what motor for 55" mono

[Shuttle]

Hey guys I am building a MMP Watersnake and would like to know what motor would you use. My goal is 80mph.
I'm little bit lost with a motor selection. Neu/Lehner is not an option, i'm thinking about Leopard 56110 and TP 5860 but maybe there are other options.
Another question is kv. From my expirence with Genesis cat no-load RPM should be about 40 000 while OSE suggest around 30 000.
On other hand i'm not sure expirence with a cat can be used for mono.
Waiting for your opinions and suggestions :)

[axel]

Have a look at the SSS from TFL, they are very reliable and used a lot over here, the 56104 its a 10D with 700kv.
Stay by around 30000rpm

[Shuttle]

I'm little bit unsure about SSS, 14000Watt looks phantastic. Power of Leopard & TP looks more realistic.
And thank you for RPM suggestion. Do you think i can hit 80mph with 30 000 RPM?

[photohoward1]

80? That's quite a task in a 55" Mono. You better have top rated parts and an exceptional ESC. Do some research on this forum to get some insight so you are educated and not frustrated. "nmnorth" does have a Neu 2230 on sale that on 12S or 14S may get you there.

https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...ed-Neu-2230-1y

[Shuttle]

I know about twin build of the same hull. 2*SSS motors, FLIER ESC, 62-63mm props. 74mph. 7-10mins of runtime on 12S1P 5200mah each motor.
I think using more powerful single motor can give me at least the same results. In above mentioned build motors doesn't pushed to the limits. 62-63mm prop isn't too big for 12 000 Watt motor :)

[Fluid]

So you already know what works in your boat? Two successful builders of large FE boats have made different recommendations - if you do not want to follow them, why bother us by asking?

The SSS is not a 14,000 watt motor, don't believe the printed specs. No cheap ESC will handle that power anyway. The advantage of twins is that you can use lower-priced motors/ESCs to get the speed you want.

That is a very big boat to run 80 mph but I'm sure it can be done - by someone. Several local club members have run 44" monos into the mid-70s with a single motor and 10S in oval setups, but those were not budget builds with the cheapest parts available. Too, you will need more than a 62mm prop to get that big old log moving that fast....


.

[photohoward1]

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Rock on Jay

[Shuttle]

So you already know what works in your boat?

I know one successful build of Watersnake with two SSS motors and know one not successful build of RCMR's Donzi.
Donzi is also 55" mono. Powered by Lehner & Schulze and even didn't hit 62mph. As you can see, a top priced component doesn’t mean the one will succeed.
I think Lehner & Neu is for sport and/or top results. For hobby we have not so high priced components. Sure, Lehner/Neu is better than Leopard but what is the real difference?
30%? 40%? I don’t think so. 15-20% maximum.
ESC is another story.

Two successful builders of large FE boats have made different recommendations - if you do not want to follow them, why bother us by asking?

1 recommendation was about SSS and RPM. I will do as advised regarding RPM. SSS – I explained what’s bother me. Leopard, TP and SSS have nearly the same weight.
Declared power of Leopard & TP nearly the same but 12 000 watts of SSS just looks strange, at least for me.
2 recommendation wasn’t a recommendation at all, it’s some kind of general truth.

The SSS is not a 14,000 watt motor, don't believe the printed specs.

That’s pretty obvious and one of the reason I’m thinking about Leopard/TP. At least they specs looks more realistic.

No cheap ESC will handle that power anyway.

Sure, even at 90% efficiency at 14 000 watts will give us 1400 watts of heat. Pretty good kettle :)

The advantage of twins is that you can use lower-priced motors/ESCs to get the speed you want.

Ok, that’s idea is new for me. Thank you for sharing.
But I have a question; two Leopards/TP will cost about $400. Lehner’s price is about $600 (550eur).
Do you think putting Lehner on this hull will give the same result as two cheap motors?
I think like that (maybe I’m totally wrong):
Weight of twin setup is 13kg
Weight of single setup is 10kg
13/(2*cheap_motor_power) = 10/Lehner_power
Lehner_power = (20/13 = 1.5) *cheap_motor_power!
Do you think motor with nearly the same weight can deliver 1.5 power of average motor?
Mind you, Leopard/TP not so bad, they also use ball bearings & rare earth magnets.

Too, you will need more than a 62mm prop to get that big old log moving that fast....

I think for single setup I can start with 65-67mm prop and moving to 70mm.
But it looks like it’s not possible to hit 80mph with single setup.
In this case I need two motors. But which one to choose?
If any of my assumption is wrong - please correct me.

[Doby]

....and know one not successful build of RCMR's Donzi.
Donzi is also 55" mono. Powered by Lehner & Schulze and even didn't hit 62mph. As you can see, a top priced component doesn’t mean the one will succeed.
.

Did they people involved have a clue what they were doing, or did they just think that adding high dollar items would get them where they wanted to be (speed wise)???

[Fluid]

The OP knows more than you and I do Doby, let him figure it out......

[Shuttle]

I can say like that, it wasn't they first build. I also have no idea why this build failed.

[photohoward1]

I smell burnt ESC. Go for it. We could all be crazy. This thread went in a strange direction. Between Fluid, Doby and Myself I think we have about a Zillion years of experience. Oh well.


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[axel]

If someone says ´´ Neu/Lehner is not an option ´´ he has to take something like

SSS - TP - Leo

try and error

happy smelling

[Shuttle]

If someone says ´´ Neu/Lehner is not an option ´´

Ok, it can be an option, total price of additional motor, esc, battery packs and stinger is higher then difference between Lehner/Neu & SSS/Leopard/TP.
But, do you think Lehner/Neu can deliver 1.5 power of same weight/size SSS/Leopard/TP?
I don't think so. Maybe i have not enough expirence, maybe. But nobody answered my question "Do you think motor with nearly the same weight can deliver 1.5 power of average motor?".

I will take Fluid's recommendation and use 2 "cheap" motors.

he has to take something like

SSS - TP - Leo

Ok. And which one is better?

try and error

happy smelling

Don't worry about that :) Have 3 burned motors and no one esc yet.

[kfxguy]

I think your speed goal is quite unreasonable for that size hull with a single motor and the seemingly lack of experience. Maybe lower your goal to around 60 and you could probably get there. I always start slow and work my way up on new unknown builds.

[Shuttle]

I think your speed goal is quite unreasonable for that size hull with a single motor and the seemingly lack of experience.

Maybe you are right, but take a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=v_iVUyvDXn0

Maybe lower your goal to around 60 and you could probably get there.I always start slow and work my way up on new unknown builds.

Except tuning & prop what else can be done to increase speed in case of single motor build? I think you are right and single motor can't move this hull with desired speed.
So i have only two options: choose smaller hull (like 47") and use Lehner/Neu or build Watersnake with twin motors.

[axel]

Well Ralf Moser has a Watersnake and he is running it with 1 motor and he reached 80+
The motor is a Lehner - so its possible you don´t need 2

[kfxguy]

I'll reiterate and sum it up for you. You might be able to make one run 100 with a single motor, but (no offense meant) but with your level of experience at this point, 80 may be a lot harder than you think. That's why I said your goal may be too high and 60 would be a more realistic goal at this point. Better to set your goal a little lower then work your way up. Anything within reason is possible.

[kfxguy]

Well Ralf Moser has a Watersnake and he is running it with 1 motor and he reached 80+
The motor is a Lehner - so its possible you don´t need 2

Lol. He holds a world record for a mono......


******just disregard my advice, you two seem like you have it figured out. Not sure why any of us are attempting to help, you should seek advice from the YouTube videos******

[kfxguy]

The OP knows more than you and I do Doby, let him figure it out......

^^^^^this. I'm sorry I responded to this thread lol.

[Shuttle]

Well Ralf Moser has a Watersnake and he is running it with 1 motor and he reached 80+
The motor is a Lehner - so its possible you don´t need 2

Ok, this is valuable information, can you please provide a link to his build?
As i stated before, 2 motors (and two drive lines) will have nearly the same cost as one Lehner. But with two motors hitting 80mph isn't a problem.

[Shuttle]

I'll reiterate and sum it up for you. You might be able to make one run 100 with a single motor, but (no offense meant) but with your level of experience at this point, 80 may be a lot harder than you think.

With one motor yes, it's hard. I found info about one build of Watersnake with single Lehner, top speed is 60mph.

That's why I said your goal may be too high and 60 would be a more realistic goal at this point. Better to set your goal a little lower then work your way up.

Look's like my english is terrible.... From my expirence, tuning & proper prop selection can add 6-12mph.
If you know some tricks - please share.

[axel]

With one motor yes, it's hard. I found info about one build of Watersnake with single Lehner, top speed is 60mph.

Look's like my english is terrible.... From my expirence, tuning & proper prop selection can add 6-12mph.
If you know some tricks - please share.

Well you have to ask Ralf
you won´t find any buildthread from him
and believe me its not only tuning and propselection
Ralf tried for years to get the 100 mark
http://www.rc-saw.de/images/articles/Rekorde2015.pdf the official List of Sep. SAW event in Munich

and this was a month before at the SAW in Duisburg

Virus
3060/5
HBC500
8S2P Heavy Dutys

You see you have to start low and work your way up with the experience you gather thats what Kfxguy fluid and all others try to tell you

Its not possible just to buy some certain conponents and you get top of the notch but you have first class possibilities and that are motorwise NEU and Lehner

Hope this all helped you to start to get your experience that would be the first step in the right direction to your 80 aim

Have fun

Axel

[Shuttle]

Ok, thank you for explanation, i will rethink my build.

[kfxguy]

Well you have to ask Ralf
you won´t find any buildthread from him
and believe me its not only tuning and propselection
Ralf tried for years to get the 100 mark
http://www.rc-saw.de/images/articles/Rekorde2015.pdf the official List of Sep. SAW event in Munich

and this was a month before at the SAW in Duisburg

Virus
3060/5
HBC500
8S2P Heavy Dutys

You see you have to start low and work your way up with the experience you gather thats what Kfxguy fluid and all others try to tell you

Its not possible just to buy some certain conponents and you get top of the notch but you have first class possibilities and that are motorwise NEU and Lehner

Hope this all helped you to start to get your experience that would be the first step in the right direction to your 80 aim

Have fun

Axel

Well said and I agree.