Proper LiPo Storage...Take It Seriously

[Doby]

A LiPo Public Service Announcement...by Doby:

This is my LiPo storage Cabinet:
lipo 001.jpg

Its a Rittal Electrical Panel Enclosure. The company I worked for several years ago was going to throw it out (brand new) as the contract it was purchased for got cancelled. I felt sorry for it and gave it a new home.

It is made out of thick steel and weighs about 60 Lbs.

On any given day it houses approx. 70 LiPos of several brands, Turnigys, Zippys, Revolectrix and Polyquests., and a handful of SLA batteries for my scale boats.

All LiPos stored at 50% or less capacity.

As of Saturday morning, it now stores approximately 60 LiPos.


Those of you with advanced math skills will realize that there is a 10 LiPo difference from the beginning of the story.

Here is where the Qty 10 LiPo's are:
lipo 002.jpg

Seems on Saturday morning, there was a rather peculiar odor coming from the workshop, upon further investigation (after opening the cabinet) one of my LiPos decided it had had enough of living and decided to commit suicide and take a few innocent by standers with it. (Perhaps the offending battery originated for a rather unstable part of the middle east...)

As the entire cabinet was clouded in smoke it was hard to see the extent of the damage other than a few glowing "coals" in one location.

After the smoke had cleared and the carcases were removed, the suicidal LiPo was tracked down to one of the 4S Revolectrix LiPos I purchased recently.

It had a wonky cell that would only charge to about 91% while the remaining charged to 99%. When stored at 50%, the one cell was about 10% lower as well.

After all of the "soot" and other crap was cleaned out, here is what the cabinet looks like now, clearly showing where the Chernobyl event began.:
lipo 004.jpg

After spending several hours and using several jugs of alcohol to clean the remaining batteries, life is back to normal. The cabinet, while a tad smelly and scarred is no worse for wear and the house is still standing.

People hear stories about things like this happening and hope it will never happen to them...well, I can assure you that it can....but if you are prepared, the damage will be minimal.

TAKE A QUICK MINUTE AND MAKE SURE YOUR LIPOS ARE STORED PROPERLY. IF THEY AREN'T...DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU.

[Fluid]

Thanks Doby, a great reminder for all of us.



.

[z400]

I kinda figured you had an incident by the way the title is..

You've got a good setup, clearly.



Lipo's are sketchy.

[Ken Haines]

Thanks John,
This made me think of what could happen in my recreation
room if one of them went off like a roman candle. The Tongue & groove ceiling
would light up pretty quickly. The horror of my family's safety not to mention a lost home.
Minutes ago ordered a metal shop cart that looks perfect to store my 3 million packs that I just do not
seem to be able to part with. Has a lock too, which will keep Fede from getting curious one day.
I really appreciate the tip as that fireball experience in 2012 is still fresh in my memory.

[T.S.Davis]

I need to get my act together too. I've been working of late to dispose of cells that I no longer trust.

Seriously thinking about getting one of these since I have sources and such.

Fire rated cabinets

[ray schrauwen]

Glad everything is OK so to speak.

I've got some old cells that need destruction too. I can disdchasrge them and drop them off at local recycling in Halton. We have a world class recycling and disposal system, might as well us it.

I always wondered how you stored your arsenal.

[ezhitz]

Glad everything work out ok because of your cabinet . I keep mine in the garage in a small fridge but your story reminds my I have some puffy lipos that nead a salt bath before I have the same story.

[kfxguy]

I just ordered a couple big lipo bags. The big cube shaped ones. Not the flat ones. That should gete by until I come up with something better. I don't have any wonky acting ones right now but better safe than sorry.

[Brewbud]

Maybe I need to rethink my storage. I have them in a small fridge that is built into the bar in my back yard. The bar is made out of thick concrete so it should be fine. But if the flames shot outward and upward my balcony could go up. I have a small metal NEMA box. Wonder if they would be better in the box and then inside the bigger garage fridge. I only have 10 or so batteries right now. Hmmm....

[RayR]

Ken,

Could you please share the specifics of the metal shop cart you ordered?

[longballlumber]

After the smoke had cleared and the carcases were removed, the suicidal LiPo was tracked down to one of the 4S Revolectrix LiPos I purchased recently.

It had a wonky cell that would only charge to about 91% while the remaining charged to 99%. When stored at 50%, the one cell was about 10% lower as well.

Is there a particular reason you kept this pack around in the first place? IMO the hidden gem in this story is to get rid of those suspect cells before an event takes place.

In most cases, the pack is telling you what is going on well before it goes from bad to worse.

With that being said, I need a better storage system as well.

Thanks,
Ball

[kfxguy]

Is there a particular reason you kept this pack around in the first place? IMO the hidden gem in this story is to get rid of those suspect cells before an event takes place.

In most cases, the pack is telling you what is going on well before it goes from bad to worse.

With that being said, I need a better storage system as well.

Thanks,
Ball

You definitely have a good point. I suspect he wanted to squeeze what he could out of it especially since he bought it less than a year ago. Throwing a fairly new new lipo out with little use to it always hurts our feelings. No matter what name brand, none are immune to failure. I guess lipo technology is still in its infancy and we should tread it as such. I'm sure better and safer technologies are on the horizon. I hope anyway. Lol

[Doby]

. I suspect he wanted to squeeze what he could out of it especially since he bought it less than a year ago.

Yup.

[Ken Haines]

Ken,

Could you please share the specifics of the metal shop cart you ordered?

Hi Ray,
Here is the link to the cart I purchased online. It is a bit pricey, but most of the hallway decent
metal shop carts are as I had researched them a year ago for the nuclear plant.
I wanted something also that I could roll around and also set up my charging station for the
night before our club races when I usually start the charging ritual. This is not as good as a NEMA
enclosure, but it would contain a fire and would keep my 13 year old step son away from fooling with them.
I fear he does not yet have the same respect for them that I only have after seeing them fire off.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_447172-48535...=steel+cabinet

To answer your question Mike Ball, I keep some of the packs because the other remaining cells are in great condition. This gives me the option to remove the bad cell making it a smaller pack or to replace the cell with
an identical replacement. Time consuming, but I do work on electronics as my profession at the Nuke Plant
so it seems logical not to trash them for example if I have punctured an outer cell. This all being said I do
have way too may non-competitive and oddball packs just laying around, I do need to move many of them.
to the local disposal center....good point.

[dmitry100]

Is it okay to drop off bad lipos that weren't properly discharged to battery recycling centers? I have some that I have no way of discharging which I need to get rid of.

They happen to be Traxxas junk lipos. Most of them were barely used, too. Someone should sue their asses for selling non-boat rated lipos with their boat(s).

[longballlumber]

Is it okay to drop off bad lipos that weren't properly discharged to battery recycling centers? I have some that I have no way of discharging which I need to get rid of.

They happen to be Traxxas junk lipos. Most of them were barely used, too. Someone should sue their asses for selling non-boat rated lipos with their boat(s).

You can soak them in a salt water solution that will discharge them to zero voltage over time. This should be done before disposing of them.

[tlandauer]

All lipos need to be soaked in salt water before proper disposal. Buy salt at Super Market and a plastic bucket, put salt in the water, and soak batteries for a few days.
You will see green corrosive sediments flowing on the water and you know it's working. The little pins in the balance plug should be completely corroded after a few days. You may see bubbles from the batteries not long after you put them in the salt water.
It's not safe to just dispose any un treated lipo.
I don't know if battery recycling center actually takes lipo. Hopefully someone would chime in.

Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

[ray schrauwen]

Is it okay to drop off bad lipos that weren't properly discharged to battery recycling centers? I have some that I have no way of discharging which I need to get rid of.

They happen to be Traxxas junk lipos. Most of them were barely used, too. Someone should sue their asses for selling non-boat rated lipos with their boat(s).

It depends on the place you go to. Some will, some won't . if they take laptops with Li Ion, they may take lipo too. My place does.

[Peter A]

Ok so lipo disposal, just throwing them in saltwater will not discharge them, it will only corrode off the terminals, the result of that is the 'green' which is the copper tabs corroding! To dispose of properly;
1) Discharge lipo on charger.
2) Using a small load, eg tail light bulb, discharge pack until bulb no longer lights. Do this in a safe area. Voltage should be less than 1v for pack or even millivolts.
3) Cut apart pack, remove wires and slice open or pierce cells.
4) Now put into saltwater solution for a week or two. I suggest a plastic bucket in a well ventilated area.
5) Dispose in landfill.

After this process the lipo battery is inert and no longer a fire risk.

Another thing to consider, if Doby had a smoke alarm near his cabinet he may have been aware of a problem earlier. He could just as easily been sleeping or not home and it could have been much worse. Smoke alarms are cheap and a really good first line of warning of fire.

[tlandauer]

I measured mine after a few days and they are completely discharged, i took my reading from the main wire and I thought that's ok????
I understand that they need to be discharged but I thought dumping them in salt water has the same effect while the batteries are being made inert????


Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

[Peter A]

Salt water is corrosive and while it is also conductive, it is not enough to necessisarily discharge the battery. Tim a zero or very low reading could be because the terminals have corroded off, and the cells could still be holding a charge. The only way to be sure is to take them through a process like I described.
It would be VERY good if battery manufacturers put out proper disposal methods for Lipo/Li-ion batteries. After all if they are not safe enough for the airlines to transport, how dangerous are they in the hands of every day people, who are often unknowledgeable (and often dumb a$$ idiots, not here of course!) on the technologies and associated dangers. Sadly it would seem that many battery disposal facilities have no idea either and just send them straight to landfill. There are so many lithium based batteries around now that is is only a matter of time before something goes wrong....

[Doby]

Smoke alarm went off 2 minutes after I opened the cabinet...it was keeping most of it inside....

I doubt the cabinet would have not been able to contain everything even if all the lipos would have eventually gone off....its big and heavy gauge steel construction. The visible damage on the inside was mainly from the paint being burned off...there was no visible damage on the outside of the cabinet...not even paint blistering directly on the location where the meltdown occurred. The gauge of steel is about twice as thick as the steel fire bowl on our outdoor fireplace, and it burns for hours on end without a warp etc...

All of this happened within about 20 minutes...got up...made breakfast with the Mrs....ate outside on the deck...came back in and noticed the odor.

So please, everyone who reads this....make sure your LiPos are stored safely...think OVERKILL.

[Doby]

Its also interesting that a few of the folks who have posted on here, basically implying they need to re-think their storage methods are some of the more "seasoned" racers.

I'm glad they posted as everyone has to be careful about becoming to complacent.

Scary to think how many LiPos are tossed in closets etc, awaiting their next use.

[Doug Smock]

"After the smoke had cleared and the carcases were removed, the suicidal LiPo was tracked down to one of the 4S Revolectrix LiPos I purchased recently".


Are you sure? Revolectrix just don't have problems. Must be your equipment.

Thanks Doby, a great reminder for all of us.



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[Peter A]

Thanks Doby for the reminder, and being the guinea pig for us all. Good that you had a smoke alarm too. Just wondering if a smoke alarm sensor inside the cabinet wouldn't be a bad idea? Earlier warning.
And because I moved house only a couple of weeks ago, tonight's mission is to sort out my lipo storage and put up a smoke alarm. I have an old ammo box that has been used for a toolbox for decades, and I have eyeballed it and thought it would be just right for storing my lipos in. Currently I have only 9 packs plus two old ones that need disposal, but it only takes one!
I also like to have a smoke alarm where I charge also.

[Doby]

"After the smoke had cleared and the carcases were removed, the suicidal LiPo was tracked down to one of the 4S Revolectrix LiPos I purchased recently".


Are you sure? Revolectrix just don't have problems. Must be your equipment.

Now, now.. Mr Smock....I'll put my moderator hat on (if only I had those God like powers) for a minute...lets keep this topic on track and and not get into a LiPo "flame" war on brand "A" being better than Brand "B", or this P-Limited motor should be on a list but not this one.....

They are just toy boats fellas! Back on topic.

God that felt good (I could use a cigarette right now after that) Of course, I'd have to start smoking first.


The only reason I posted what brand it was because I knew someone would eventually ask.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming......STORAGE SAFETY!!

[Doby]

Peter, a smoke alarm is all fine and dandy as long as there is someone home to hear it.. few weeks ago I was in Switzerland for a week...had it happened then I probably would have lost all LiPos but I'm sure the house would still be standing.

[Peter A]

Peter, a smoke alarm is all fine and dandy as long as there is someone home to hear it.. few weeks ago I was in Switzerland for a week...had it happened then I probably would have lost all LiPos but I'm sure the house would still be standing.

Yep true, they are just so good for helping save lives when people are in the house. Perhaps a CO2 extinguishing system installed in the cabinet...I know I'm thinking out loud again!
Just the other day here in NZ, there were a number of people killed in a house fire, two got out because of a working alarm. Considering the potential risk it is something we need to take seriously, just like swimming for boats, lives (not forgetting property damage/loss either) are worth more.

[Doby]

Yep true, they are just so good for helping save lives when people are in the house. Perhaps a CO2 extinguishing system installed in the cabinet...I know I'm thinking out loud again!
Just the other day here in NZ, there were a number of people killed in a house fire, two got out because of a working alarm. Considering the potential risk it is something we need to take seriously, just like swimming for boats, lives (not forgetting property damage/loss either) are worth more.

Exactly!

I'm even now going to be on the lookout for a second cabinet to keep outside and move the LiPos out there when I'm away for a vacation etc..on second thought, move the current smelly one outside and keep the new one inside.

[JimClark]

Doby so you did nothing special as far as any vents or anything? Good idea maybe I should look for something a lot smaller as I only have small 2s (1500 mah0 AND 6 2S 5000 MAH batteries