Largest Motor/ESC Combo In JAE Mini Sprint

[NativePaul]

Is there a class for saw with a rigger this small i am sure someone has a class for it but just thought I would ask.

There are Mini Hydro (<450mm) SAW classes here in the UK and in Germany that I know of, probably elsewhere in Europe too, I don't know of any mini classes in the states if you are there, there are mini classes for oval and triangle racing with Naviga all over Europe and Asia too.

How well does a 3 blade work on a rigger?

I have tried a stock v935, and a cut down detounged v935 on mine and neither worked, but I have the stock fixed driveline so couldn't adjust anything to help, x4--, x6-- and p735 two bladers all worked fine though, I will probably try the ABC 1/8" three bladers when they become available.

Tim Gifford, that is insane! The 2836 motor I have pushes mine along well enough.

What would be the most efficient motor to fit these riggers Neu or Tp maybe? I just got back to playing around with this boat it still has the leopard 28x45 4700kv running 3s with a tfl 432 prop (57.2mph). I have no other way atm to record speed other than taping the garmin 201 to the top, I know that is adding a good amount of weight to a rigger this size, I tape it on so it is balanced right at the turn fin.

Neu, Lehner and Plettenberg are all top notch high end motors with great efficiency, I wouldn't like to pick between the 3, Lehner do make it easy to see the efficiency at any load though with the software on their site. I would be surprised if you needed more motor though, is it getting hot? We have similar KVs, my motor is smaller and I am able to run 6 laps with a detongued X632 (which should be more load) with reasonable temps, have you tried more prop?

75mph with a rigger at 17in. is hauling ass

For sure! Mid 50s seems like hauling arse to me, I already need to exercise throttle control in most weathers, are you only running that fast in flat calm or does your extra weight over mine tame it enough? By the way have you measured yours? If not, could you please. I am pretty sure that I built mine to the letter, but I had to cut the tips off my sponsons to get it into our <450mm (<17.72") classes, I think it was just over 18" despite them saying 17".

[jim82]

Motor temps are ok, the esc is getting pretty warm after 2 passes around 130f ( timing set at 3.5) 432 prop. I measured the boat from sponson tip to end of ski and yes its about right a 18in. With the speed I got yesterday yes the water was flat it still runs fine with a little ripple ( i mean very little ripple) other than that you can hang it up...lol

[jim82]

I still have lots of tweaking to do to this hull best I got today was 57mph. I even went to a 435 prop and was still around the same speed. I am going to have to do lots of thinking to get her faster lost atm but I am sure I will get it figured out over time.

[jim82]

Sweetaccord any up dates bro? Still working on mine and watching pauls video over and over kills me his is hauling. 57.2mph is my best so far.

[NativePaul]

I would be surprised if mine was that fast, low 50s would be my guess, I took it to SAWs but it was very rough so all I found out was that it did 43 at partial throttle, I don't have it any more either so I will never know.

x632 and p735 should be quicker than x432 or x435.

[jim82]

Yea I have an x632 I have not tried yet.

[jim82]

If weather is good tomorrow I may give it a try!

[SweetAccord]

Sweetaccord any up dates bro? Still working on mine and watching pauls video over and over kills me his is hauling. 57.2mph is my best so far.

I have been busy. I hope to run the scorpion motors eventually.

[SweetAccord]

any info guys plz help...lol..Reaching 65 mph is getting close...My goal is 75mph..I know it can be done!

Did you put bearings in the strut? That will make a huge difference. I would ditch the drive cable it came with and go wire drive. That will also make a significant difference.

[bob horowitz]

Are you guys running any water cooling on the motor or ESC? I'm redoing my Minisprint and I'm curious.
Regards,

Bob

[SweetAccord]

Are you guys running any water cooling on the motor or ESC? I'm redoing my Minisprint and I'm curious.
Regards,

Bob

With a high enough ESC Amp rating you don't need one. Even the original design does not call for one which was originally stated to use a 50A with the recommended stock motor from Zippy. Now they recommend 60A. With a 60A you 100% don't need water cooling with the stock motor setup. When they used to say use a 50A I automatically did a 60A knowing it would be pushing the 50A. If you want to run one you can, it won't hurt but space in the hull is tight and lightness (every oz) counts towards speed.

[Dashunde]

Hi all, I just ordered a Mini Sprint kit and am finalizing my parts list.

I have ordered a Leopard 2845 3650kv and 4420kv and a Seaking 60a.

Trying to figure out what prop(s) to get...?

[NativePaul]

A 2845 will fit, but it is overkill for the hull. As you have gone for the biggest motor that will fit, I guess you don't care about run time and just want as much speed as you can get, on 3s? P735 on 3650kv, x432 on 4420kv will probably be about at the limit of your ESC.

[Dashunde]

Well.. not really absolute all-out SAW running, but yea.. I'm after plenty quick.. thanks to your darn video on the first page :)
(exactly what prop was used in that video btw? )
Props are relatively cheap.. I can prop it for speed or run-time depending on my mood.

I'll probably skip the 4420kv though.. at least for now.

It'll be:
Leopard 2845 3650kv
Seaking 60a
One-piece flex shaft assembly
CNC 32mm (Also bought a x430)
3s 2200 lipo (yet to be determined, open to good bang-for-the-buck suggestions on whats available nowadays)
Solid booms (still need to track those down)
CF rudder mount (Need to study the kit upon arrival)

If I don't like the way it runs (heavy'ish) I suppose I can always swap in one of those nice Scorpion outrunners, or even the $18 option from Zippkits.

[bob horowitz]

I think you should check the dimensions on the Sea king ESC. I think you will have a hard time fitting it in. I'm running my Mini with the same motor with a water jacket. It barely fits. The water fittings have to be aligned just so to get the Zip plastic cowl on. I'm running a HK 60 amp Blue ESC with a cooling plate that I made. I have only one or two runs on it with this set up. I'm running a three blade prop that I got from Raptor 347. I don't have the specs on it with me, but it seemed really sweet on my first try with it. I'm going to the pond this afternoon and I'll try it some more, along with a 632 and a 432. With the original set up from Zip for 3S(3500kv motor) and the 432 prop, I ended up cooking the motor. That's why I changed the set up and added the cooling. I will report back with results later today or tomorrow.
Bob

[Dashunde]

Yea, I have some concerns about the Seaking not fitting.
Who makes a decent marine 60-80a esc that is long and flat, instead of being a square box?

[ray schrauwen]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flycolor-70A...QAAOSwv9hW4mEW


A suggestion not a recommendation. This is 90 x 50mm x 30mm

[NativePaul]

Prop in my video is a modified X632 being spun by a 28x36 motor.

An X430 should give you 3 minutes on 3650kv with 3s 2200mAh. X427 performs well for me giving 5 mins of low 30s on 3000kv with 1500mAh, but is marginal getting out of the hole and yours will be a bunch heavier so 30 will be the smallest you can go.

[Dashunde]

Judging by Paul's dimensions from the first page and the photos inside I think the Seaking will fit, tight but doable.
The question is whether it'll be placed ahead of or behind the lipo. I'll probably put the rx in the nose.

For weight, the 2845 w/ jacket and hose should be around 150 grams vs 82g for the stock outrunner, roughly a 2.5 ounce difference... put another way, about the same as excessive resin pooling in corners and a thick pretty paint job.
Heavier? Yes, definitely, but the trade-offs in durability, longevity and the ability to run pack-after-pack without cool down time may be worth the additional weight.

I'd probably use the same drive cable, esc, rx, servo and (tbd) lipos no matter what motor was used.
I think the lipo selection is the single largest weight variable. Zippkits mentions using up to a 2600..

Their site also mentions keeping a sharp eye on the outrunner temps using the 430 and up props... seems like a water-cooled motor mount would be a great optional part.

[bob horowitz]

Just curious, are you using the Zippkits boat? That's what I'm basing my statements about fit on. I'm using the smallest 2200mah 3S battery I could find and it's a squeeze. Even with the original out runner from Zip I could not get the Seaking in. I even took the water fittings off to see if i could get it in that way, no dice. Like I said in my previous post, I ended up using a HK Blue series air cooled 60amp ESC. Like I said before, I just made a cooling plate for it. I haven't been to the pond to do some more testing yet, but I hope to today. Right now the weather is kind of poor and yesterday it was too windy.
Later,
Bob

[Dashunde]

Humm...

..I think you could probably fit a 120A watercooled ESC and 3000mAh LiPo in it. If you want to work it out the space available between the transom and the boom tube is 206mm long, 54mm wide and 32mm high, but the lip is only 39mm wide..

Size (Include the Water Cooling Pipe): 60.5X38.5X25.6mm

The length isn't much of a concern, but width and height is... with .5mm to spare I hope I can wiggle it through the hatch opening, but once in it should be ok?

Undesirable... shave a few hairs off of the opening lip.
Worst case... stuff it into a balloon and build around it

The kit is here, still waiting on the esc... will know soon enough I suppose.

[bob horowitz]

Hi guys,
I guess I lost patience trying to get the Seaking to fit. Anyway, I got to the pond this afternoon to run a couple boats with new setups. I ran my Minisprint, which is now setup with a Leopard 2845 3650 kv with a water jacket and the Hobbyking Blue series 60 amp ESC with a cooling plate I made. I ran 2 batteries through it. Both 3S Turnigy A Spec 2200mah. I got it up to 50-51mph according to the GPS in my radio. It's one of those Hitec Lynx 4S set ups with telemetry. I was running the 3 blade prop I mentioned before. It's a 1214-15/60 . I have to go and try the 632 I recently bought, and a 432 again to compare. I just put the Hitec radio on this boat so I have no numbers from before to compare to. Hopefully I'll get to the pond tomorrow.
Regards,
Bob

[SweetAccord]

Well.. not really absolute all-out SAW running, but yea.. I'm after plenty quick.. thanks to your darn video on the first page :)
(exactly what prop was used in that video btw? )
Props are relatively cheap.. I can prop it for speed or run-time depending on my mood.

I'll probably skip the 4420kv though.. at least for now.

It'll be:
Leopard 2845 3650kv
Seaking 60a
One-piece flex shaft assembly
CNC 32mm (Also bought a x430)
3s 2200 lipo (yet to be determined, open to good bang-for-the-buck suggestions on whats available nowadays)
Solid booms (still need to track those down)
CF rudder mount (Need to study the kit upon arrival)

If I don't like the way it runs (heavy'ish) I suppose I can always swap in one of those nice Scorpion outrunners, or even the $18 option from Zippkits.

The zipkits outrunners are meh. The scorpion are way way better!

FYI to all these are actually Scorpion motors: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=25677

I ordered two and they say Scorpion on them, great price for way half the cost! These are great outrunners but backordered, if they come back in stock grab them!! You won't regret it. I snatched two and they amazing. The field/torque on these are exactly like the Scorpion.

[SweetAccord]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flycolor-70A...QAAOSwv9hW4mEW


A suggestion not a recommendation. This is 90 x 50mm x 30mm

I agree. The Flycolor are hard to beat. It's what the OSE Raider really is also.

[SweetAccord]

Just curious, are you using the Zippkits boat? That's what I'm basing my statements about fit on. I'm using the smallest 2200mah 3S battery I could find and it's a squeeze. Even with the original out runner from Zip I could not get the Seaking in. I even took the water fittings off to see if i could get it in that way, no dice. Like I said in my previous post, I ended up using a HK Blue series air cooled 60amp ESC. Like I said before, I just made a cooling plate for it. I haven't been to the pond to do some more testing yet, but I hope to today. Right now the weather is kind of poor and yesterday it was too windy.
Later,
Bob

That's right. If you use a high enough ESC amp rating, you don't need water cooling. You can add it if you want but if propped right you don't as the original OEM didn't call for it either. If you are going to use larger or more pitched props and or higher KV's you are on the edge and adding water cooling will be ideal for long term life.

I have been using these: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ontroller.html and they hold up very well and the KB Blue are really these rebranded. Well made and can handle any outrunner that fits in the Mini Sprint that is in reason.

The YPG are good too: https://www.amazon.com/2~6S-SBEC-Bru...ywords=ypg+esc

The are a clone also. The YPG are the ORIGINAL that the famous YEP are cloned after. These are excellent ESC and very small for 60A. You will be hard pressed to find a better ESC in this size for this performance for this amperage with a BEC.

[Dashunde]

I got the Seaking 60a today... yea its not exactly small by any means, but will probably work.

I'm definitely going to stick with a water cooled inrunner and esc, so I'm giving the Flycolor a hard look too... exactly how big is the black box w/ fittings?
Any chance it'll fit in the nose ahead of the motor? Unlikely, but that would be unexpectedly excellent :)

[NativePaul]

The are a clone also. The YPG are the ORIGINAL that the famous YEP are cloned after.

This is partially incorrect, YEP are indeed a clone, but YPG are also a clone (maybe an earlier one or a clone OEM). YGE are the original designers and where your money should go if you want to support continued R&D leading to better products in the future.

[Dashunde]

Any chance YEP, YPG and YGE are all divisions of the same company?
The difference may be the quality of the individual components used to build the various brand versions?
All three have the same/similar blue & silver color scheme with just variations in the pattern.

Example.. Sunray makes the esc's for Extremeflight, Hacker, Mystery and several others... aside from the external packaging the differences are subtle amounting to internal parts picking for quality vs cost as spec'd by EF, Hacker, etc.

[SweetAccord]

Far as I know the YPG are the ORIGINAL ESC's that are OEM that the famous YEP are cloned after.

[NativePaul]

No, YGE were very upset that their property was stolen, but they are a small company and international lawsuits both very expensive and unlikely to result in a Chinese patent impeacher actually desisting manufacture of the stolen product. They would rather spend their money on R&D, making their next generation better, keeping their technology above the cloners and giving their customers a better product.

It is however quite easy to get a fake product removed from sale in most countries, so they don't use the original name or logo. They use a similar name and colour scheme to give the impression of the original product, while not technically passing off as the original.