Kbb 34" mono build

[kfxguy]

I've been wanting to build a mono for a little tougher water running. I also want to see how fast I can make one go. When I saw this hull I fell in love with its sleek looks. So I ordered one. Few days later it can in and I was super impressed with the quality of it. Now on to the goodies

Here's my components. I have everything except for the esc, it's on the way to me. Ordered it tonight

Motor: lehner 2260 (and after I see how fast we can go, I just bought a brand new 1527 1500kv from the ose store to make it more for sport running)
Esc: mgm 25035-3 x2
Servo: savox 0231
Collet: mbp billet
Flex: 3/16 aeromarine
Hardware: 3/16 strut with carbon flood tube and separate rudder

[kfxguy]

First thing is first, we need an inlay done....

[Roy Van De Sande]

Like every build I have seen from you, looks great!

[kfxguy]

Like every build I have seen from you, looks great!

Thanks!

[kfxguy]

I decided I eanteda flood tube with a strut because I want height to be adjustable too and not just angle. Head on over to my lathe and make a end cap for the carbon tube.







The grooves are for the epoxy to grab better. Here it is assembled.

[kfxguy]

Here's the 1527 that will end up in it.



And the lehner going in it for now the lehner is actually for my shocker but that will be a whole before I get to that.




Layout idea.

[kfxguy]

Flood tube and aligning the motor

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[kfxguy]

Time to mount the motor using my old trusty mix of jb weld and graphite powder to darken it.



And this is where I'm at right now. Waiting on the esc before I move forward to make sure it all fits the way I want.

[Roy Van De Sande]

You are going quick :) Keep it going!
Where did you get the carbon tubing?
Thanks!
Roy

[kfxguy]

You are going quick :) Keep it going!
Where did you get the carbon tubing?
Thanks!
Roy

I have a few things i can do but i'm waiting on the esc to make the mount for it. I can work on the rear tho. I'm going to make a support for the front of the flood tube, then make a plate that goes over the flood tube that the servo, bec and receiver mount to. then a cover to go over those components. I have the software now to run my cnc router so i'll need to get up to speed on that here soon. That will help with cutting things out for sure. I got the tube from ebay, there a seller who specializes in it...its very nice tube. I'll get the seller for you sometime today.

[Roy Van De Sande]

I'll get the seller for you sometime today.

That would be nice! Thank you!

[Make-a-Wake]

Sexy gal there..............6s2p?

[kfxguy]

Sexy gal there..............6s2p?

To begin I will run it on 6s but I plan on pushing it up to 8s. I bought both motors with 8mm shafts to take the additional rpm. The lehner is in the 1600kv range. I plan on seeing just how fast I can go with this hull. Everything is purposely being mounted low for a low cg in an effort to help stability.

[Make-a-Wake]

To begin I will run it on 6s but I plan on pushing it up to 8s. I bought both motors with 8mm shafts to take the additional rpm. The lehner is in the 1600kv range. I plan on seeing just how fast I can go with this hull. Everything is purposely being mounted low for a low cg in an effort to help stability.

Forgot you were the high rpm guy

You think the Neu will outperform the Lehner?

[kfxguy]

Forgot you were the high rpm guy

You think the Neu will outperform the Lehner?

I dunno. I've had plenty of neu motors and I like them but never run a lehner before but I know they are a powerful motor. The 2260 I have weighs a bit more than the 1527 so I'd be very surprised if the 1527 was more powerful. The cool thing about this is I'll be able to swap between the two very easily. I'll definatly have some comparison data but I'm not so sure that it would even be fair as the lehner is a higher kv and kv is rated under a load. I may only need 7s with the lehner to do what I want and 8s on the neu. I guess I'll find out soon. I'll be in the shop tonight working on it along with a cheetah and a Rivercat.

[Stevesc]

I dunno. I've had plenty of neu motors and I like them but never run a lehner before but I know they are a powerful motor. The 2260 I have weighs a bit more than the 1527 so I'd be very surprised if the 1527 was more powerful. The cool thing about this is I'll be able to swap between the two very easily. I'll definatly have some comparison data but I'm not so sure that it would even be fair as the lehner is a higher kv and kv is rated under a load. I may only need 7s with the lehner to do what I want and 8s on the neu. I guess I'll find out soon. I'll be in the shop tonight working on it along with a cheetah and a Rivercat.

Don't forget to include the Daytona.

[rickwess]

What are you using to support the flooded tube to get get the angle lined up? I see some shavings.

[kfxguy]

What are you using to support the flooded tube to get get the angle lined up? I see some shavings.

The flood tube is mounted and aligned perfectly. You can't tell but the tube coming out the flood tube is slightly angled up. It will have a little triangle of carbon for support made of 3mm material. I am aware that the stuffing tube needs a bend in it and it does inside the flood tube. The shavings are fiberglass and carbon from when I was tweaking the hole. I guess I didn't get all the shavings out at that point.

[Roy Van De Sande]

When you have run both motors you could compare them. I have had a lehner 3080/9 in a 45' mono on 12s2p but I didn't like it at all.
I changed back to my old TP5850 600kv. Almost a full kilogram lighter but the TP has also way more torque and stays much cooler than the
lehner. I run all my boats in oval racing, maybe this is a reason why the 800 dollalr lehner didn't performed the way I had expected. People often
think lehner are some kind of wonder motors but they are not. They are just high quality 2 pole motors with all the advantages and disadvantages of
the 2 pole design. In my opinion a 4+ pole motor is the better choice for almost 90% of all people out here. I am very curious to see what the limits are of your 34' mono! Keep us posted!

[kfxguy]

When you have run both motors you could compare them. I have had a lehner 3080/9 in a 45' mono on 12s2p but I didn't like it at all.
I changed back to my old TP5850 600kv. Almost a full kilogram lighter but the TP has also way more torque and stays much cooler than the
lehner. I run all my boats in oval racing, maybe this is a reason why the 800 dollalr lehner didn't performed the way I had expected. People often
think lehner are some kind of wonder motors but they are not. They are just high quality 2 pole motors with all the advantages and disadvantages of
the 2 pole design. In my opinion a 4+ pole motor is the better choice for almost 90% of all people out here. I am very curious to see what the limits are of your 34' mono! Keep us posted!

I'll definately post videos a gps speeds as I go...

[keithbradley]

When you have run both motors you could compare them. I have had a lehner 3080/9 in a 45' mono on 12s2p but I didn't like it at all.
I changed back to my old TP5850 600kv. Almost a full kilogram lighter but the TP has also way more torque and stays much cooler than the
lehner. I run all my boats in oval racing, maybe this is a reason why the 800 dollalr lehner didn't performed the way I had expected. People often
think lehner are some kind of wonder motors but they are not. They are just high quality 2 pole motors with all the advantages and disadvantages of
the 2 pole design. In my opinion a 4+ pole motor is the better choice for almost 90% of all people out here. I am very curious to see what the limits are of your 34' mono! Keep us posted!

Roy, have you ran any other Lehner motors? 3080/9 on 12s lipo is a 25k RPM setup...not exactly playing to the strength of the 2 pole LMT design. I can see with your setup why you would prefer the 4 pole motor, but you might change your mind if you were using motors at higher RPM. I'm sure you weren't impressed by the 3080/9 on 12s, but I can say from experience that a 3080/7 on 14s is in a completely different world.

Some data from Lehner:

The power increase is proportional to the rpm. Make sure there is good cooling.
Operating voltage x 2 = rpm x 2 = double power

Max power of the series 30xx motors:
3040 50000 rpm ca. 12 kW (at ŋ / Pmax)
3060 50000 rpm ca. 17 kW (at ŋ / Pmax)
3080 50000 rpm ca. 30 kW (at ŋ / Pmax)

OP: Great looking build so far!

[Roy Van De Sande]

Roy, have you ran any other Lehner motors? 3080/9 on 12s lipo is a 25k RPM setup...not exactly playing to the strength of the 2 pole LMT design. I can see with your setup why you would prefer the 4 pole motor, but you might change your mind if you were using motors at higher RPM. I'm sure you weren't impressed by the 3080/9 on 12s, but I can say from experience that a 3080/7 on 14s is in a completely different world.

Some data from Lehner:

The power increase is proportional to the rpm. Make sure there is good cooling.
Operating voltage x 2 = rpm x 2 = double power

Max power of the series 30xx motors:
3040 50000 rpm ca. 12 kW (at ŋ / Pmax)
3060 50000 rpm ca. 17 kW (at ŋ / Pmax)
3080 50000 rpm ca. 30 kW (at ŋ / Pmax)

OP: Great looking build so far!

Hello Keith,

I have done these comparisments so far:

Lehner 1950 vs leopard 3674
Lehner 2260 vs TP4070
Lehner 2280 vs TP4070
Lehner 3040 vs TP5660
Lehner 3080 vs TP5850

So far I had these result: the lehners motors are always hotter than the TP/leopard motors after the same amount of time, at the same voltage, with the same prop.
The kv of the motors I compare are more or less the same under load to minimize the difference between the motors. The Lehners
draw statistically 10-15% more peak current, runtime drops with 10-20%. I have ran over 2000 tests with all the different motors so
the results are in my opinion real and good data. I am working with a good friend on a study about DC electric engines. We have
ran the tests in a boat but also just on a bench with equipment mounted to it to see how the different motors designs performed.

In the case of the lehner 3080/9. Yes I have tried other voltages. I have ran it up to 16s2p in my 45' mono. That is close to a 35K setup.
35K isn't a that much for a lehner but still for a lehner 3080, I think it is near the maximum to keep the current peaks down (<500A) if you
want to spin a decent prop. With a x465 octura It ran around 75mph but the runtime was limited to 2minutes and the current peaks were
around 400A. The temperature of the lehner was around 55-60°C with the standard lehner cooling jacket mounted. This would be around 140°F
to make it easy for you. MBP now sells a longer cooling jacket for lehner motors which will definitely bring the temperature down a bit. I have tested
the impact of a small/longer cooling jacket on a TP4070 in a bench test 3weeks ago. The difference between a 50mm cooling jacket and a 90mm cooling
jacket were over 30°C or 86°F. All cooling jackets were made of the same material at the university I do this study at, just shorter or longer. A stunning result. After this test I am convinced I could bring the temperature of the lehner 3080 down a bit.

Last winter I mounted my old TP5850 600kv back in the boat. I ran it last week on 14s2p with a 6717/3 prop. Speeds so far in 3 runs: 78,82 and 81mph.
The most important result for me was the runtime, 3minutes, which is a full minut longer than the lehner gave me at the same speed. Current peaks were only around 300A. The Motor
temperature was around 40°C or 104°F. This will be the result of the larger area that is watercooled in comparisment to the lehner but also the fact that the lehner
has a 2pole design (less torque) and the TP has a 6 pole design.

In my experience, lehners are just the best motors for running straight lines at high rpm and high speed. The only reason for this is their 2-pole design
and the smart design of the rotor of the lehners. For all other applications (oval racing , sport running , ... ) I believe TP/leopard/scorpion/neu are the better choice. This will be the case for just all the people who are not aiming at some speedrecord.

Furthermore, there is also the weight of the lehners. A TP5850 is almost a full kg lighter than a lehner 3080. This will have its influence on a boat
with a weight of 9-10kg like me 45' mono.

The last argument I have is the price of a Lehner. Yes it is true, lehner offers the highest quality motors on the market today. BUT, for the price
of 1 lehner you can often buy 3 - 4 TP/leopards. This means you will have to break 3-4 TP motors before you can say, yes it was worth it to buy the
more expensive lehner. I have never broken a TP motor so far and I am really pushing them the to limit. My TP5850 is rated up to 12kW, I am asking
around 15kW sometimes. I am running this setup for 1.5 year now. If the TP5850 would brake right know, that would mean the lehner 3080 I had
would be in my boat for 6 years?? In 6 years time, there will be some new motors on the market I guess, maybe better than the lehner motors right know for
a fraction of the price. Who knows?

OP: Wow man , where do you find the time to work on your boats that much? Looking great all along :)

[kfxguy]

Hello Keith,

I have done these comparisments so far:

Lehner 1950 vs leopard 3674
Lehner 2260 vs TP4070
Lehner 2280 vs TP4070
Lehner 3040 vs TP5660
Lehner 3080 vs TP5850

So far I had these result: the lehners motors are always hotter than the TP/leopard motors after the same amount of time, at the same voltage, with the same prop.
The kv of the motors I compare are more or less the same under load to minimize the difference between the motors. The Lehners
draw statistically 10-15% more peak current, runtime drops with 10-20%. I have ran over 2000 tests with all the different motors so
the results are in my opinion real and good data. I am working with a good friend on a study about DC electric engines. We have
ran the tests in a boat but also just on a bench with equipment mounted to it to see how the different motors designs performed.

In the case of the lehner 3080/9. Yes I have tried other voltages. I have ran it up to 16s2p in my 45' mono. That is close to a 35K setup.
35K isn't a that much for a lehner but still for a lehner 3080, I think it is near the maximum to keep the current peaks down (<500A) if you
want to spin a decent prop. With a x465 octura It ran around 75mph but the runtime was limited to 2minutes and the current peaks were
around 400A. The temperature of the lehner was around 55-60°C with the standard lehner cooling jacket mounted. This would be around 140°F
to make it easy for you. MBP now sells a longer cooling jacket for lehner motors which will definitely bring the temperature down a bit. I have tested
the impact of a small/longer cooling jacket on a TP4070 in a bench test 3weeks ago. The difference between a 50mm cooling jacket and a 90mm cooling
jacket were over 30°C or 86°F. All cooling jackets were made of the same material at the university I do this study at, just shorter or longer. A stunning result. After this test I am convinced I could bring the temperature of the lehner 3080 down a bit.

Last winter I mounted my old TP5850 600kv back in the boat. I ran it last week on 14s2p with a 6717/3 prop. Speeds so far in 3 runs: 78,82 and 81mph.
The most important result for me was the runtime, 3minutes, which is a full minut longer than the lehner gave me at the same speed. Current peaks were only around 300A. The Motor
temperature was around 40°C or 104°F. This will be the result of the larger area that is watercooled in comparisment to the lehner but also the fact that the lehner
has a 2pole design (less torque) and the TP has a 6 pole design.

In my experience, lehners are just the best motors for running straight lines at high rpm and high speed. The only reason for this is their 2-pole design
and the smart design of the rotor of the lehners. For all other applications (oval racing , sport running , ... ) I believe TP/leopard/scorpion/neu are the better choice. This will be the case for just all the people who are not aiming at some speedrecord.

Furthermore, there is also the weight of the lehners. A TP5850 is almost a full kg lighter than a lehner 3080. This will have its influence on a boat
with a weight of 9-10kg like me 45' mono.

The last argument I have is the price of a Lehner. Yes it is true, lehner offers the highest quality motors on the market today. BUT, for the price
of 1 lehner you can often buy 3 - 4 TP/leopards. This means you will have to break 3-4 TP motors before you can say, yes it was worth it to buy the
more expensive lehner. I have never broken a TP motor so far and I am really pushing them the to limit. My TP5850 is rated up to 12kW, I am asking
around 15kW sometimes. I am running this setup for 1.5 year now. If the TP5850 would brake right know, that would mean the lehner 3080 I had
would be in my boat for 6 years?? In 6 years time, there will be some new motors on the market I guess, maybe better than the lehner motors right know for
a fraction of the price. Who knows?

OP: Wow man , where do you find the time to work on your boats that much? Looking great all along :)

Good info. I did buy the 2250 and 2260 for straight line speed. They are for my rivercat (2250) and my shocker (2260). When i get to the point where i want to just tool around with them, then they will get neu motors. I have a 1521 for the rivercat already and it would be easy to take the 1521 out the mono to put in the shocker. Ive never had anything that runs hot because i always over do things.

[larryrose11]

Do you plan on using a STS?

[Make-a-Wake]

I'm guessin that 6s2p for the Lehner and 8s2p for the Neu would be real close, looking forward to your data, that will be very interesting!

[kfxguy]

I'm guessin that 6s2p for the Lehner and 8s2p for the Neu would be real close, looking forward to your data, that will be very interesting!

Your probably right. The neu is really for a sport setup when I yank the lehner. I do plan on 8s with the lehner in my shocker tho!


On a side note....I will be doing some data logs on it so I'll be able to compare that too.

[Local Boy]

Very nice Brutha!

I always enjoy following your builds...Very nice work...

Thanks for sharing...

Aloha

[Make-a-Wake]

Is this hull just under the limit for P mono if you chose to race it sometime?

[kfxguy]

Is this hull just under the limit for P mono if you chose to race it sometime?

I'm not sure but in my last thread it was mentioned that it was legal for p mono.

[Fella1340]

looking good travis,looks like you wont be short of power with either motor! Builds looking nice so far, I hope the hull performs well at high speed for you, I'm guessing it should be good to go given where it came from. Nice to see something different coming out of the kfx build shed. Does this make it 5 different builds in progress now?