Revo questions

[tlandauer]

Keith,
English IS my Second language and I can see where you are getting at, for some reason I had a slightly different interpretation of that word used in this context. I am not going to elaborate on it as I genuinely want this thread to stay healthy, I have actually learned more this time than the last time around, perhaps by proving a point I was able to "hear" myself think more clearly.
No matter, during my internet black out I was able to think a bit and I think at least I have come to a conclusion that I can live with.
I am all good, thanks everyone!
Cheers!

[keithbradley]

Terry, I'm not sure how "don't bring them to the race" means anything other than "Revos aren't welcome". Is there an out of context "them" you were referring to? Were you talking about Mike's spongebob underpants? It sure seemed like you were talking about Revos given the context. If I say "Strippers: watch them, pay them, do what you want...but don't bring them to my house." I think you would get the idea that strippers aren't welcome at my house.

I didn't mis-quote you. I may have paraphrased, but pretending that your post meant something other than "don't bring them to the race" is impossible now since those were your words, not mine. What I did is draw attention to what you said, and you didn't like it. Fair enough, maybe you MEANT something else. Maybe you meant exactly what you said and were just caught up in the moment. That's not for me to determine. I brought up what you said and I did so pretty accurately. If I change my post from "Terry told everyone not to show up at an event if they are running Revos" to "Terry said if you're running Revos, don't bring them to an event", does that really change the spirit or impact of my post?

Say what you mean and mean what you say brother. If you fail to do so, don't hold me responsible.

In terms of Revo getting their crap together from a marketing standpoint...are you serious? If you are, you have an odd perspective on marketing. Revo went from being absolutely unknown in FE boating to the talk of the forum every time you start one of these threads. Whether Terry likes Revo or not, whether you think they are the best thing since sliced bread or totally incompetent, whether or not you are going to buy them, doesn't matter. What's more important is that every time you say the name they get further away from this: "Revolectrix? Never heard of them...". Are you familiar with the designation "off-brand"? You know what's now NOT considered "off-brand"? Revolectrix. You know what IS off-brand? Me neither, because you haven't started any threads about them.

It's very possible (likely, even) that they fell into this phenomenon a$$-backward and never intended to create such an uproar. If it's intentional, it's genius from a marketing perspective. People spend a lot of money on brand recognition. It's the absolute "top of the list" in marketing. You're doing it for free. It's not the people that post about how good they are that spread the word the most, it's the people that turn it in to a hot-button topic. I realize it's hard to resist, but you're feeding the dragon you intended to slay.

There's no conspiracy that I know of. There WAS a poor decision made in the form of deeming a battery legal/illegal based on what the sticker says, which is what I said last fall, and still what I am saying now. It's not personal, it's not condescending, and it has nothing to do with what chair I am or am not sitting in. I've made plenty of poor decisions in my life, we all have. I'm not suggesting anything about anyone by saying that was a poor decision, I'm only assessing the decision. It's pretty obvious. It's the fight from your end that creates the illusion of a conspiracy and the thought that these packs are "a big deal".

[keithbradley]

I'll report on them when I run them...they will be going against the baseline batteries for my 4S setups, Turnigy 30C 5800 packs. Don't laugh, I've used these for years and they have been pretty bulletproof for me.

As the Revos are 4200, 70C =approx 290Amps and the Turnigys are 5800, 30C= approx 170amps, then in theory the Revos should outperform them. It will be interesting to see ....Revos about $80ish and the $Turnigy's around $52ish

As the Revos I just bought are new, and I just got some new Turnigys, then its close enough for me to be an apple to apple comparison. Although spec wise (if you can believe them) and dollar wise...the Revos had better come out on top as they are clearly supposed to be the bigger apple already.

Don't like my math or reasoning for comparisons, tough....do your own.


Also, do not take any of my comments as being anything negative about the seller I bought these from. He was just selling what he bought.

I'm curious to see how they work out for you John. I'm not sure what setups you're going to use them in and how that will affect your experience, but I'm guessing they're quite different from mine. In an all-out SAW run, yeah, I would expect the Revos to put the Turnigys to shame. In a milder setup, maybe it won't justify the cost difference, maybe it will. If your setup is, say, 116A, you're comparing the Turnigys at 20C to the Revos at 27C which is a tall order, but perhaps they will surprise you. With that said, even if they blow your pants off it's not a fair comparison since your Turnigys are well used and likely not 5800mah anymore.

Another thing to keep in mind is that your Revos are 4200mah when charged to 4.27v/cell, so if you charge them to 4.2v/cell they may only be ~3800mah, which will show in regard to runtime. This is an area where these packs could actually be a disadvantage if you're racing in an organization that has mah limitations.

Here's a question: If your lipos are 4200mah charged to 4.27v/cell and 3800mah charged to 4.2v/cell, would 100A draw be 23.8C or 26.3C when only charging to 4.2v/cell?

[Jeff]

Keith, I think I can sum up this thread. Revolectrix batteries were run at the 2014 NAMBA nationals. A precedence was set. No one was DQ'd. Take it from there.

[Doby]

Keith: They will mainly be used in 2P setups so runtime really shouldn't be an issue. But, I will try them as well just to "see" how the handle P-Spec setups in a "1P" configuration.

As to your question....my head hurts....I just hope they are decent packs.

Now, if only the damn ice would piss off.............

[Peter A]

It seems like everyone has forgotten that Turnigy has also produced hv lipos, albeitwith allegations of ripping off I.P. So if someone turns up with Turnigy hv packs will there be such aggravation? Has there been any threads so contentious as the threads about Revolectrix hv batteries?
Terry, no offense but given the changes you have lived through in model power boating, by your own account, it would be thought that you would have a more open minded approach to technology changes.
To be fair I have to say that the Turnigy blue 40C packs are hard to beat for the money.
Really the knocking down of one brand is getting a tad difficult to stomach, and a bit of a stuck record.

[jj2003]

What about T.P? Who's going to cut open a pair of these when they come out to check the labels? This Revo thing is getting old. Looks like there are more manufacturers getting on board the H.V boat now. Seem's to me like all the rulebooks will have to be amended one way or another and probably sooner than you think. I'm not a racer and only boat for sport but I'd be looking for more power if I could get it. I would think any racer would too. Do you ban others from using what the big manufacturers are pushing? Do we start making accusations against companies like Turnigy and T.P. for false branding if they advertise their base voltage as "3.7 nominal" ? Look's like a lawsuit waiting to happen. This is just getting ridiculous. Looks more like personal attacks on one another's character when there are paragraphs written on a topic about other people instead of the topic which it was created for and the responses should be just a few sentences long. Why not just email Revojohn and ask him? Keep threads like these off the boards. Someone want to care to explain to my 13 year old son, who's just getting into the sport, why guys are arguing and attacking one another about batteries? It's new technology that has to be accepted at some point and soon. This has gone from a debate to an argument again just like the last one but in less time. It's a real turn off to come back and read what you thought might be informational and see it's degradational. Anyone wanna check my grammar next? Who gives a s$it....

Double thumbs down fellas. Crap like this disappoint's me. I thought this place was better than that. Guess I was wrong.

Here's some food for thought; I'm out.

[Luck as a Constant]

I think there are some valid points in here, and a good discussion is always nice,
But sadly, anyone interested in revo batteries or racing is gonna google and find this thread.... And be turned away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DPeterson]

Doug S.

So what if I showed up with a 65" 35# 65cc mono? Could I run too?

LOL - You will be undersized and under powered but we'll find a class for you. :)

It is not rules in general that gives many a dis-taste. It is the lack of logic to support certain rules. Then the lack of consistent application. Example - Revoelectric cells are not welcome at Michigan (quote Terry) but some can run them anyway. Example - new "generational change" 2030 motors were ran at the 2014 Nats without being in compliance with NAMBA section 28, page 6, item iii (b) and (c). And it appears they continue to be run at SAW events.

Carry on Gents. But its just Toy Boats Fellas.

[LuckyDuc]

It looks like I'm late to the "party" again. I'm not sure I follow what the problems is. The rules stipulate a maximum voltage allowed per class. You can run these Revo cells, they just need to be at, or below the maximum allowed voltage limit.

Lets make everyone use a safety loop and then we can easily do pre-race voltage checks on every boat before each heat.
LOL! Win-win.

[Doby]

Lets all take a step back for a second.

Why is everyone picking on Revos? Well, probably they were the first to come out with advertised HV packs that people picked up on (maybe, maybe not). So, is so anything new is going to be the hot topic of discussion at that point, for better or worse.

Is it right to point out discrepancies in a manufactures products and advertising. I would think so as it can only help them out with their products. (remember when the Motley Crew was first released..snapping cables all over the place and AQ took some heat for that but got it fixed and it became probably the best RTR cat out there).

Will HV LiPos be allowed to run in organised events in their HV charge state? Probably eventually but right now they seem not to be. I get that as extra voltage can be a benefit. Should they be allowed to be used if only charged to the "normal" voltage of a regular Lipo...I think common sense has already answered that question...yes.

As for Terry....ahh.. Terry....as someone who has had my hands involved in helping organising a few events in the Great White North, I can tell you that its a challenge at the easiest times and a pain in the ass at the other times. Trying to keep everyone happy is pretty much impossible. Now try and balance new motors, new Lipos etc as they get tossed into the mix, you should quickly see that things can get really wonky really quickly..its not surprising that some of his internal solder joints melt every now and then. Lets just call it a passion for the racing portion of the hobby.

The Michigan guys have, for the past few years organised some of the best race events and as the hosting club, they can basically say what is allowed and what isn't...its their party and we choose to attend (or not).

[tlandauer]

Longest post from Doby in recent memory.... and as usual, very sensible one at that!
Well said!
It's good that if this discussion can be ushered in a different direction rather than seeing it simply as another one that's filled with barks between different camps.

[T.S.Davis]

Everyone that read what I wrote knew what I meant. I meant "don't bring HV cells to a race". We were talking about the HV cells but Keith made all of Revo (HV and standard) part of what I typed. It wasn't. I still feel that way. Why bring HV cells on purpose? When you know some will feel they are being cheated? I did say later that if put in the position to tech them I would use the recent proposal from Dave to keep the playing field even for the guys racing what they felt were legal cells when they opened their wallets. Then I would NOT have to deny someone an opportunity to race.

I've raced, hosted, and CD'd races for about 13 years now I think. Some pretty big too. I've denied one guy a chance to race ever. I've even let a guy switch boats half way through a days heats because his boat was wrecked. Made him get approval from the guys he was racing. Just to make sure he had a chance to race. Done that a couple time. Hell, I even collected motors, speedo, and a radio to put in a new guys boat to keep a him racing. This notion that the MMEU is all up tight and rules will be jammed down your throat is totally bogus nonsense from haters. Those that can do. Those that can't hate.

I'll try this one more time. I give zero F's about Revo. None. Other than the fact they lie about their products I don't care. That is not my problem. It does bother me a bit that the greatest proponent of Revo prefers to discredit those that noticed that they are lying. "Talking points" is funny. Readers of this thread are to believe that the discrepancies between the HV data sheets, the labels on the surface, the labels under the surface, and the information from RevoJohn don't mean anything. They're to believe it's just a result of myself and somebody behind the green curtain (I guess) trying to keep Revo itself out of racing.

The fact that an entry at the NATS was not protested does not set a precedence. There is no such thing as "precedence" in NAMBA or IMPBA. Please read the damned rule books. Either of them. If you're reading this thread you clearly have the capacity.

Also, if any or all of the rules suck then by all means.........make your own. If you're right the people will "make it so number 1". If some had not gotten involved many moons ago the "legal" cells would be Nicd and we would be running brushed 05 motors. Or.............just complain about the rules. That always makes them better.

[T.S.Davis]

Moderators. Please close this thread.

I apologize for wasting everyone's time.

[kfxguy]

Everyone that read what I wrote knew what I meant. I meant "don't bring HV cells to a race". We were talking about the HV cells but Keith made all of Revo (HV and standard) part of what I typed. It wasn't. I still feel that way. Why bring HV cells on purpose? When you know some will feel they are being cheated? I did say later that if put in the position to tech them I would use the recent proposal from Dave to keep the playing field even for the guys racing what they felt were legal cells when they opened their wallets. Then I would NOT have to deny someone an opportunity to race.

I've raced, hosted, and CD'd races for about 13 years now I think. Some pretty big too. I've denied one guy a chance to race ever. I've even let a guy switch boats half way through a days heats because his boat was wrecked. Made him get approval from the guys he was racing. Just to make sure he had a chance to race. Done that a couple time. Hell, I even collected motors, speedo, and a radio to put in a new guys boat to keep a him racing. This notion that the MMEU is all up tight and rules will be jammed down your throat is totally bogus nonsense from haters. Those that can do. Those that can't hate.

I'll try this one more time. I give zero F's about Revo. None. Other than the fact they lie about their products I don't care. That is not my problem. It does bother me a bit that the greatest proponent of Revo prefers to discredit those that noticed that they are lying. "Talking points" is funny. Readers of this thread are to believe that the discrepancies between the HV data sheets, the labels on the surface, the labels under the surface, and the information from RevoJohn don't mean anything. They're to believe it's just a result of myself and somebody behind the green curtain (I guess) trying to keep Revo itself out of racing.

The fact that an entry at the NATS was not protested does not set a precedence. There is no such thing as "precedence" in NAMBA or IMPBA. Please read the damned rule books. Either of them. If you're reading this thread you clearly have the capacity.

Also, if any or all of the rules suck then by all means.........make your own. If you're right the people will "make it so number 1". If some had not gotten involved many moons ago the "legal" cells would be Nicd and we would be running brushed 05 motors. Or.............just complain about the rules. That always makes them better.

It appears to me you started a thread to attempt to slam revo again instead of asking legit questions....at least that looks like your motive to me. Dont like em, dont buy em....simple.

[LuckyDuc]

Waste of time? Not really. We should be checking pre-race voltage upon request ,and we should be discussing methods to make this as painless as possible.

[Doby]

Waste of time? Not really. We should be checking pre-race voltage upon request ,and we should be discussing methods to make this as painless as possible.

Yup...

[T.S.Davis]

It apperas to me you started a thread to attempt to slam revo again instead of asking legit questions....at least that looks like your motive to me. Dont like em, dont buy em....simple.

You don't feel "discrepancies between the HV data sheets, the labels on the surface, the labels under the surface, and the information from RevoJohn" are legitimate concerns. Works for me.

The original question was "Which one is the lie? The label or the data sheet?" I still don't know. The answer I've received is that I'm "slamming" Revo for bringing it up. The fact that they don't match is a result of my observation I guess. Got it. I'll move on from that.

I couldn't find the Thunderpower high voltage cells. Only the youtube announcement. Anybody have more data? They were supposed to be out in January but haven't hit Thunderpowers site yet.

I think I'll just be doing random checks at the Cup like a drunk driver check point.

[LuckyDuc]

We're going to have a drunk driver check point to? LOL

[Doug Smock]

Why not just email Revojohn and ask him?

Of course, did that back in October, he must be very busy.

[T.S.Davis]

We're going to have a drunk driver check point to? LOL

Oh sure. You know how I am Sean. Fun govn'a! Usually I just watch for flip flops and a bath robe on the drivers stand.

[Doug Smock]

Moderators. Please close this thread.

I apologize for wasting everyone's time.

It has run it's course I think.

Have a great week fellas!