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Thread: Dual rudder on the brushless fastec

  1. #1
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    Default Dual rudder on the brushless fastec

    So I am trying to put a second rudder on this thing. I finally became sick of the lack of response in left turns. Ran into a problem, I do not wanna drill another hole in the transom, I'd like to use linkage to steer it. when i connect it, the second rudder barely moves. Slightly frustrated. any help would be great.
    traxxas villain: ose 48mm prop kit, ose carbon turn fins, lego darth vader(driver)
    proboat formula fastech: dual rudder, hitec 5646, x442.

  2. #2
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    Cool

    You can use the threaded hole, that's meant for the water (intake) cooling line, as the pivot point for the linkage.....to connect to the 2nd rudder intake hole (pivot point). That's how I did my MC dual rudder set up...Note: I went with transom mounted water pick ups, since I used the intake holes for the linkage pivot points.... I used Revo turn buckles to link the two points (rudder) together...

    Works perfectly...and looks cool too!

    Aloha

  3. #3
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    Default

    Thanks for the suggestion Local Boy. I wound up drilling a large hole and installing bellows for a second linkage set.

    The left rudder is different from the right. Not sure why. Its the part number from ProBoats website. I'm gonna order another so they are identical.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    traxxas villain: ose 48mm prop kit, ose carbon turn fins, lego darth vader(driver)
    proboat formula fastech: dual rudder, hitec 5646, x442.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Looks good!

    Make sure you can adjust the individual rudders to get them aligned perfectly...or your steering will be negatively impacted.... Took me a few runs to get it just right (adjusting the rudders to be in sync)...so that it would have the same turning radius when turning left/right ... Then... enjoy turning at full throttle both ways!... : )

    Aloha

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zero_1 View Post
    So I am trying to put a second rudder on this thing. I finally became sick of the lack of response in left turns. Ran into a problem, I do not wanna drill another hole in the transom, I'd like to use linkage to steer it. when i connect it, the second rudder barely moves. Slightly frustrated. any help would be great.

    I have a question: Does the boat turn left without the turn fins with just as much difficulty as with the turn fins on? Before I saw your pictures, I thought may be with the turn fins removed things will get better, just curious....

    Looks Good though, very clean looking on the transom! I like the looks without the turn fins!
    Too many boats, not enough time...

  6. #6
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    Default

    Lol.. noticed the adjustment. Spent an hour or so setting it up on the stand. They look straight. Only a wet run will tell.
    I actually got lucky and was able to use 1 servo, happened that the Hitec servo came with it. lol.
    Proboat Formula Fastec 02.jpg
    traxxas villain: ose 48mm prop kit, ose carbon turn fins, lego darth vader(driver)
    proboat formula fastech: dual rudder, hitec 5646, x442.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Sweet...one servo is the way to go! Just be sure the steering rods are the same length or you will have some turning issues...Due to the rudders being mis-aligned...

    Good Luck!

    Aloha

  8. #8
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    Default

    Will do. Placed the order for a matching rudder a few hours ago.

    Passed a float test, so everything is sealed up proper. I'll run it when the matching rudder shows up.

    Thanks for the input!
    traxxas villain: ose 48mm prop kit, ose carbon turn fins, lego darth vader(driver)
    proboat formula fastech: dual rudder, hitec 5646, x442.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlandauer View Post
    I have a question: Does the boat turn left without the turn fins with just as much difficulty as with the turn fins on? Before I saw your pictures, I thought may be with the turn fins removed things will get better, just curious....

    Looks Good though, very clean looking on the transom! I like the looks without the turn fins!
    I would like to know if you had tried it with and w/o turn fins, I have two Fastech and although I understand the advantages of twin rudders, I have no plans to do it. Thanks in advance if you can drop me a line here.
    Too many boats, not enough time...

  10. #10
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    Default

    Nice implementation and craftsmanship. Looks good.

    I'm off the opinion, having raced one of these in P-LTD Mono many moons ago, that two rudders aren't necessary to get these to turn. I haven't seen too many applications where a second rudder really helped anything.

    I would have instead selected either a deeper rudder, and/or one with more chord. Two rudders increase drag more than most realize. You will lose speed. Make sure they are RAZOR sharp on the leading edge. These type of rudders typically have a small flat along the front. File it down and make them SHARP.

    As for the turn-fins. The factory turn fins extend straight down and in my opinion, hurt turning performance. However, if you bend them out, making them perpendicular to the hulls bottom, they work much, much better.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darin Jordan View Post
    Nice implementation and craftsmanship. Looks good.

    I'm off the opinion, having raced one of these in P-LTD Mono many moons ago, that two rudders aren't necessary to get these to turn. I haven't seen too many applications where a second rudder really helped anything.

    I would have instead selected either a deeper rudder, and/or one with more chord. Two rudders increase drag more than most realize. You will lose speed. Make sure they are RAZOR sharp on the leading edge. These type of rudders typically have a small flat along the front. File it down and make them SHARP.

    As for the turn-fins. The factory turn fins extend straight down and in my opinion, hurt turning performance. However, if you bend them out, making them perpendicular to the hulls bottom, they work much, much better.
    Thank you very much Darin. Very helpful advice .

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk
    Too many boats, not enough time...

  12. #12
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    Default

    I never ran it without turn fins. I wouldn't trust it to be honest. I'm not looking for a speed increase, as much as I am looking to really stabilize the boat in turns. in a hard turn it would start to pop and skip over the water, never actually "skidding" across the water the way my Villain did before turn fins.

    Thanks for the sharpening tip Darin. The original rudder on this was damaged as well, chunk missing out of the bottom leading edge from the last time I ran it.

    Sorry I didn't answer in a timely manner tlandauer, did not see your comment the last time I checked and no notifications have gone through. Do you have a FASTech? If so what modifications have you done for better performance? Not that I think it needs much.. lol
    traxxas villain: ose 48mm prop kit, ose carbon turn fins, lego darth vader(driver)
    proboat formula fastech: dual rudder, hitec 5646, x442.

  13. #13
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    Sorry to double post.. Little update. x442 is on. It's the pride of the fleet.. if you couldn't tell. Proboat Formula FASTech 04.jpgThe Fleet 06.jpg
    traxxas villain: ose 48mm prop kit, ose carbon turn fins, lego darth vader(driver)
    proboat formula fastech: dual rudder, hitec 5646, x442.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by zero_1 View Post
    I never ran it without turn fins. I wouldn't trust it to be honest. I'm not looking for a speed increase, as much as I am looking to really stabilize the boat in turns. in a hard turn it would start to pop and skip over the water, never actually "skidding" across the water the way my Villain did before turn fins.

    Thanks for the sharpening tip Darin. The original rudder on this was damaged as well, chunk missing out of the bottom leading edge from the last time I ran it.

    Sorry I didn't answer in a timely manner tlandauer, did not see your comment the last time I checked and no notifications have gone through. Do you have a FASTech? If so what modifications have you done for better performance? Not that I think it needs much.. lol
    No worries, I know it is hard to catch every response sometimes.
    The reason I asked was that back then ( way back, lol...) I did actually bent the turn fins per Darin's suggestion and I also did the dog eared training wheels on the trim tabs. But I was stupid: at the same time I installed a 4074/2000kv motor in the boat. Well, with 4s and a X642 prop, the torque was tremendous and the first "launch" was accomplished with the boat doing a 360* barrel roll, it was weird as the boat landed right side up. lol... Should have quit, but I went on and the turns were indeed much sharper and eventually the boat either rolled again or did something and I wasn't so lucky.
    I lost the hatch and all there that I can see was the tip of the boat. I managed to push the boat back with my Rio EP.
    Long story short, those were the days you can still order a replacement hatch, and nothing was damaged, the ESC (Seaking180), the receiver (MR3000) and the batteries ( Thunder Power) were all good after 45 minutes in water. I did replace the servo.
    I decided that I will go back to the stock set up as far as the trim tabs and the turn fins are concerned. I had a feeling I did something wrong, but I never took the time to review the situation.
    So I was wondering if you have tried w/o the turn fins.
    Now I have a Proboat 1800 kv motor turning a 442 prop. I am after scale speed and I didn't want to mess with it.
    I acquired a second boat which was in great condition but haven't run it yet.
    If you look at my signature, it says my problem...
    Too many boats, not enough time...

  15. #15
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    Gotcha. I'm keeping my eyes peeled on Evilbay for a good used FASTech. Its a great boat, but you are correct. Scale speed is for me. I installed a x442 prop that I cleaned up and sharpened. Gave it a light polish as well. I also used Darrins tricks on the tabs and fins, didn't seem to cure the extra wide turning circle to one side. This was about 2 years ago. Now like you said, the boat is disco, and as I'm finding out parts are difficult. I'm afraid of losing it. so the plan is to just take it easy and not go for more than 4s power. Might go for a better ESC though, this one smells a little.... wierd. lol
    traxxas villain: ose 48mm prop kit, ose carbon turn fins, lego darth vader(driver)
    proboat formula fastech: dual rudder, hitec 5646, x442.

  16. #16
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    Default

    nice job.boat looks great.you are right about finding parts for these boats,getting scarce and expensive.i have 2 Fastech nitro's that im running,and im not running them too hard..lol

  17. #17
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    Thanks for the compliment.

    I do fear I have really messed up the handling of it though. It's very unstable at high speeds. The entire hull wobbles left and right the faster I go. It is also very jumpy in faster turns.
    traxxas villain: ose 48mm prop kit, ose carbon turn fins, lego darth vader(driver)
    proboat formula fastech: dual rudder, hitec 5646, x442.

  18. #18
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    Default

    arriving late to this thread, guess I should have posted up my pictures last fall when I converted mine over to dual rudder. probably could have helped...oops. funny you mentioned the replacement rudder not matching. I actually modified the new one to match the original which If memory serves me correctly meant I shortened it a good 3/4" or so. the cooling pickup is a lot better on the new one(pick ups on both sides) but I wonder if the extra length is causing your hull wobble? shooting in the dark as I'm no hydraulics expert. other then that I'm running the same setup you are including the prop, it does have a little bit of chinewalk but nothing that gets it too out of control.
    p.s. assuming you through bolted the rudder bracket make sure you have oversized washers. I cheaped out and used ones way to small...caught a rock and it pulled bolts right through the transom.. nothing a little glass couldn't fix but could have been avoided.

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