100% throttle after signal loss, but not sure of the reason why.

My Pursuit last week immediately went full throttle and luckily stopped after 700 feet. However, my Genesis yesterday loss connection, went full throttle and went flying 50 feet into land, luckily the boat only had minor damage and no one was hurt.

I called Tactic today (Futaba & Great Plains), and they weren't sure why it happened, the receivers have a built in fail safe should they lose contact from the transmitter.

I figured out the problem on my own, it turns out that when you do a throttle calibration on your ESC (pull throttle on transmitter 100%, turn on ESC, 1 beep, release throttle, 2 beeps), then the ESC goes into normal arming. If you proceed to run immediately afterwards and your receiver losses transmitter connection, your throttle will go to 100%!!!

To fix this issues, after doing the throttle calibration, you MUST turn off your ESC. Then turn it back on and allow normal arming. After that, the throttle will go to zero should your transmitter lose connection with the receiver.

[ray schrauwen]

Aaah... this is what might have happened to me with my Cheetah at the MI cup.
Thank you!

[SweetAccord]

Awesome find! I think I figured that out a week ago with some knock off ESC's from Hobby King. Thanks for sharing.

[SD Eracer]

Glad I could help. It was absolutely frustrating and scary to see a boat capable of 65 mph plus hit a sand embankment, fly up high in the air, and crash into the ground while flipping several times nose to tail while almost killing two guys.

Considering I'm about to put a larger and much faster HPR 115 into the water next week, figuring out this problem became critical.

[gsbuickman]

Hhhhhmmmmm, thanks for the heads up. I've heard about and seen this problem but haven't had it yet myself because I do all of my testing like that at home before I take my boat out. It leaves me free to deal with other issues and any problems that crop up after that.

Are you planning on running a tactic rx in the HPR ?. Dont get me wrong I like tactic I just don't know if I'd be gutsy enough to try it around here.

[SD Eracer]

Hhhhhmmmmm, thanks for the heads up. I've heard about and seen this problem but haven't had it yet myself because I do all of my testing like that at home before I take my boat out. It leaves me free to deal with other issues and any problems that crop up after that.

Are you planning on running a tactic rx in the HPR ?. Dont get me wrong I like tactic I just don't know if I'd be gutsy enough to try it around here.

I totally agree, I like to make sure everything is squared away before I head to the field. Sometimes throttle calibration is done on the fly, and if done the way described above, it can lead to a disaster should you get some sort of signal loss.

I hear you on the HPR, running a 25 lbs 90+ mph torpedo with a budget radio system is not a good idea. But so far Tactic has been rock solid for me, and for this particular HPR, which was originally carbon fiber and now has several layers of additional carbon fiber, I will be running the Tactic TR826. It has two large antennas to overcome the carbon fiber interference and every single channel has a programmable fail-safe, which the lower models don't have.

For additional insurance, the very first run of the HPR will be in a large ocean cove with plenty of room in case something goes wrong and unlikely to hit anything.

[high-tech]

I also think you need to set the built in failsafe set point at zero throttle so when the receiver loses signal the failsafe does its job at keeping the esc at zero throttle...
My receivers have a failsafe button on the receiver but most other radios have a program setting for failsafe function.

[SD Eracer]

The basic Tactic receivers, which come stock with Aquacrafts like the Lucas Oil, Motley Crew, UL-1, and Revolt 30, have a built in zero failsafe, on those models it isn't programmable unfortunately.

However, it does appear to get temporarily programmed to full throttle should you do a throttle calibration (in which you do pull the throttle at 100% and hold), and don't reset the ESC afterwards by turning it off and back on.

I also appears to possibly effect some 3 channel Futaba receivers as well.

[tlandauer]

The basic Tactic receivers, which come stock with Aquacrafts like the Lucas Oil, Motley Crew, UL-1, and Revolt 30, have a built in zero failsafe, on those models it isn't programmable unfortunately.

However, it does appear to get temporarily programmed to full throttle should you do a throttle calibration (in which you do pull the throttle at 100% and hold), and don't reset the ESC afterwards by turning it off and back on.
I also appears to possibly effect some 3 channel Futaba receivers as well.

First of all: thanks for sharing.
I am a bit confused: all of my run away happened with my ESC calibrated and turned off before powered back on.
Are you saying that for safety reasons we need to calibrate everytime and then turn off and on the ESC before the start of an actual run? My point is that I never keep it on after a calibration, I have always formed a habit to turn off everything and then re plug the battery back to the ESC, don't know why, I think earlier on I had some issues with Spektrum binding procedure, of course that is unrelated.
I used to love the Tactic but after three or four run away I stopped using them, I will go back and see if I do this consciously it will make a difference.
Thanks!

[SD Eracer]

First of all: thanks for sharing.
I am a bit confused: all of my run away happened with my ESC calibrated and turned off before powered back on.
Are you saying that for safety reasons we need to calibrate everytime and then turn off and on the ESC before the start of an actual run? My point is that I never keep it on after a calibration, I have always formed a habit to turn off everything and then re plug the battery back to the ESC, don't know why, I think earlier on I had some issues with Spektrum binding procedure, of course that is unrelated.
I used to love the Tactic but after three or four run away I stopped using them, I will go back and see if I do this consciously it will make a difference.
Thanks!

No, you shouldn't need to re-calibrate every time you run, only when you make throttle trim changes on your receiver, or motor and/or esc changes, etc.

However, what I am saying is that if you do re-calibrate your throttle, as per Seaking/Turnigy's instructions, do not run the boat immediately after it arms itself after if finishes calibration. You need to turn off the ESC and back on again to make sure it zeros the receiver fail-safe.

If your boat went out of control even after you armed it after a shutdown, then you probably had an unrelated issues, such as water in the receiver or a faulty receiver. The situation I'm taking about is very specific to an after throttle calibration procedure. It can be duplicated every time if you try it, just be careful. If you do a throttle calibration, allow it to arm immediately afterwards, and then turn off your receiver, your motor will go at 100% throttle.

[tlandauer]

Thank you for the clarification!

[kfxguy]

Note to self: stay away from tactic lol

[SD Eracer]

Note to self: stay away from tactic lol

And also certain models of Futaba as well

I've seen guys with all brands of radio/receiver go out of control out there. There are so many variables, especially when running in salt water like we do down here close to the bay with a lot of radio signals from airports and Navy installations.

But, at least I know of one variable I can now control.

[tlandauer]

I have looked at the boats just now, these were set up with AquaCrafts stock ESCs, each time you have to calibrate and CAN'T TURN IT OFF AND THEN ARM. The way these work is that you calibrate /arm them each time you plug in a set of fresh batteries.
My boats inside conditions are bone dry.
As I think of it later, every time it happened in the same corner of the lake, It's my Bermuda Triangle.
This only happens with Tactic though.....
I am saying this not to discount the OP' s observation but to provide more info on my situation to promote positive discussion.
Thanks and Cheers.

Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

[SD Eracer]

I have looked at the boats just now, these were set up with AquaCrafts stock ESCs, each time you have to calibrate and CAN'T TURN IT OFF AND THEN ARM. The way these work is that you calibrate /arm them each time you plug in a set of fresh batteries.
My boats inside conditions are bone dry.
As I think of it later, every time it happened in the same corner of the lake, It's my Bermuda Triangle.
This only happens with Tactic though.....
I am saying this not to discount the OP' s observation but to provide more info on my situation to promote positive discussion.
Thanks and Cheers.

Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

This issue is in regards to the Seaking/Turnigy 180a ESC, its the combination of that ESC and the cheaper 3 channel Tactic and Futaba receivers that have this "glitch" in the programming.

I don't think the Aquacraft 60a has this issue.

The Seaking 180a and Tactic is a common combination for a lot of people. Usually Revolt 30 or Motley Crew owners who upgrade their motors and ESCs from the stock systems but keep their stock Tactic radios. Or people who moved up to faster hulls and wanted to keep the same radio/receiver combination for all their boats, like myself

[tlandauer]

This issue is in regards to the Seaking/Turnigy 180a ESC, its the combination of that ESC and the cheaper 3 channel Tactic and Futaba receivers that have this "glitch" in the programming.

I don't think the Aquacraft 60a has this issue.

The Seaking 180a and Tactic is a common combination for a lot of people. Usually Revolt 30 or Motley Crew owners who upgrade their motors and ESCs from the stock systems but keep their stock Tactic radios.

Yeah, I realized now. I only used the Aquacraft in combination with the Tactic, on my Seaking180 I had always used Spektrum marine series.
I am sure it is slightly different in nature with regard to my situation.

[SD Eracer]

Why don't you give us some more detail about your situation, maybe someone has an idea. Are you running the Aquacraft 60a ESC and losing contact while the boat goes 100% throttle?

I've seen it happen, but it was usually water in the receiver due to bad taping job.

[tlandauer]

Why don't you give us some more detail about your situation, maybe someone has an idea. Are you running the Aquacraft 60a ESC and losing contact while the boat goes 100% throttle?

I've seen it happen, but it was usually water in the receiver due to bad taping job.

Thanks for your interests, I actually posted this sometime ago.
Yes, running WOT and lost of contact between tx and rx. Rudder is rendered useless, boat goes at whatever last direction it was headed ( usually straight to shore, lol....) but it seemed to me a range issue, it duplicates itself at the exact location. My tape job is usually quite good, so I ruled out water as a cause.
Edit: the usual response was to get a better radio.

[SD Eracer]

Actually, you will find the opposite from our group. We love Tactic, I haven't switched myself because they have been so rock solid for us. We are a group that also runs exclusively in ocean water, which is much harder on electrics.

We actually have had members move back to Tactic from more expensive systems because they preferred the reliability of their old Tactics.

I have no qualms with running Tactic on my 85 mph boat.

For the issue you are having, did you try a different receiver in that boat? It could just be a faulty receiver, I've seen brand new $125 Futaba receivers go bad.

[rickwess]

The Spektrum receivers have a failsafe. The default is concerning to me and I was scratching my head on this for a while this summer when my mico-eco would always take off after i sub'd it.


Failsafe
The MR200 features Preset Failsafe that is ideal for most types of boats. With Preset Failsafe, when the signal is lost all channels are driven to their preset failsafe positions (normally low throttle and neutral steering). Failsafe positions are set during the binding process (see step 3 of the Binding section).

Failsafe Operation if Receiver Power Only
• When the receiver only is turned on (transmitter is off), all channels have no output, to avoid operating or arming the electronic speed control.

Failsafe Operation After Connection
• When the transmitter is turned on and after the receiver connects to the transmitter, normal control of all channels occurs.
• After the system makes a connection, if loss of signal occurs, Preset Failsafe drives all servos to their preset failsafe positions that were set during binding.
• When the signal is regained, the system immediately (less than 4ms) regains control.

[rickwess]

Yes, running WOT and lost of contact between tx and rx. Rudder is rendered useless, boat goes at whatever last direction it was headed ( usually straight to shore, lol....) but it seemed to me a range issue, it duplicates itself at the exact location.

This was pretty much my exact scenario...........other than losing contact wasn't location specific.

A simple check would be to power everything up and let the Tx and Rx connect. Then power off your Tx while leaving the boat plugged in to see what happens. If the prop starts to spin, rebind with the Rx but don't move any Tx controls when you do.

[tlandauer]

Actually, you will find the opposite from our group. We love Tactic, I haven't switched myself because they have been so rock solid for us. We are a group that also runs exclusively in ocean water, which is much harder on electrics.

We actually have had members move back to Tactic from more expensive systems because they preferred the reliability of their old Tactics.

I have no qualms with running Tactic on my 85 mph boat.

For the issue you are having, did you try a different receiver in that boat? It could just be a faulty receiver, I've seen brand new $125 Futaba receivers go bad.

I sure did, bought 2 new ones and I regretted doing the experiment because it was those two that had me repairing the boat. (UL-1 and a Vacu-Pickle hydro).
Now, I must say some of my 2010-11 vintage rx didn't have that, so could be a bad batch??
Anyway, i still have few and I just watch where i go and try to stay out of the troubled spot for now.
Thanks, i also like these for the same reason as you guys do.

[tlandauer]

This was pretty much my exact scenario...........other than losing contact wasn't location specific.

A simple check would be to power everything up and let the Tx and Rx connect. Then power off your Tx while leaving the boat plugged in to see what happens. If the prop starts to spin, rebind with the Rx but don't move any Tx controls when you do.

Well, yes, I did that and it stopped, however it was a different story once it was on the water and in that area.

[rickwess]

Well, yes, I did that and it stopped, however it was a different story once it was on the water and in that area.

That doesn't make any sense. What that implies is that there are different type of brown outs.

[tlandauer]

That doesn't make any sense. What that implies is that there are different type of brown outs.

Rick, you are absolutely right, that's why I gave up, not worth my time to dwell on it.
As I said earlier, when I was just getting into FE, around 2010, I had range issues ( was in a different area of the same lake, boat was really further away than the average distance i ran, didn't measure exactly how many feet or meters though). Each time when it happened, the boat would stop until I walked closer and re-established contact with the rx. Those receivers were bought then. The newer ones were bought last year (2014). all three of them had consistent behavior.