Kbb 34" mono build

[kfxguy]

I made the flood tube support.



And I had to lay some more carbon. What I plan on (tell me what you think) is I'm going to epoxy a plate over the whole big part of the flood tube. This plate will serve a few purposes. It will hit the flood tube, hide some wiring and cooling lines. It will also be the base for my servo, bec and receiver to mount on. Then I'll make a cover for the top of that. Yes? No?

This is 9"x 12 which will net me about 8x10 when I square it up





I also mocked up the strut and rudder to see what it will look like.

[keithbradley]

Where are the lipos going?

[kfxguy]

Where are the lipos going?

The trays will be next to the motor as low as I can get them. I'm trying to decide what epoxy I'm going to use to hold them in. In all my cats I have the trays wedged in between the tunnel and outer walls of the boat with epoxy going the whole length of them. In this it's going to have little tabs to space the trays up a tad altho I have a different idea that's harder and will take longer.

[kfxguy]

Here's the strut and rudder mocked up. I should be mounting them tomorrow night.

[Luck as a Constant]

The trays will be next to the motor as low as I can get them. I'm trying to decide what epoxy I'm going to use to hold them in. In all my cats I have the trays wedged in between the tunnel and outer walls of the boat with epoxy going the whole length of them. In this it's going to have little tabs to space the trays up a tad altho I have a different idea that's harder and will take longer.

I have a huge tube of silicone for gluing trays coming from Keith.
If you want, I can report back to you on how well it works.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kfxguy]

I have a huge tube of silicone for gluing trays coming from Keith.
If you want, I can report back to you on how well it works.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds good!

[Roy Van De Sande]

Roy, have you ran any other Lehner motors? 3080/9 on 12s lipo is a 25k RPM setup...not exactly playing to the strength of the 2 pole LMT design. I can see with your setup why you would prefer the 4 pole motor, but you might change your mind if you were using motors at higher RPM. I'm sure you weren't impressed by the 3080/9 on 12s, but I can say from experience that a 3080/7 on 14s is in a completely different world.

Some data from Lehner:

The power increase is proportional to the rpm. Make sure there is good cooling.
Operating voltage x 2 = rpm x 2 = double power

Max power of the series 30xx motors:
3040 50000 rpm ca. 12 kW (at ŋ / Pmax)
3060 50000 rpm ca. 17 kW (at ŋ / Pmax)
3080 50000 rpm ca. 30 kW (at ŋ / Pmax)

OP: Great looking build so far!

Hello Keith,

I have done these comparisments so far:

Lehner 1950 vs leopard 3674
Lehner 2260 vs TP4070
Lehner 2280 vs TP4070
Lehner 3040 vs TP5660
Lehner 3080 vs TP5850

So far I had these result: the lehners motors are always hotter than the TP/leopard motors after the same amount of time, at the same voltage, with the same prop.
The kv of the motors I compare are more or less the same under load to minimize the difference between the motors. The Lehners
draw statistically 10-15% more peak current, runtime drops with 10-20%. I have ran over 2000 tests with all the different motors so
the results are in my opinion real and good data. I am working with a good friend on a study about DC electric engines. We have
ran the tests in a boat but also just on a bench with equipment mounted to it to see how the different motors designs performed.

In the case of the lehner 3080/9. Yes I have tried other voltages. I have ran it up to 16s2p in my 45' mono. That is close to a 35K setup.
35K isn't a that much for a lehner but still for a lehner 3080, I think it is near the maximum to keep the current peaks down (<500A) if you
want to spin a decent prop. With a x465 octura It ran around 75mph but the runtime was limited to 2minutes and the current peaks were
around 400A. The temperature of the lehner was around 55-60°C with the standard lehner cooling jacket mounted. This would be around 140°F
to make it easy for you. MBP now sells a longer cooling jacket for lehner motors which will definitely bring the temperature down a bit. I have tested
the impact of a small/longer cooling jacket on a TP4070 in a bench test 3weeks ago. The difference between a 50mm cooling jacket and a 90mm cooling
jacket were over 30°C or 86°F. All cooling jackets were made of the same material at the university I do this study at, just shorter or longer. A stunning result. After this test I am convinced I could bring the temperature of the lehner 3080 down a bit.

Last winter I mounted my old TP5850 600kv back in the boat. I ran it last week on 14s2p with a 6717/3 prop. Speeds so far in 3 runs: 78,82 and 81mph.
The most important result for me was the runtime, 3minutes, which is a full minut longer than the lehner gave me at the same speed. Current peaks were only around 300A. The Motor
temperature was around 40°C or 104°F. This will be the result of the larger area that is watercooled in comparisment to the lehner but also the fact that the lehner
has a 2pole design (less torque) and the TP has a 6 pole design.

In my experience, lehners are just the best motors for running straight lines at high rpm and high speed. The only reason for this is their 2-pole design
and the smart design of the rotor of the lehners. For all other applications (oval racing , sport running , ... ) I believe TP/leopard/scorpion/neu are the better choice. This will be the case for just all the people who are not aiming at some speedrecord.

Furthermore, there is also the weight of the lehners. A TP5850 is almost a full kg lighter than a lehner 3080. This will have its influence on a boat
with a weight of 9-10kg like me 45' mono.

The last argument I have is the price of a Lehner. Yes it is true, lehner offers the highest quality motors on the market today. BUT, for the price
of 1 lehner you can often buy 3 - 4 TP/leopards. This means you will have to break 3-4 TP motors before you can say, yes it was worth it to buy the
more expensive lehner. I have never broken a TP motor so far and I am really pushing them the to limit. My TP5850 is rated up to 12kW, I am asking
around 15kW sometimes. I am running this setup for 1.5 year now. If the TP5850 would brake right know, that would mean the lehner 3080 I had
would be in my boat for 6 years?? In 6 years time, there will be some new motors on the market I guess, maybe better than the lehner motors right know for
a fraction of the price. Who knows?

OP: Wow man , where do you find the time to work on your boats that much? Looking great all along :)

[kfxguy]

Hello Keith,

I have done these comparisments so far:

Lehner 1950 vs leopard 3674
Lehner 2260 vs TP4070
Lehner 2280 vs TP4070
Lehner 3040 vs TP5660
Lehner 3080 vs TP5850

So far I had these result: the lehners motors are always hotter than the TP/leopard motors after the same amount of time, at the same voltage, with the same prop.
The kv of the motors I compare are more or less the same under load to minimize the difference between the motors. The Lehners
draw statistically 10-15% more peak current, runtime drops with 10-20%. I have ran over 2000 tests with all the different motors so
the results are in my opinion real and good data. I am working with a good friend on a study about DC electric engines. We have
ran the tests in a boat but also just on a bench with equipment mounted to it to see how the different motors designs performed.

In the case of the lehner 3080/9. Yes I have tried other voltages. I have ran it up to 16s2p in my 45' mono. That is close to a 35K setup.
35K isn't a that much for a lehner but still for a lehner 3080, I think it is near the maximum to keep the current peaks down (<500A) if you
want to spin a decent prop. With a x465 octura It ran around 75mph but the runtime was limited to 2minutes and the current peaks were
around 400A. The temperature of the lehner was around 55-60°C with the standard lehner cooling jacket mounted. This would be around 140°F
to make it easy for you. MBP now sells a longer cooling jacket for lehner motors which will definitely bring the temperature down a bit. I have tested
the impact of a small/longer cooling jacket on a TP4070 in a bench test 3weeks ago. The difference between a 50mm cooling jacket and a 90mm cooling
jacket were over 30°C or 86°F. All cooling jackets were made of the same material at the university I do this study at, just shorter or longer. A stunning result. After this test I am convinced I could bring the temperature of the lehner 3080 down a bit.

Last winter I mounted my old TP5850 600kv back in the boat. I ran it last week on 14s2p with a 6717/3 prop. Speeds so far in 3 runs: 78,82 and 81mph.
The most important result for me was the runtime, 3minutes, which is a full minut longer than the lehner gave me at the same speed. Current peaks were only around 300A. The Motor
temperature was around 40°C or 104°F. This will be the result of the larger area that is watercooled in comparisment to the lehner but also the fact that the lehner
has a 2pole design (less torque) and the TP has a 6 pole design.

In my experience, lehners are just the best motors for running straight lines at high rpm and high speed. The only reason for this is their 2-pole design
and the smart design of the rotor of the lehners. For all other applications (oval racing , sport running , ... ) I believe TP/leopard/scorpion/neu are the better choice. This will be the case for just all the people who are not aiming at some speedrecord.

Furthermore, there is also the weight of the lehners. A TP5850 is almost a full kg lighter than a lehner 3080. This will have its influence on a boat
with a weight of 9-10kg like me 45' mono.

The last argument I have is the price of a Lehner. Yes it is true, lehner offers the highest quality motors on the market today. BUT, for the price
of 1 lehner you can often buy 3 - 4 TP/leopards. This means you will have to break 3-4 TP motors before you can say, yes it was worth it to buy the
more expensive lehner. I have never broken a TP motor so far and I am really pushing them the to limit. My TP5850 is rated up to 12kW, I am asking
around 15kW sometimes. I am running this setup for 1.5 year now. If the TP5850 would brake right know, that would mean the lehner 3080 I had
would be in my boat for 6 years?? In 6 years time, there will be some new motors on the market I guess, maybe better than the lehner motors right know for
a fraction of the price. Who knows?

OP: Wow man , where do you find the time to work on your boats that much? Looking great all along :)

Good info. I did buy the 2250 and 2260 for straight line speed. They are for my rivercat (2250) and my shocker (2260). When i get to the point where i want to just tool around with them, then they will get neu motors. I have a 1521 for the rivercat already and it would be easy to take the 1521 out the mono to put in the shocker. Ive never had anything that runs hot because i always over do things.

[larryrose11]

Do you plan on using a STS?

[kfxguy]

Do you plan on using a STS?

Nope. It's to much trouble to fool with and I don't have water issues since I've started putting sealed roller bearings in my struts.

[kfxguy]

Didn't do anything to it tonight. I did finish the carbon sheet. I'd rather give it a couple days to fully cure before doing anything with it.



Carbon selfie? Lol you'd have to see this sheet in person, it's very nice. It measures about .080 thick.

[kfxguy]

Starting drilling holes

[kfxguy]

Made a multipurpose esc mount. In case I want to mount a different esc. Not doing anything elaborate or complicated. Maybe later. For now it will use a battery stray to hold the esc in place. Not covering anything up either. Simplicity and neatness is what I'm going after.

[kfxguy]

Got some more done.

I didn't have a linkage boot fitting long enough because the transom is very thick so I made one.








Started on the plate that holds the servo, receiver and bec.

[kfxguy]

Getting ready to mount the battery trays.

[Luck as a Constant]

What's the plan with this boat... Str8 speed runs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spartanator]

I think speed is his first goal, then after that it will be the one he runs on windy days so he might tone it down to a normal setup! lol

[kfxguy]

I think speed is his first goal, then after that it will be the one he runs on windy days so he might tone it down to a normal setup! lol

Are you living in my head? Lol. That's exactly the correct answer! Lol
I have the equipment capable of making it go really fast that's going in it first. Just to see what I can do with a mono as far as top speed goes. This should be a very capable hull (well what do I know, this is my first mono haha!). Then after that I have some other running places that aren't too cat friendly that I'd like to run at.

[Spartanator]

Are you living in my head? Lol. That's exactly the correct answer! Lol
I have the equipment capable of making it go really fast that's going in it first. Just to see what I can do with a mono as far as top speed goes. This should be a very capable hull (well what do I know, this is my first mono haha!). Then after that I have some other running places that aren't too cat friendly that I'd like to run at.

Haha, I feel like I am always pelting you you with questions, most of the time I get the answer! lol
V hulls (I will not call them a m_ _ _ hull, just don't like it!) are less efficient and will draw more amps (this is well known). The smart hulls are stepped which helps but it doesn't make it catamaran efficient. I have always been a V hull dude, always will be. I just run in an area where it is windy and choppy.

[kfxguy]

Got the slots cut in the battery trays. I was going to just use the little tabs that come with the trays and loop the straps around the tray like it was meant to be......but me being myself I just couldn't do that. I had to do it my way of course. Lol. I cut carbon strips that go the full perimeter around the tray and two center points. May be a little overboard but I'd rather them not come out.






And a pic how it sits right now. Waiting on the epoxy to dry on the rear deck plate and the battery tray tabs.

[Roy Van De Sande]

Looks awesome!

[kfxguy]

Got the battery trays in. What a pita! To do it nearly I had to epoxy the spacers to the trays, let them cure. Then with the bleed out I got epoxy on the front of the trays. I masked them off on the front but the epoxy still bled through. I used west systems there. I also had to re-mill the slots from the bleed out and also trim excess epoxy. That was two days gone there. I ordered some faster hardener so next time I don't have to wait as long. Had to put a light coat on the face of the trays because I had to sand the epoxy that got on them. Not too happy that happened but live and learn I suppose. Then I had to sand thin lines (bout 1/4" wide) in all areas of contact, wasn't easy gettin in there. I then used some 30 minute hobby shop epoxy (I use this on all my trays and never let me down yet) mixed with some black epoxy dye and some epoxy thickener made by west systems also. Almost like a peanut butter consistency. When I stuck the trays, they didn't move. Good stuff. Tomorrow I'll pour the foam. I haven't decided on a color yet. I was thinking about a pearl white. I also have a very good looking orange. I'm no painter so it'll have to be simple. Ideas?

[longballlumber]

I like the servo mounting posts! That has given me a few ideas for the future.

Later,
Ball

[kfxguy]

I like the servo mounting posts! That has given me a few ideas for the future.

Later,
Ball

Thx! I like to keep it simple (well sometimes haha) and this is cheaper, easier and nicer than buying a mount. They are 6-32 thread btw

[kfxguy]

Foam is done. Soldered in the cap bank. Block sanded the transom so the bottom edge is sharp as can be. Had to add another short "shelf" made of carbon to Velcro the cap bank to do it doesn't flop around. Trim tab holes are drilled but I came to a snafu I didn't think about. You see cats don't have trim tabs so I forgot about them up to this point. The receiver/servo plate gets in the way of me getting to the nuts to screw the tabs on. So now I have to get creative.

[rearwheelin]

lol

[rearwheelin]

I like to make these for tight areas. I make them for everything I can because they work better than bolts ! image.jpg

[kfxguy]

I like to make these for tight areas. I make them for everything I can because they work better than bolts ! image.jpg

That's what I had planned on doing just a little thinner version.

[kfxguy]

Because I am impatient and a night owl I decided to go back out in the shop and make up my wire harness for the bec and the esc extension and put the esc, receiver and Bec in.

[kfxguy]

And one more