Shocker 2nd Rebuild - Video

[dmitry100]

Hi,

So I finally rebuilt my Shocker with new OSE 3/16 drives, stuffing tubes, OSE .187 flex (was .15 originally), MBP collets, OSE STS 187 (Shaft Tube Seal/Flex Saver), new pair of 2050kv TP 4050's, and fiberglass inlay. All this took me almost 2 weeks to do. I was surprised by how time consuming everything was especially mounting the drives with the stabilizer mounts which weren't exactly a 100% fit for this hull, but it works.

Here is my 3rd run with a bit of adjustment to trim with 445 CNC props (started with 442's). Temp's were barely warm to touch on 442s so I moved onto 445s.
My cheap $50 gps clocked this run here at 70mph... but I think if I ran on the bigger part of the lake I'd probably get some better speed readings since it's not one of those $150 high sensitivity garmin gps's.



This last run motor and ESC temps were fine. Except the revo lipos which were around 95*F+ when I checked... some of them were slightly puffy. :-/
They are back to normal now. Voltage readings on the cells were always perfect matching with all 4 3s packs (4.275v etc) but now when I recharged them afterwards they all show 1: 4.223V 2: 4.265 3: 4.247
Not sure why the packs were that hot but I think it might of been due to placing them between foam which I was hoping would be a good idea for extra floatation just in case and to keep them in place.
So I'm currently cycling the lipos on the Cellpro powerlab so hopefully these packs aren't ruined.

Some pics of under the hood:

Photo Jun 13, 1 32 37 PM.jpg
Photo Jun 16, 2 21 35 PM.jpg

My only complaint so far is my Flysky GT3C radio... response starts lagging by 1 seconds when its at a distance which is why the boat flipped in the video. So I guess I'll be shopping for a new radio so if you guys have any suggestions let me know :)

Anyway... thoughts? suggestions? Except the lipo thing I'm happy with the boat so far.

[lt130th]

Really makes me want to get started on mine. I've had a carbon Shocker SAW hull for about a year, & have everything for it, but I've been building other boats. Could only be me, but that looks like more than 70mph. You might be right -need more space to sustain speed for your GPS to log it? I'll be using my TP 4060's to turn a set of 45mm 3-blades that dasboata worked up for me. Shooting for triple digits. I would think your setup would get you pretty close, too.

[dmitry100]

I was actually thinking to throw some boca bearings I bought into those OSE drives I have there. Not sure how much of a performance increase I'd get versus the time trying to machine them to make them fit though.

But yea, that... or I should prob get a new GPS :) theres some newer model garmin's on ebay for around $60 bucks.

Is that the version of the shocker that Fightercat used to sell? I wish they still had them in stock... I would have gotten one from there.

[srislash]

Looks good Dmitry, more room is certainly needed. It certainly has more than 70 in it but doubt you'll get it there. But it looks good and stable. Everything came back with good temps?

[flraptor07]

Man that thing screams! If you ever got it in a bigger lake where you could run it out, it would probably run around mid 80s. Temp wise on the batteries 95deg. is not to bad but I don't know what to tell you on the puffing, except if the outter wrapping is sealed real good sometimes the trapped air will expand and it will appear that the battery has puffed when it really hasn't.

[dmitry100]

Yep! Today's passes clocked 80 mph on that GPS and I ran it in the same place except I ran it a tad bit farther across the lake this time.
I probably wouldn't be able to control it any farther than this though... the radio lag really makes it harder to control the throttle and turns at a distance.
Would a better radio fix this, or is this something most radios experience on water?

srislash: Temps were always looking great, barely warm on every half dozen passes... even the lipo temps are fine except only after I check after lipo cut off (which is set at the highest of 3.3V in the SF esc) I noticed the lipo temps were around 98 to 109* F... the part of the lipos were a lot cooler-- about 85-90* F. I just hope I'm not killing these lipos... I think I definitely need to give the lipos more room to breath. I even removed most of the foam around them this time around and it didn't seem to make much diff. After cut off -- cell voltages would show 3.40 to 3.45V on one set of packs and 3.33 to 3.38 V per cell on the other set of packs. I'm assuming that slight variation in voltage between sides is normal.

flraptor07: So its normal for them to expand a bit after running? (they do go back to normal when cooling down after around 15 mins)

[dmitry100]

After some research 40-45* C temps are pretty normal after a run... and it seems that Revo packs are capable of taking alot more heat.

So I'm thinking now to go and give it a shot with the next step: 448 CNC prop.

I'll let you guys know how it goes :)

[flraptor07]

flraptor07: So its normal for them to expand a bit after running? (they do go back to normal when cooling down after around 15 mins)[/QUOTE]
No the pack shouldn't puff, sometimes it's the wrap is sealed real tight and the trapped air expands in the wrapping and makes it look like they puffed. You can feel it if you squeeze the pack and it feels like a air cushion then it's just the expanded air. A pack that has puffed will feel harder and usually doesn't go back to normal.

[flraptor07]

CF boats will sometimes have radio issues, you need to be sure there is enough antenna sticking up through the antenna tube.

[Luck as a Constant]

Nice job Dmitry!
Next time you can just build your own boat instead of paying extra for all that crap you had to rip out lol
Boat rips dude


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[dmitry100]

Luck: Thanks. Well I made a paypal claim for that thing man... but they want me to send it back to get covered by buyer protection. So I'm gonna try to get him to send me a partial refund.

Or perhaps if someone has a CF Shocker or Daytona hull they want to sell to me then I could prob just send it back to the seller and do an extra nice rebuild without the extra holes or things like that this time lol.

flraptor07: The antenna sticking out is as long as the plastic tube (if you check pics). So I tried to make it as long as possible... but the receiver antenna is kind of short though. It is pretty long right now. So maybe I should invest into some better radio. I could already imagine a crash from all that lag in the radio.

[srislash]

After some research 40-45* C temps are pretty normal after a run... and it seems that Revo packs are capable of taking alot more heat.

So I'm thinking now to go and give it a shot with the next step: 448 CNC prop.

I'll let you guys know how it goes :)

Temps are fine but the lipos are puffing because you are running them too low. 3.3 or 3.4volts is too low. 3.75 or higher is ideal. 3.6 acceptable. Your lipos will live a long time if you follow this. It took me a while to learn this and since I have adopted this my lipos are still good. Just words of advice Dmitry. You'll get used to a certain runtime after awhile but to learn it you could use a timer to warn you of the time.

Sometimes like Chris stated lipos go back to regular size. Have yours?

[dmitry100]

Yea, felt like air both times and they go back to normal shortly after.

I just wish I was able to set the cut off voltage higher in the SF ESC. Kind of weird that 3.3v cut off is the highest we are able to set them to in their programming.

I'll definitely keep that in mind. So I take it that draining them to 3.35v to 3.40v is the reason why they would even get that warm in the first place?

[srislash]

Yes this also contributes to the heat. There is a nice 'happy' spot where you have drained the capacity down but not the voltage. And at that spot you should have used 75-80% of capacity. The battery starts to work to give any more up and then more heat occurs.

[Luck as a Constant]

Shawn is correct. Most of the heat generated is at the end of the run when the voltage starts to drop. When that happens things heat up real fast, so ideally you try not to get to that point.


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[kfxguy]

I think part of the reason they are puffing is because your nailing it from a dead stop. Looks cool and all but is very hard on your equipment. Also, swordfish escs have a lag when you let off. All mine have anyway.

[Luck as a Constant]

I've never puffed cells from hammering the throttle. "Shrug"

It's always been from running too long. Always.



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[dmitry100]

Tested it with 448 cnc right before my flight to LA.....

Needless I almost missed my flight and gf was pissed :D

But The speed of it was one whole other level with this prop though...
I'm excited to find out what it's clocking on the gps with a more distance run Once I'm back home.

Temps looked like this from a couple passes in between my checks:
Motor temps were actually fine as before maybe marginal increase.
Lipos were fine.
ESC increase in temps were the most noticeable and significant after this change which went from barely warm to around 95* F.

I'll have more specific ESC log data from the SF once I'm back...
Curious what amp's and rpm's I'm pulling here's.

I gotta say... This prop is HUGE compared to the 442's I started with and I'm surprised it's able to spin such a big prop.

One thing that bothers me is that the "max amps" specs off the TP motor site says only 150 amps.
I think I'm a bit beyond that I think... Definitely will check logs to be sure.
Just how much past the specs are you guys able to push these guys safely?

[kfxguy]

I've never puffed cells from hammering the throttle. "Shrug"

It's always been from running too long. Always.



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Ill just quit trying to help people. Always have someone to disagree. I guess I must know literally nothing about nothing. Well no worries, I won't be answering any more questions or giving any more advice.

[Luck as a Constant]

Ill just quit trying to help people. Always have someone to disagree. I guess I must know literally nothing about nothing. Well no worries, I won't be answering any more questions or giving any more advice.

Stop it.
Jesus dude, I can't even share my experiences that differ from yours without you crying like a baby about it.

I've never puffed batteries from hammering the throttle, is that ok with you?

Dmitry can take your advice or mine. I could care less. But who really cares?
Move on...

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[lt130th]

This reminds me of the Ford fans vs GM fans. One side says all their Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, etc. vehicles have been nightmares and all their Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, etc. vehicles have been a dream...while the other side says all their Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, etc. vehicles have been wonderful and all their Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, etc. vehicles have been crap. No matter what, there will always be opposition to anything anyone says, good or bad, about any car make & model. The important thing is to remember, at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. Humans are silly creatures. I bet the rest of the animal kingdom wishes we'd just shuffle off to play out our drama on some other planet. Their all rolling their eyes at us.

As far as puffed LiPo's go, I'm a throw caution to the wind kind of guy, so I say don't worry about it until cells really stop charging. In MY experience, the only thing truly constant from one RC boater, to the next, is the money flowing out of our wallets for this hobby.

[dmitry100]

As far as puffed LiPo's go, I'm a throw caution to the wind kind of guy, so I say don't worry about it until cells really stop charging. In MY experience, the only thing truly constant from one RC boater, to the next, is the money flowing out of our wallets for this hobby.

Yea I don't think it's puffing ... Just trapped air. I have seen a few puffed lipos and this wasn't it. Both times it was the same and went back to normal shortly after cooling down. But yea i could def see how punching the throttle like that could stress the crap out of them though.

All your guys' advice is good... Learning a lot here so keep it coming

[kevinpratt823]

Punching the throttle at the beginning of the run is usually fine, but high draw when the cells get down on capacity will certainly do a number on them IME.

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[kevinpratt823]

There is a difference between "swelling" and "puffing". Lipos swell under normal use, and return close to normal at least, puffing does not return to normal.

I have run puffed packs that were still charging and balancing fine, but when they let go they blew up to 3x normal size and could easily have split a hull open, nevermind the potential of fire.

And fwiw, when a lipo puffs, it is usually from damage done a cycle or two before from what I have been told.

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[kevinpratt823]

Ill just quit trying to help people. Always have someone to disagree. I guess I must know literally nothing about nothing. Well no worries, I won't be answering any more questions or giving any more advice.

No offense dude, but you need to get over yourself. I'm not that important, and neither are you. Not everything anybody posts is an attack on you, it's called a "discussion" forum, people share their experiences, opinions, and once in a while a sneaky little fact even leaks through all the BS.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discussion

[tlandauer]

Hi Kevin, if the air is trapped in the wrapping, would it disappear if I puncture the wrap? (just for my curiosity). I have the "Blue wrapped" lipos that was quite popular a couple of years ago and they "air puff" easily, at the end of my run they all puff up, then goes down once it is cooled and charged back to storage voltage. I am not worried about the batteries as I have never over run them, but the puffy condition annoys me a bit from time to time. On the other hand, I had those relatively cheap SkyLipo, they are hard as a brick till this day and it's about 4+ years.

[tlandauer]

OP, I am sorry to go off topic, but I just want a quick answer here.

[kevinpratt823]

Hi Kevin, if the air is trapped in the wrapping, would it disappear if I puncture the wrap? (just for my curiosity). I have the "Blue wrapped" lipos that was quite popular a couple of years ago and they "air puff" easily, at the end of my run they all puff up, then goes down once it is cooled and charged back to storage voltage. I am not worried about the batteries as I have never over run them, but the puffy condition annoys me a bit from time to time. On the other hand, I had those relatively cheap SkyLipo, they are hard as a brick till this day and it's about 4+ years.

I didn't post about it, because I don't want people to get bad/dangerous ideas from me, and I knew many people would just shake their heads at the thought of it, but I was willing to accept the inherent danger, so here goes-

Last year I experimented with this. While separating a good, like new TP 6s into (2) seperate 3s packs, I inadvertently cut a small slice into the foil. I immediately covered it with electrical tape. I made a few successful runs with it, so I tried "venting" the air out of a couple packs that were puffed, but still charging/balancing. I knew that if the internals were exposed to moisture and other contaminates, things could get ugly real quick while discharging in the boat, so like I said, this was strictly an experiment. I'm the guy who absolutely has to pop the blister on his hand to let the fluid out, so the puffy packs were killing me lol. The second pack I tried to vent, the exacto blade went just a touch too far in, poked the cell, and I had an arc against the foil of some sort, that one went straight into the saltwater bucket, and I started to look at the other packs a little nervously. I believe I may have even gotten that lipo smell out of one of them when it came back from a run. I promptly began reconsidering even having these packs in my house, and the rest of them went in the saltwater bucket as well.

The thing is, this foil is some real impressive stuff. It holds that gas in really well, even when expanded. Nothing you do to repair a puncture is going to withstand the pressure of even normal swelling, and once those cells are exposed to moisture and other air contaminates that will inevitably find their way in, all bets are off. I was willing to risk my boat in this experiment, but I am not willing to risk my house and the people in it.

So in short, yes, if you puncture it the air will escape, but no, you should not do it IMO. It is a dangerous process in the first place, and extremely dangerous afterwards. Any lipo manufacturer will tell you that if that foil is damaged or compromised in any way to dispose of it. So any lipo that ever gives off that vented smell goes right in the bucket for me.

[tlandauer]

Thank you for your very informative reply.
Rest assured, I wasn't going to poke a hole in there, but I was just curious because I had no idea ( up until I just read your reply) that the foil can trap the air this well, to me it almost defied logic since the tire on my car doesn't hold air this good.
So glad I learned something. Thanks, man!

[flraptor07]

Thank you for your very informative reply.
Rest assured, I wasn't going to poke a hole in there, but I was just curious because I had no idea ( up until I just read your reply) that the foil can trap the air this well, to me it almost defied logic since the tire on my car doesn't hold air this good.
So glad I learned something. Thanks, man!

Yeah I've never tried to vent mine either, I've got a couple of Hyperions that will air swell the wrappers sometimes. I just deal with it and they return to normal when they cool.