Shocker First Maiden Run -- ESC Literally BLOWS through Hull

[dmitry100]

Hey guys,

So I got a new Shocker hull w/ hardware -- 2x 180 Seakings V3's + 2x 1900kv 2200W 6pole motors, 38mm 3 blade props + 2x 6s revo lipos.

I take it out for just a couple minutes with a few short bursts to make sure everything was looking OK. So after that I take it out of the water and as I'm walking back... I could start to hear a high pitched whistle going on within the hull and with the boat still in my hands a loud BOOM goes off... so as I almost *!***!***!***!** my pants-- I throw the hull onto the grass and run for my life. I could see 2 streams of smoke pouring out of the tips of the 2 front sponsons. After like 10-20 seconds I realize it'd be a good idea to disconnect the batteries to avoid any further damage or possible damage. I tear off the gorilla tape off the hatch as fast as I could... the only time I ever regretted having super strong tape lol and just start disconnecting all the battery wiring as fast as I could without trying to inhale of that smoke and I just let the hull sit there outside for at least 2 hours to let it vent out. I went back inside the house and took a shower. Even after the shower... I still smell like... the famous magic smoke that you guys keep talking about. My hands still smell. The entire hull smells. The lipos smell...

So anyways as I inspected the damage I noticed that the only thing that was really hot was that 1 ESC that blew up... everything else (both motors and other ESC) was fairly warm but not even close to as hot. There was not a single drop of water inside the hull either. Water tubing had water in them too, so I'm kind of stumped here.

Don't these Seaking ESC's have Thermal protection? What on earth would have caused it to blow up like that-- perhaps faulty ESC? :/

Here are some pictures of the damage ... if you look closely it looks like the explosion blew through the front seams of the hull.

One thing I'm surely thinking to do now is increase the size of the hull water pickup there and increase the cooling tubing diameter size from 3mm to 4-5mm.
Thinking maybe even going as far as putting a small water pump in there to provide adequate cooling no matter what.

And here I thought these ESC's would probably be overkill for these motors...

Photo May 03, 2 48 50 PM.jpgPhoto May 03, 2 46 16 PM.jpgPhoto May 03, 2 45 59 PM.jpgPhoto May 03, 2 37 52 PM.jpg

[tlandauer]

Sorry to hear that. It seems that these V3 have a tendency to do that------May not be a fair judgement but Randy had his pop too. Where as the V2 seemed to fair much better.

[Luck as a Constant]

why seaking changed the bulletproof design they had is mind boggling.

[dmitry100]

Do you guys think this might of been caused by the motor-- possible short there, or just faulty piece of *!***!***!***!** ESC in this case?

[Luck as a Constant]

Hard to say.
One thing is for sure... All the water cooling in the world would not have stopped that from happening.



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[dmitry100]

Any of you guys had any experiences with the Seaking warranty?

[keithbradley]

Damaged motor? Problem in the driveline? It's possible that it was a faulty ESC, but I'm not buying into the notion that the V2 was so much tougher than the V3. I've beat the snot out of the V3 ESCs and they've taken it pretty well.

[dmitry100]

Keith-- Any way to check the motor aside from burning up another ESC? :)

[dmitry100]

Also, Keith... You got any how-to threads about using that CF clothe you have on your site for inlays?

Not sure where to start with repairing those seams... would I need to crack open the entire hull to lay it all down?

[kfxguy]

One thing to check is make sure your motor mount screws aren't too long going into the motor and contacting the windings.

[IRON-PAWW]

I had something similar happen. Was with a spanking new TP motor and 240 amp swordfish. Motor got red hot and esc charred to death after only about a minute. Pretty sure the issue was a faulty motor that went into meltdown and took the esc with it. Replaced that motor with a Nue and the esc with a Seaking V3. Boat now runs extremely well with no other significant changes. Dead TP was red hot when I got the boat back to shore, which gave the first clue. With new motor I was immediately struck with how much more free the drivine seemed to run on the bench. So I think in hindsight there was some manufacturing fault with that motor. I'd carefully inspect that motor for melted lacquer on the windings and other heat related internal damage. Might not be the motor but might be very XP if you don't at least check. Very well might just have been a faulty esc... either way you need new one those in any case. My v3 seemed to run a bit cooler with Properchoppers simple cooling upgrade.

[tlandauer]

I thought Seaking has motor lock down detection?
If the motor is bad, just turn it by hand, it should feel mushy and the normal cogging is no longer articulated., as if there is wet sand in it. Look and see the color of the lacquer and compare to the other motor, also you can smell it if it is bad or going bad.
I have burned a Neu 1515 1y and a Leopard 4082/2200kv all on the same V2 ESC running on 4s2p, the ESC is still going strong today. My problem was I got a "voodoo" prop that was cupped and it just spiked the load on the motor that much more.

[iop65]

wouldn't trust that cooling intake /flow for a second!
look at picture 2 and 3 : my guess is that the tube is glued in at 90° , that little spot in front off the intake is not going to do much concerning the waterflow

would buy some bigger brass/ alu tube and glue that in an angle about 45°, and sand some more area to make things more hydrodynamic : will scoop up a lot more water !

[dmitry100]

Does it help to use some water pumps for this sort of thing, or is a good proper cooling flow sufficient most of the time?

Also, how do you guys suggest I repair those cracked seams in the front of the hull-- that the pressure from the burning ESC created? Perhaps it might be a good idea to lay an extra layer of CF.

Looking at how even sunlight seems to peak through soo easily... kind of scary what could happen if it ever hits a wave going like only 70mph.

Do I need to put down an entire 1-2 layers of CF everywhere, or just in the more vulnerable areas like seams, mounts, etc?
Which one of you has a how-to follow along about putting down CF inlays/reinforcement :)

[T.S.Davis]

Nobody thinks 1900kv is too much for 6s? Alrrrighty thennnnn. Burn em if ya got em I guess. Seems we have this kv discussion every spring.

1900kv on 6s is going to produce plenty of amps. If you were running at partial throttle the amperage would have been even higher. Then run it for multiple minutes that way? Amperage kills ESC. Sometimes before the thermal cutoff even has a chance to do it's thing. A simple stuff tube bend too tight could have blown the speedo. A burr on the stub.

I beat the crap out of my Seakings. I haven't been able to burn one.

[iop65]

look what German boaters do :they run 2200kv motors on 6s all day long in their cats
what size motors do you use for turning those 38 mm 3 -blades?

[flraptor07]

And as far as warranty goes, in this case they'll laugh at you!! Sorry but true....

[dmitry100]

iop65: http://tenshock-motors.de/Tenshock-B...ole-TSCZ2240_1

[iop65]

dmitri ; these are some pictures concerning your question
cooling lines in my jet-boat :

inside.jpgintake bottem.jpgoutlet.jpg


you get the idea how to improve the flow i guess

as you can see , still have to do some spraycan work :-)

[iop65]

that are good and powerfull motors but i guess that everything should be perfect for that set-up to work
when using 6s with this : not much room for errors!!
i would say that's for pro's

perhaps using/trying something less hot for starters?

[tlandauer]

Does it help to use some water pumps for this sort of thing, or is a good proper cooling flow sufficient most of the time?

Also, how do you guys suggest I repair those cracked seams in the front of the hull-- that the pressure from the burning ESC created? Perhaps it might be a good idea to lay an extra layer of CF.

Looking at how even sunlight seems to peak through soo easily... kind of scary what could happen if it ever hits a wave going like only 70mph.

Do I need to put down an entire 1-2 layers of CF everywhere, or just in the more vulnerable areas like seams, mounts, etc?
Which one of you has a how-to follow along about putting down CF inlays/reinforcement :)

This is known, you can see -thru the hull. One of the reasons I have not gotten the Zonda is that I don't entertain ripping everything down to do a CF layer which is needed if you intent to go fast.
As for the separation, you have to reinforce , hopefully you can get that far for a patch of CF or FG cloth. I personally don't like two-part expansion foam, but if after the repair and there is no way to have a lay up in front, this may be an alternative option.

[tlandauer]

Nobody thinks 1900kv is too much for 6s? Alrrrighty thennnnn. Burn em if ya got em I guess. Seems we have this kv discussion every spring.

1900kv on 6s is going to produce plenty of amps. If you were running at partial throttle the amperage would have been even higher. Then run it for multiple minutes that way? Amperage kills ESC. Sometimes before the thermal cutoff even has a chance to do it's thing. A simple stuff tube bend too tight could have blown the speedo. A burr on the stub.

I beat the crap out of my Seakings. I haven't been able to burn one.

Everytime when i say this, someone will always say I have been running kvs near 2000 with 6s without any problem, I stopped saying that because what do I know, lol......

[Luck as a Constant]

You can get away with higher kv motors on 6s in a twin. A single you may be asking for trouble however


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[Ken Haines]

Nobody thinks 1900kv is too much for 6s? Alrrrighty thennnnn. Burn em if ya got em I guess. Seems we have this kv discussion every spring.

1900kv on 6s is going to produce plenty of amps. If you were running at partial throttle the amperage would have been even higher. Then run it for multiple minutes that way? Amperage kills ESC. Sometimes before the thermal cutoff even has a chance to do it's thing. A simple stuff tube bend too tight could have blown the speedo. A burr on the stub.

I beat the crap out of my Seakings. I haven't been able to burn one.

I agree with Terry,
Really need to target 30,000 RPM (+/- 2000), unless you are attempting SAWS records.
The props just loose efficiency above this range anyway. Your props are the tool to go faster
but starting from that target area of 30,000 rpm. Use 3.7 volts per cell as your loaded cell voltage.
That means 3.7 x 6s = 22.2 volts loaded. Then multiply by the 1900....wow 42,180 RPM.
If you really want to run a 6s setup try staying at 1500 KV or lower motors.
Just my 2 pennies.

[kfxguy]

You can get away with higher kv motors on 6s in a twin. A single you may be asking for trouble however


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Agreed. Especially with 38-42mm props. 30k rpm is the old way of thinking. Technoloy have moved forward, I'm not sure why people's thinking hasn't.

[ray schrauwen]

What actual 6 pole 1900kv motors are you running???? You never mentioned brand or size.

Before you reinforce the hull you need to clean the crap in the cracks left behind by the magic smoke or glue will not take. After the huill is stripped and cleaned out, flush with 99% isopropyl alcohol.

I see you have the bec disconnected on one good ESC but, were you using bec on the burnt ESC?????

Aslo... was the side that popped the side that was doing most of the turning???

[tlandauer]

iop65: http://tenshock-motors.de/Tenshock-B...ole-TSCZ2240_1

I think he uses these^^^

[kfxguy]

What actual 6 pole 1900kv motors are you running???? You never mentioned brand or size.

Before you reinforce the hull you need to clean the crap in the cracks left behind by the magic smoke or glue will not take. After the huill is stripped and cleaned out, flush with 99% isopropyl alcohol.

I see you have the bec disconnected on one good ESC but, were you using bec on the burnt ESC?????

That's a good valid question there. The thing about the whole situation that gets me is one Esc was cool and it happened when he was walking with the boat. Not while running it. I honestly think if something wasn't hooked up wrong (like the bec thing) that he got a defective Esc. It happens. Those are good escs but you can get a defective anything.

[ray schrauwen]

I'd like to see a pic of the burnt ESC to see if the cap on board blew up as that is usually what the bang comes from then the smoke after... Yep, defects do happen... Drag, those are decent motors.

[iridebikes247]

Make sure the timing is set correctly, I've seen some escs get smoking hot because of incorrect timing....not setup.

Escs burn but its usually user error (i've done it), maybe the timing was wrong. I would try out a 442 2 blade next time out btw. As for the whole rpm thing....1900kv on 6s is fine as long as the motor works properly. Have you seen others use this motor with good results? A 6 pole is def harder on stuff than a 4 pole but I don't think the margin is enough to push you into failure. This boat should have come back quite cool.