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Thread: Winston Eagle Canard.

  1. #1
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    Default Winston Eagle Canard.

    I've been wanting to get a bigger Canard running but the cost of hulls, the cost of postage to Australia & the exchange rate of the Aussie Dollar has made it prohibitive.
    So with Mikes blessing I'm going to butcher one of his ML Boatworks, Winston Eagle (lobster) kits & turn it into some sort of a canard.
    This is a fun thing. Not for racing.
    The kit arrived last week & after a bit of deliberation on how things were going to be set up I got started on it.
    The tub & sponsons were basically stuck together in a few hours.
    I had to take some of the height off the sponsons so it was flush with the narrower tub at the rear of the boat.
    I also reduced the AoA of the wing so that the top of it lined up with the sponson & the tub.
    To fit the front shoe, the angle of the front part of the hull was reduced before I installed a base plate for the shoe. (See the pencil line in photo #3)
    Building the boat won't be difficult, but getting it to run nicely most certainly will be.
    Here's a few pics of the story so far.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    And a few more
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #3
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    Paul, this is going to be interesting and I have no doubts that it will be a nice running hull.....
    Tunnels-PS295. Cats-H&M M1 Supercat Daytona rivercat. Monos-DF Cyberstorm HiTech 29. Hydros- Ms K Vac-U-Pickle Custom built 37" shovel 10th scale converted to FE Shadow. Rigger-H&M Evo II. AQ Harbortug recovery boat. Build in progress 37" cf Dragboat

  4. #4
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    Pretty ambitious build Fisher canards are amoung the best turning boats I have ever seen !!

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    DJ'.
    I've got plenty of doubts. But I won't die wondering eh!

    Chris.
    The most ambitious part is the fact that the heels of the sponsons will be about 9" in front of the main transom & therefore the prop/rudder setup. Most canards have the ride surfaces back level with the transom. I've got no idea what effects that will have. I was going to cut the tails off the sponsons & move them further back. But that just looked all wrong & out of proportion.
    It's now like a hydro with a very short after plane. But with some support at the front.
    We'll see what happens.

    Any theories or knowledge on what the results could be will be gratefully accepted.
    Last edited by 785boats; 11-13-2014 at 08:00 PM.

  6. #6
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    Paul, this is gonna be a very cool build, can't wait to see how it runs. I'm sure you'll get it sorted out, after all your "Double Daytona" ran real nice for the first attempt. Have you ran it any more?

  7. #7
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    Move them back cut off the rear of the sponsons ? Also I don't know if you know but the port rear sponson should be around 1/4" higher then the starboard one

  8. #8
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    Thanks for your words of confidence. As long as the deck always points to the sky, I'll be happy enough. There's a guy in our club that is building the Lobster in its true form. It will be fun when we have them on the water at the same time.

    With the M hull, I did run it a couple more times but I flipped it & the tape peeled away & the boat filled with water. Lost a couple of speedies out of that. But I had to rob the motors & esc's back out of it to put back into the race boats. But it's our last Race day on Sunday, so after that I'll swap them around again & try a few more runs in the off season.
    Our club is starting up an offshore Cat & Mono class next year. It would be good to have it running around in that class.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasboata View Post
    Move them back cut off the rear of the sponsons ? Also I don't know if you know but the port rear sponson should be around 1/4" higher then the starboard one
    I'm not putting any rear sponsons on the tub. It will just be running on the main sponsons & the front shoe.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 785boats View Post
    I'm not putting any rear sponsons on the tub. It will just be running on the main sponsons & the front shoe.
    that is what I am talking about I guess you are calling them main sponsons ?

  11. #11
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    Aaah! Sorry. Now I understand.
    What's the reasoning behind the different heights though? I've not heard of that before. Wouldn't that cause the boat to lean to the outside of the corner slightly?
    It's all academic now though because the spars & sponsons are all attached.
    However the port sponson does have more dihedral on the ride pad than the starboard sponson. That one is pretty much flat. It's how the kit is originally designed. I just left it as it was.

    Here's a little test for you Chris. And anyone else that might wish to venture a guess.
    The boat is 42" long & 20" wide at the ride pads.(23" wide overall)
    The motor will be an HET 700-83 1080kv on 8s1p.
    What would your best guestimate for a prop be? At least to start with. Let's assume that I don't need too much lift in the prop.

    But here's a couple of pics.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
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    455??

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    Quote Originally Posted by 785boats View Post
    The boat is 42" long & 20" wide at the ride pads.(23" wide overall)
    The motor will be an HET 700-83 1080kv on 8s1p.
    What would your best guestimate for a prop be? At least to start with. Let's assume that I don't need too much lift in the prop.
    As a start, a x447 or H7.

  14. #14
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    that is sweet, 8s , what speed r u lookin at? and it looks like a real stable boat .

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayR View Post
    As a start, a x447 or H7.
    Thanks ray. That's pretty much the size range I was thinking. A Prather s230 was in my thoughts too.

    jcald2000
    A 455 might be a bit big to start with. We'll see if we work up to it.


    Thanks Darryl.
    The same sort of set up in my other 1/8 scales get them running in the 60 - 65 mph range. I'm probably being optimistic, but I'm hoping for around the same with this one. But it's more of a showboat than a race boat. So the top speed isn't all that critical. I will be happy if it stays on the water with the deck facing the sky. Oh yeah, & goes around the corners too.

  16. #16
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    is this boat in the same class as a rigger? like a JAE. or a sport hydro. also lookin at your boat, could you run an outboard like a tunnel. an r u using a turn fin?your boat has got me thinking,

  17. #17
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    Cool

    If you want 60-65 mph then you will need more pitch than an x447. An x648 should work, but is on the small side for that hull and 8S. Mike recommends a Neu 1527-size motor and this is a common size for 1/8th scales. The HETs are great motors, I run a 700-83-1445 in a 4S Cheetah and swing an x457/3 pulling just 100 amps average draw. The longer 700-98-1170 motor may work better for you.




    .
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  18. #18
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    Subscribed.
    Good luck Paul. Quite an ambitious build. I love it!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by darryl whitman View Post
    is this boat in the same class as a rigger? like a JAE. or a sport hydro. also looking at your boat, could you run an outboard like a tunnel. an r u using a turn fin?your boat has got me thinking,
    Darryl.
    No. Not a Rigger.The original Lobster is on the 1/8 scale MHR register.
    Although I've moved the sponsons back to be a 'Canard' style hull, it is still classed as a Hydroplane but not specifically an 1/8 scale because there was not a full size one built in this format. Like I said in a previous post, it's a fun thing. I doubt if it will ever be a race boat. But as they say, 'hope always burns Eternal'.
    The carbon spars are just for strength. They will be covered with skins to make the main wing & the ram wing just like the original Lobster hydro.
    I'm still toying with the idea of making the trailing flap of the ram wing adjustable, because I have no idea if it will need lift or down force, now that it has been moved back further in relation the the rest of the hull.
    If anyone has any ideas on that, I'm all ears.
    As for an outboard set up? I have no Idea. I'm sure that will open up a whole new box of challenges. Challenges, I feel, you need to accept Darryl.
    I don't expect to need a turn fin in the traditional sense, on the heel of the main sponson. But the Canard I designed, in my Avatar, turned so much better with a very small turn fin in the center of heel of the front shoe. I might need to do the same here.
    But I will be glassing in some 6mm Aluminium plate on the inside of the starboard sponson, just incase I need a turn fin there later.

    Jay.
    Thanks for your input. Always appreciated, for sure.
    The 1527/1y has had my 1/8 U-95 up to 70mph, with a Prather s235. It was with a GPS, but an accurate one. So I can always try that motor in this boat too.
    But I have the HET 1080kv motor already, so I have to try that first.
    That's some impressive prop size & current draw numbers with a 1445kv motor on 4s. And I have no doubt that the boat is quick.

    Keith.
    Thanks for that.
    I think it will be worth it in the end. One way or another.
    Last edited by 785boats; 11-16-2014 at 03:54 AM.

  20. #20
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    I will always agree to starting smaller!

  21. #21
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    Paul, since this hull is so unusual I would make that ram wing functional just in case. Better to have it working now, than having to change it later. You did give me a thought on the wing I'm designing for my drag boat, I had not thought about making it capable of providing both up and down force, so thanks... DJ
    Tunnels-PS295. Cats-H&M M1 Supercat Daytona rivercat. Monos-DF Cyberstorm HiTech 29. Hydros- Ms K Vac-U-Pickle Custom built 37" shovel 10th scale converted to FE Shadow. Rigger-H&M Evo II. AQ Harbortug recovery boat. Build in progress 37" cf Dragboat

  22. #22
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    You tipped the scales DJ.
    I've made the bases for the ram wings with some 1/4 scale aileron hinges built in to them. Just a simple crank on a sliding rod & lock nut for adjustment.

    Also added the bottom skins to the main wings.
    And started the small sponsons on the front shoe. It will have a sort of tunnel in the middle.
    Now it's time to splash some resin around the inside of everything to seal it all up.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  23. #23
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    Wow, your fast ! That looks great Paul...I enjoy following your builds, you give me so many ideas.... DJ
    Tunnels-PS295. Cats-H&M M1 Supercat Daytona rivercat. Monos-DF Cyberstorm HiTech 29. Hydros- Ms K Vac-U-Pickle Custom built 37" shovel 10th scale converted to FE Shadow. Rigger-H&M Evo II. AQ Harbortug recovery boat. Build in progress 37" cf Dragboat

  24. #24
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    This thing is looking great!! I can't believe you're wingin' it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by olwarbirds View Post
    Wow, your fast ! That looks great Paul...I enjoy following your builds, you give me so many ideas.... DJ
    He! He! I knocked them up last night while downing a few cold draughts of Cider. It's been damn hot here lately.
    I would wait & see if some of the ideas work out first if I were you, or you might just be following me down a spiraling path to destruction.


    Chris.
    Gut feeling & instinct sometimes works out. Of course, more often than not, it doesn't.
    But with a wing & a prayer, anything is possible. Improbable, but possible.

  26. #26
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    Allright, I have got to get subscribed here. Years back I tore into my Systems 7 cat to build a wing at the front of the tunnel. Life happened and well... I am still curious.

  27. #27
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    Welcome aboard mate.

    After adding some 2 part foam to the sponsons & sanding to shape, I glued on the skins to the sponsons & wings.
    I also added some foam blocks to the front shoe & shaped them to what felt about right & then covered them with 1.5mm ply.
    Top deck of the tub & the cowling are next.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  28. #28
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    Here we go again. I don't look into this forum for a couple of days, I come back, and there's more builds I have to watch!!!
    Great stuff Paul, another awesome build as usual, but this build is a better cos there is a little bit of "unknown" to it!!
    I'm sure you will have it running sweetly in no time...

  29. #29
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    Paul, your spiraling down is opposite to mine so hopefully my ideas using your thoughts will spiral up ...love the sense of humor you have brother...as always its looking great and I have no doubts its going to be a fun and nice running hull... DJ
    Tunnels-PS295. Cats-H&M M1 Supercat Daytona rivercat. Monos-DF Cyberstorm HiTech 29. Hydros- Ms K Vac-U-Pickle Custom built 37" shovel 10th scale converted to FE Shadow. Rigger-H&M Evo II. AQ Harbortug recovery boat. Build in progress 37" cf Dragboat

  30. #30
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    First off, way to go mate, this so far of what I read is a really cool build. Canards are really cool and if anyone can get it running well it would be you by the looks of your avatar.

    MOre to read in this exciting build...
    Nortavlag Bulc

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