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Thread: The Voracity tuning thread

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by arrover View Post
    My stock untouched prop ran 48.7 so maybe there's a wide variance in them. The x646 didn't torque roll to badly. I didn't really notice it anyway. I have run a 5014 on this boat and it did torque roll pretty badly but it still ran 55.8. I think you already switched your ESC right? I think I'm probably at the limit of the stock setup with the x646. The temps are concerning at least but I want to hear what the pros think.
    Your motor and esc temps are not too high. Yes i have change the esc to a 180amp Seaking. The 5014 prop that you used is it 50mm with a 1.4 pitch? I'm not familiar with that prop. I'm thinking iI might ok with a 648.

  2. #122
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    The 5014 is a CNC prop that I tried just to see what they were all about. Yes, it does have a 1.4 pitch. I would like to see how far the stock ESC and motor can be pushed but I'm kind of itching to put in my 180a Seaking too...

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulfromtulsa View Post
    Your motor and esc temps are not too high. Yes i have change the esc to a 180amp Seaking. The 5014 prop that you used is it 50mm with a 1.4 pitch? I'm not familiar with that prop. I'm thinking iI might ok with a 648.

    I see your itching to try a 648. Well I can tell you I burned up a $490 lehner motor and a expensive Esc in my 34" mono running that prop. It pulled a lot of amps. I think I was Peaking 399 amps in some points of the data log. I'm not sure what it will do on this boat. It is a lighter boat but it has a six pole motor which changes things some. I know the stock setup lives just fine with a bit less prop but is close to being on the edge. I've only see a 2 or so mph increase from a 645 to a 648 anyway. There's better props out there that would pull less amps and likely go faster. M447 is one example. 1914 and 1915 abc are two more choices. I went 58 with a abc prop weekend before last. I know the 648 won't be as fast and will be harder on things. I'm not even sure why I keep that prop lol. I'm gonna try to get out to the lake a couple times this week and do some more testing. I really really need to change trim tabs. I think the stock ones are causing me fits because they won't hold their position if they get touched. I'm trying to keep this boat in as stock form as possible but I think that's one necessary accessory it really needs.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfxguy View Post
    I see your itching to try a 648. Well I can tell you I burned up a $490 lehner motor and a expensive Esc in my 34" mono running that prop. It pulled a lot of amps. I think I was Peaking 399 amps in some points of the data log. I'm not sure what it will do on this boat. It is a lighter boat but it has a six pole motor which changes things some. I know the stock setup lives just fine with a bit less prop but is close to being on the edge. I've only see a 2 or so mph increase from a 645 to a 648 anyway. There's better props out there that would pull less amps and likely go faster. M447 is one example. 1914 and 1915 abc are two more choices. I went 58 with a abc prop weekend before last. I know the 648 won't be as fast and will be harder on things. I'm not even sure why I keep that prop lol. I'm gonna try to get out to the lake a couple times this week and do some more testing. I really really need to change trim tabs. I think the stock ones are causing me fits because they won't hold their position if they get touched. I'm trying to keep this boat in as stock form as possible but I think that's one necessary accessory it really needs.
    I'm really just itching to hit 60mph. I just want the best prop to get me there. So far the best performing prop has been the abc 1815. So i might just try one of those. I'm not sure what to do lol

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulfromtulsa View Post
    I'm really just itching to hit 60mph. I just want the best prop to get me there. So far the best performing prop has been the abc 1815. So i might just try one of those. I'm not sure what to do lol
    Do note that Shua has a different rudder and billet trim tabs on his boat. Not sure if it helps but I do know the rudder he's using is a very good one and having the speed master trim tabs are definitely a plus. But for sure the 1815 is a very good prop.
    Last edited by kfxguy; 09-08-2015 at 01:46 AM.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  6. #126
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    KFX, are the ABC props you run 10 or 17 degree rake angle?

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfxguy View Post
    Do note that Shua has a different rudder and billet trim tabs on his boat. Not sure if it helps but I do know the rudder he's using is a very good one and having the speed master trim tabs are definitely a plus. But for sure the 1815 is a very good prop.
    This is correct and I already upgraded to the Seaking 180 esc with an additional cap bank. I do not know If the props I'm trying would be safe for the stock speed controller. I would wager NOT.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by shua View Post
    This is correct and I already upgraded to the Seaking 180 esc with an additional cap bank. I do not know If the props I'm trying would be safe for the stock speed controller. I would wager NOT.


    That's a sexy rear end. Lol
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by arrover View Post
    KFX, are the ABC props you run 10 or 17 degree rake angle?

    1814 is a 10 degree and 1815 is a 17 degree. Abc is coming out with a 1814 (1.4 pitch vs 1.5 pitch) 17 degree rake version with the 45 blade area. Should be a good runner on this boat.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  10. #130
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    Thanks for the information!

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfxguy View Post
    That's a sexy rear end. Lol
    Thanks! I decided to name her as well.


  12. #132
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    I ran an ABC 1915-17-45 this morning. Still stock motor and ESC. Water was glassy and I don't have this prop quite as sharp as it probably should be. A little breeze and a sharper prop might get a little more but anyway..... 57.3mph on 6S and 36.1mph on 4S. This prop has a pretty good amount of slip on acceleration from a stop and in tighter or slow corners. Boat is still handling great though. Lots of fun. Here are some temps. I would run a 2-3 quick passes and then bring it in read temps. I did not run full packs so these temps could go higher.

    ESC - 126
    Motor - 105
    Batts - 95 95
    ESC caps - 170
    Motor connectors - 120ish

    1915-17prop1 (Medium).JPG 1915-17prop2 (Medium).JPG

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by arrover View Post
    I ran an ABC 1915-17-45 this morning. Still stock motor and ESC. Water was glassy and I don't have this prop quite as sharp as it probably should be. A little breeze and a sharper prop might get a little more but anyway..... 57.3mph on 6S and 36.1mph on 4S. This prop has a pretty good amount of slip on acceleration from a stop and in tighter or slow corners. Boat is still handling great though. Lots of fun. Here are some temps. I would run a 2-3 quick passes and then bring it in read temps. I did not run full packs so these temps could go higher.

    ESC - 126
    Motor - 105
    Batts - 95 95
    ESC caps - 170
    Motor connectors - 120ish

    1915-17prop1 (Medium).JPG 1915-17prop2 (Medium).JPG
    So out of all your props which one yields the highest mph? Im still trying to decide on which prop to buy

  14. #134
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    So far this is the fastest that I have run but I only have 6 or 8 props currently. I'm having fun trying different things. What's amazing to me is that the 4S speed with this prop was 21mph slower than 6S.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by shua View Post
    Thanks! I decided to name her as well.




    Man that thing looks so good!
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by arrover View Post
    So far this is the fastest that I have run but I only have 6 or 8 props currently. I'm having fun trying different things. What's amazing to me is that the 4S speed with this prop was 21mph slower than 6S.

    The reason is on 4s it doesn't have enough nuts to turn that prop efficiently.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  17. #137
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    Sorry guys, I can no longer hold out on keeping this thing bone stock. I feel that it really needs a good set of trim tabs so I'll be putting a set of speed master ones on probably tonight.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfxguy View Post
    Sorry guys, I can no longer hold out on keeping this thing bone stock. I feel that it really needs a good set of trim tabs so I'll be putting a set of speed master ones on probably tonight.
    No problem! We just need pictures that's all.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by arrover View Post
    So far this is the fastest that I have run but I only have 6 or 8 props currently. I'm having fun trying different things. What's amazing to me is that the 4S speed with this prop was 21mph slower than 6S.
    Quote Originally Posted by kfxguy View Post
    The reason is on 4s it doesn't have enough nuts to turn that prop efficiently.
    That's not the reason...

    The motor has the same "nuts" regardless, but you have lowered the RPM down considerably on 4S.

    If we are being honest here, a 1650KV motor is really NOT a 6S motor. That's a 36,630RPM setup, which are RPMs generally reserved for Hydros and sometimes Sport Hydros.

    Monos that are setup correctly run in the 25,000 to 30,000 RPM range. A 35,000RPM+ Mono is usually reserved for SAW or 2-Lap Time-Trial stuff...

    SOOOO... INORDER for you to run a 36000RPM setup in a 36" boat, you have to prop DOWN to a prop that won't burn up the motor.

    On 4S, you can get away with considerably more prop. You shouldn't expect the much smaller prop needed to safely run 6S to work well at all given 4S RPMs (24,420 or so @3.7V/cell).

    However, if you know what you are doing, I see no reason why you can't get reasonably close to 6S speeds on 4S, if you know how to choose the right prop.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

  20. #140
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    Thanks Darin. I wasn't upset or put off by the 4S performance. I like to run the same prop on 6s and 4s just to see the difference. This is only my second boat so I'm enjoying learning about how the prop/motor/esc/batteries work together.

  21. #141
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    Has anyone put a real data recorder on one of these setups to see what the LOADED RPM is?

    I'd be curious to know. I think I may have that data at home somewhere (when I tested these, I put in an ICE200 so I could see what was really going on), but I did almost all my running with the stock prop, so I'd be curious as to what your data is saying.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darin Jordan View Post
    That's not the reason...

    The motor has the same "nuts" regardless, but you have lowered the RPM down considerably on 4S.

    If we are being honest here, a 1650KV motor is really NOT a 6S motor. That's a 36,630RPM setup, which are RPMs generally reserved for Hydros and sometimes Sport Hydros.

    Monos that are setup correctly run in the 25,000 to 30,000 RPM range. A 35,000RPM+ Mono is usually reserved for SAW or 2-Lap Time-Trial stuff...

    SOOOO... INORDER for you to run a 36000RPM setup in a 36" boat, you have to prop DOWN to a prop that won't burn up the motor.

    On 4S, you can get away with considerably more prop. You shouldn't expect the much smaller prop needed to safely run 6S to work well at all given 4S RPMs (24,420 or so @3.7V/cell).

    However, if you know what you are doing, I see no reason why you can't get reasonably close to 6S speeds on 4S, if you know how to choose the right prop.
    I'm going to apologize ahead of time for being blunt, but it is what it is. First off, not any one person knows everything, including you. Secondly, I'll stand by what I said and I have proof. How you say? Well with a 1915 on 4s it runs around 34-35 mph. Went 58 on 6s. Then on 4s with less prop it went 39. Same less prop it went 52. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about either but it seems to me that with an aggressive prop on 4s the motor has a harder time turning it but use 6s and it has the power to turn it. Prop down on 4s and it goes faster but the same prop goes slower on 6s. I also learned this on my 91mph mono.

    Sorry but 35-36k rpm is not "saw" rpm anymore. Maybe 10 or even 5 years ago when motors weren't built as well. But today's quality is much better. I've yet to have a boat motor failure due to high rpm. I'm really tired of people thinking this way. It gets old. No, it's gotten old. I suggest you get with the times. :)


    Guys, 6s with 1650kv is perfectly fine ALL DAY LONG. don't be fooled.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darin Jordan View Post
    Has anyone put a real data recorder on one of these setups to see what the LOADED RPM is?

    I'd be curious to know. I think I may have that data at home somewhere (when I tested these, I put in an ICE200 so I could see what was really going on), but I did almost all my running with the stock prop, so I'd be curious as to what your data is saying.

    I have a data logging mgm Esc in mine. Haven't pulled the logs yet. Pull them tonight. They won't be an accurate representation however. The boat was ran in some nasty seaweed water and only had a top speed of 44mph on 6s.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfxguy View Post
    I suggest you get with the times. :).
    Yeah... OK... I'll keep that in mind.


    I think I should just stop testing/designing/developing and racing boats because I'm a little too behind the times.

    Not sure how my 1500KV powered IM31 can outrun a 2030 powered Revolt... maybe I just imagined that.

    Newsflash... We were running Neu Motors 10-Years ago.... They were MORE powerful and MORE robust back then, and the same RPM principles applied.

    The ONLY reason you are getting away with it now is because the ESCs have gotten MORE robust, and will handle more abuse. The motors haven't really changed, and these RTR motors can't really be considered the prime example of "quality" motors. Better than previous RTR motors, but not a Lehner or Neu.

    But, hey, what do I know.

    Just because YOU can't do it, doesn't mean it isn't done.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfxguy View Post
    I have a data logging mgm Esc in mine. Haven't pulled the logs yet. Pull them tonight. They won't be an accurate representation however. The boat was ran in some nasty seaweed water and only had a top speed of 44mph on 6s.

    OK, well when you get some clean data, let us know.

    I'll have a look at mine tonight.

    I just want to see how the RPMs are under a given load.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darin Jordan View Post
    Yeah... OK... I'll keep that in mind.


    I think I should just stop testing/designing/developing and racing boats because I'm a little too behind the times.

    Not sure how my 1500KV powered IM31 can outrun a 2030 powered Revolt... maybe I just imagined that.

    Newsflash... We were running Neu Motors 10-Years ago.... They were MORE powerful and MORE robust back then, and the same RPM principles applied.

    The ONLY reason you are getting away with it now is because the ESCs have gotten MORE robust, and will handle more abuse. The motors haven't really changed, and these RTR motors can't really be considered the prime example of "quality" motors. Better than previous RTR motors, but not a Lehner or Neu.

    But, hey, what do I know.

    Just because YOU can't do it, doesn't mean it isn't done.
    Id be impressed if you can make this hull do 60 on 4s reliably with all stock components. It sounds to me that's what your saying you can do, so let's see it.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfxguy View Post
    Id be impressed if you can make this hull do 60 on 4s reliably with all stock components. It sounds to me that's what your saying you can do, so let's see it.
    I'll give it a try, but I need to see the RPMs under load first. I also want to see the amp draw of your setups at those speeds.


    And I didn't exactly say that... I said "reasonably close". There are efficiency of the prop issues that come into play as well that RPMs do make up for. The solution isn't always just a "bigger prop" (whatever the heck that actually means).
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

  28. #148
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    Pulled data log. Glad I did. Was only getting about 83% throttle. Need to recalibrate I guess.

    Max amps seen was 123a and it was more around 115 when levels off.

    Just realized I had it set to 4 pole also. Not sure it that makes a difference in power or heat but I know it does in the data log. Just ran another after fixing the throttle and it's getting 100% now.


    I changed the trim tabs tonight and since I had to remove the rudder to do it I went ahead and put a different rudder on it with a kick back feature. Last lake I ran it made me nervous that I was going to break the rudder off because it has no break away. So now I feel better about it. Kintec sells these rudders so it's nothing special. Same exact length as the sticker and the same width. I think the trim tabs are going to allow me to dial it in much easier. I'll report back after I run it.
    Last edited by kfxguy; 09-12-2015 at 02:04 AM.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  29. #149
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    Excuse my ignorance, but how do you set the throttle position? Assuming you are using the standard surface radio that is included?

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfxguy View Post
    Pulled data log. Glad I did. Was only getting about 83% throttle. Need to recalibrate I guess.

    Max amps seen was 123a and it was more around 115 when levels off.

    Just realized I had it set to 4 pole also. Not sure it that makes a difference in power or heat but I know it does in the data log. Just ran another after fixing the throttle and it's getting 100% now.


    I changed the trim tabs tonight and since I had to remove the rudder to do it I went ahead and put a different rudder on it with a kick back feature. Last lake I ran it made me nervous that I was going to break the rudder off because it has no break away. So now I feel better about it. Kintec sells these rudders so it's nothing special. Same exact length as the sticker and the same width. I think the trim tabs are going to allow me to dial it in much easier. I'll report back after I run it.
    Hey, can I get part# for the mods,knowing you had to drill and refill holes.

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