The Voracity tuning thread

[Rafael_Lopez]

Big thanx for the fast response. Went out today with a lot more wind and indeed: top speed reached 52 mph. Only one downside: it flipped and now there is a crack at the top of the transom at the side of rudder for half the width of the boat... I believe this shouldn't be possible and is a fabrixation issue? Do you perhaps heard of more like this?

Sorry to hear you crashed your boat and it developed a crack. Unfortunately we don't see this as a defect any more than we would call crashing an R/C car in to a curb or a tree at that speed, and expect nothing to break; wanting to blame a broken part as defective. The reality is that water, as much as we like to think that it is, is not soft when hit at that speed. You can try and reach out to your retailer and see what they say, but I doubt they will replace it. If you notice, on the box it states that max speed is obtained in favorable conditions, which means in calm waters. Through testing, I never wiped out at full speed (box stock) in calm water, The boat is actually very stable in favorable conditions and it is rare to have a crash on the water for no reason; unless you hit floating debris.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Today I ran an ABC 2314-10-50 to 72.3mph on 6S. I tried to run a 2314 a few weeks ago and that's when I hit something and hurt the rudder and prop. Today I was able to get some good passes in on fast water but the speed wasn't as high as I expected. It basically ran the same as my 2214-10-50. That's kind of a head scratcher. I do feel like I'm at the limit of diameter though. This huge prop chine walks fairly badly on smooth water and even a little wobble on wind blown water. Then at the end of several runs I hit something and hurt the second prop and rudder AGAIN. Frustrating but it's fun watching the boat run fast. Still running the Leopard 4092 and Turnigy 180a ESC.

Attachment 139840

Wow, I'm amazed at how much speed you have managed to get out of this hull. When I developed the boat, I never imagined people taking it that fast. Good job and thanks for sharing.

[Voracity]

Hi Rafael, thx for your reply, but i don't understand. I only went out with the boat twice (!) and nothing really bad happened, i didn't hit anything, there was no 'crash'. Yes, the water was more choppy than before but nothing extreme. The flip i referred to was in a corner and really smal and not even on top speed. I think every rc boat flips many times in its life, it should be able to handle some force at least. Friends of my have miss geico and Genesis and also these boats flip now and then because of wind getting under. It is no problem to the hulls at all.

With the voracity the crack is exactly in the same places als many others also had, see http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...2454780&page=3 for storys and pictures of exactly the same crack. You responded in this forum that this should not be possible... And the hull is replaced under warranty with the exact same issue, you contacted customer service Yourself and somebody else stated he got a replacement from horizon. You also stated that with future boats "the adhesive Will be spread more evenly on both sides of the hull to prevent this from happening".

So now i am confused?

[Rafael_Lopez]

By what I saw in your post it read like you crashed at speed; 52 MPH, in choppy conditions. I wont speculate on what happened in your case, but I have been looking in to this more. During a crash, the rudder can leverage itself sideways and put excessive force on the rudder mount that would cause that type of damage. Nothing a break away rudder would prevent. I broke a transom recently by hand and I had to wedge the hull between my legs and crank on the rudder pretty hard to pop the hull; at the transom. Not the type of damage cause by a small slow speed crash. Again, I'm not speculating on what happened in your case, I'm just explaining what I am finding out, looking in to this myself.

Please show me pictures of the damage on your hull and of your boat, in general.

To hopefully clear up your confusion, I have not found a lack of adhesive which would lead to this issue, but I asked that we add more to prevent any that could have an issue. When I looked in to this last we have a total of 4 boats with this issue out of multiple hundreds that we've sold so far, less than 0.7% have had this issue. The hulls that were replaced were replaced because they also had a long crack along the seam of the boat, along the side, other than just on the transom issue. Every case is assessed individually after reviewing pictures of the damage.

[Voracity]

image.jpgimage.jpg

[Voracity]

Hi rafael

Thx for your response. I appreciatie this! I have attached the pictures.

Best regards. Joost

[Voracity]

Do you recommend firming the transom of the boat with carbon/epoxy to prevent this happening?

[oscarel]

Hi Rafael, thx for your reply, but i don't understand. I only went out with the boat twice (!) and nothing really bad happened, i didn't hit anything, there was no 'crash'. Yes, the water was more choppy than before but nothing extreme. The flip i referred to was in a corner and really smal and not even on top speed. I think every rc boat flips many times in its life, it should be able to handle some force at least. Friends of my have miss geico and Genesis and also these boats flip now and then because of wind getting under. It is no problem to the hulls at all.

With the voracity the crack is exactly in the same places als many others also had, see http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...2454780&page=3 for storys and pictures of exactly the same crack. You responded in this forum that this should not be possible... And the hull is replaced under warranty with the exact same issue, you contacted customer service Yourself and somebody else stated he got a replacement from horizon. You also stated that with future boats "the adhesive Will be spread more evenly on both sides of the hull to prevent this from happening".

So now i am confused?

I've had boats that have done this and even though it seems like an innocent crash the water some times isn't as forgiving as you'd expect.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Exactly what I experienced on my end. It seems that the transom damage is due to excessive force on the rudder bracket. You see how the transom is now pulled away from the top half of the hull? Almost as if pulled away from the transom. The rudder stand off acts like a lever, it doesn't need that much force to break the transom if it hits the water at the right angle. Not something I could have replicated during development, unfortunately, I never experienced anything like this.


Because you are in NL, you have to contact your dealer and they may contact Horizon Hobby DE and request this be looked at. It is up to them if they feel they want to replace it. Now that I've looked in to this on my end, I don't see it as being a "defect" or their being a lack of resin/glue, which is causing this specific issue. Its just the way the boat hits the water; it's a pretty heavy boat with batteries in it.


Again, I just want to be clear, I'm not saying they wont replace it.

As far as reinforcing, it's really up to you. There is one guy on here that has shown me videos and he runs on a very, very, choppy river and in his case I would say reinforce it. For you, it depends on where you run. I specified the boats to be laid up thicker than we have ever made boats before so that people don't have the need to reinforce them, like most other brand boats that I've owned prior to working here, but keep in mind that adding too much weight will hinder performance.

[badlaa]

Hi, I bought last month in a local retailer here in Italy the Proboat Voracity and also two suggested batteries Dynamite 50C 5000 3S with EC5 connectors. But I am not satisfied at all with the max speed, which on my voracity, is far away from 50mph...in totally flat water the max speed is 43mph...and I have an accurate garmin GPS on board.
The Dynamite batteries are all back in the right CG. position for flat water.
My blackjack 29 V3 is faster reaching 45mph stock with the dynamite lipos.
What can I do with my boat? I have bought it since you write it is 50mph STOCK in flat water and with suggested batteries but mine is 7mph slower.
What can I do???

Thank you

Marco

[Crash]

Hi, I bought last month in a local retailer here in Italy the Proboat Voracity and also two suggested batteries Dynamite 50C 5000 3S with EC5 connectors. But I am not satisfied at all with the max speed, which on my voracity, is far away from 50mph...in totally flat water the max speed is 43mph...and I have an accurate garmin GPS on board.
The Dynamite batteries are all back in the right CG. position for flat water.
My blackjack 29 V3 is faster reaching 45mph stock with the dynamite lipos.
What can I do with my boat? I have bought it since you write it is 50mph STOCK in flat water and with suggested batteries but mine is 7mph slower.
What can I do???

Thank you

Marco

Mine ran 43 mph out the box as well.

[arrover]

My boat ran 48.7 stock. It might have run faster stock but I started playing with different props right away. Water conditions can change your speed by 2-3mph pretty easily. Totally flat water will be slower than water with a rippled surface (tiny waves, not big ones). How are your trim tabs adjusted? If you put a straight edge on the hull, the tip of the trim tabs should just barely touch it. You should also check your strut level. It sounds like maybe yours is to low causing the boat to run wet. That causes more drag and slower speeds. Adjust the strut up a little and retest. Small changes in strut height can make big changes in the handling. If you adjust it up to far, the boat will become unstable and more susceptible to wrecking.

[badlaa]

My boat ran 48.7 stock. It might have run faster stock but I started playing with different props right away. Water conditions can change your speed by 2-3mph pretty easily. Totally flat water will be slower than water with a rippled surface (tiny waves, not big ones). How are your trim tabs adjusted? If you put a straight edge on the hull, the tip of the trim tabs should just barely touch it. You should also check your strut level. It sounds like maybe yours is to low causing the boat to run wet. That causes more drag and slower speeds. Adjust the strut up a little and retest. Small changes in strut height can make big changes in the handling. If you adjust it up to far, the boat will become unstable and more susceptible to wrecking.

I will post a photo as soon as I can so you can see how the strut and the trim tabs are by stock...thank you for your reply :-)

[badlaa]

Here a few photos of my batteries position, strut and trim tabs.
Is there something wrong?
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kqpj2haby...h6wewTCLa?dl=0

Thank you

Marco

[Rafael_Lopez]

One thing that also comes in to play is what we call "heavy water", especially for a V or mono that is cutting through the water; not so much for a cat or a hydro. What this means is that some water is heavier in mineral and plant content which causes the boat to be slower as it requires more power to cut through the water. In our case here in California, the drought has cause the water to thicken up. I can run in the lake near our office and be 2-3 mph slower than at another body of water where the Water District filters the water.

Another thing is that most GPS units take about 7 seconds to get max MPH. I have verified this with my Garmin eTrex, Garmin Fore Runner and our Dynamite GPS, while in my car. They all take an average of 7 seconds to register a steady speed; max speed. When taking reading with a GPS unit make sure you have enough space and get as long of a run as you can to allow the GPS to top out and register the max speed.

I'll post the video again of me doing 52 with a production boat. This is completely raw, unedited video of one of my speed runs where I get 52 mph. This is the lake where they filter the water. Notice how clear the water is.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vIBa1imVZE

[arrover]

Its really hard to tell from pictures. It sort of looks like the strut might be to low but again, hard to tell from pictures. That is the same as being "trimmed down" so it would put more of the nose of the boat in the water and cause more drag. Trim it up by raising the strut slightly. Try to measure precisely where it is now before you loosen the bolts. The trim tabs look ok but it's hard to tell without a straight edge on the bottom of the hull to compare them to. Does your prop look ok? No big burrs or casting marks on it? Does the prop look bent at all? Just to make sure, have you been greasing the flex shaft?

[badlaa]

Thank you Rafael and Arrover. I will try the tips you gave me! 😊

[Crash]

One thing that also comes in to play is what we call "heavy water", especially for a V or mono that is cutting through the water; not so much for a cat or a hydro. What this means is that some water is heavier in mineral and plant content which causes the boat to be slower as it requires more power to cut through the water. In our case here in California, the drought has cause the water to thicken up. I can run in the lake near our office and be 2-3 mph slower than at another body of water where the Water District filters the water.

Another thing is that most GPS units take about 7 seconds to get max MPH. I have verified this with my Garmin eTrex, Garmin Fore Runner and our Dynamite GPS, while in my car. They all take an average of 7 seconds to register a steady speed; max speed. When taking reading with a GPS unit make sure you have enough space and get as long of a run as you can to allow the GPS to top out and register the max speed.

I'll post the video again of me doing 52 with a production boat. This is completely raw, unedited video of one of my speed runs where I get 52 mph. This is the lake where they filter the water. Notice how clear the water is.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vIBa1imVZE

Great point Rafael

I can tell now by the amount of boat that's out of the water when its going fast.
It has to get a lot of hull out of the water to go over 50mph.
then your on the edge of disaster over the recommended speed for this hull....lol
The stock speed is perfect imo for this boat.
great product, incredible customer support.
Dan

[killerbob]

Hi All ..

Just recently found this forum - and for fast electrics it seems to be the place to be..

To be honest I have not read this entire thread - just about half of it. Someone asked for logging data - and I do not know if someone else have posted... But I run telemetry and I have a lot of data..

First I should probably mention that I run the X452 prop - otherwise stock setup... At least until the water around here goes liquid again - then I will be continuing with the Turnigy 180A Marine ESC as the stock Dynamite ESC have developed a nasty habit with fluctuating BEC voltage - it is starting at 6.0 and then goes to 8... that causes "something" in my receiver causing temperature alarms. I have also ordered a Leopard 4092... BUT this is for the coming season... The data I have is for STOCK Voracity running 6s with the x452 balanced and sharpened

RPM at full speed: 31.600
Max Amps recorded 147.2 (apart from the BEC problem it is holding up fine)
Voltage under max load 21.0 V
Max wattage: 3,090 W ( 4,2 HP )
Max speed recorded 55.2 (BUT this might very well be wrong - my pond is very small and I have approx 3 secs at full speed - and that is not enough for a proper GPS measurement)

Hope this is helpful

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIi2ptTH7Yw
Note: Typo in the video about the prop - it IS the x452

[arrover]

I guess I should have looked at your username before posting...... Thanks for the data. Very interesting! I think your boat is most likely faster than the 55mph. It should run around 60 with that prop. 3 seconds probably isn't enough, like you say.

[killerbob]

Arrower - no need to delete the numbers. They are relevant for a completely stock ship. The numbers I posted here are with the octura prop. Of cause they are higher.

But yes - same guy... Just like most of us visit different ponds - we also visit different forums :)

[angrycat]

killerbob what are you using to log? whatts up meter?

[arrover]

Sorry about that. I just didn't want to step on your toes since you've done the work of logging the data. Thanks again for that. I visit other boat forums but this is the only one that I look at regularly. Sometimes I just can't get enough RC boat info!

[killerbob]

I have replaced the stock radio with graupner. I have a mz24 and the transmitter logs whatever is connected to the telemetry. I use the UnisensE from sm modellbau for measuring motordata like voltage, current and rpm. I also have the graupner gps module that really is intended as vario module for airplanes - so it also measures flying height :) and of cause sh**loads of gps data

[angrycat]

i was wondering more or less what you had measuring wattage and amperage, would you recommend the unisense over a wattsup? my next esc will either be a hydra (if i can freaking find one) or a etti and will obviously have logging but for now i need something just to get an idea of whats going on under the hood

[killerbob]

I do not know wattsup. But the unisensE Products are good and they support most telemetry systems. They do NOT log anything in the boat but transmits data 10 times a second to the TX. My TX can then log the data only limited by the size of the sd card plugged into the TX. The UnisensE is small and comes in both 140A and 280A versions...

[revoltrunner]

I bought a bare hull from a member
here and started the mods on it. waiting
for parts. more to come.

[Crash]

I like it, who makes it and whats the part number. I wouldn't mind something like that on mine.
Does that come with the speed master bushing ?
dan

[revoltrunner]

I've had that for long time but it looks like this one
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...os-stinger-str

[Voracity]

Hi guys

Wat remplacement props do you recommend to safely use with everthing else stock and which major upgrades (esc, motor, prop) if i would like to make a big change (65 mph range). Leopard and turnigy 180? Are there things to consider here or just swap engine and esc? Do you have reinforcements in the hull? I am planning to use carbon/kevlar on inside