GPS Signal In Cabon Fiber Boats

[dethow]

Does anyone have first hand experience with GPS signals in carbon fiber boats? And yes, with a c/f hatch not f/g.

I currently have a Garmin Foretrex 301, but I'm considering getting a Quanum GPS Logger V2. I don't want to waste the money if there are signal problems in general with GPS in carbon fiber boats.

I'm asking because my c/f boats do not run yet. Building them over this winter and I'm starting to put together plans and buy additional parts.

[kfxguy]

Yes I have experience with it. Your gps will not read AT ALL inside a carbon boat with a carbon hatch. I have to run fiberglass hatches on mine to get a gps signal. Don't believe me? Walk outside, turn your gps on. Let it catch signal. Put your carbon hatch over it. Wait about 30 seconds. Look at it. No signal.

[dethow]

Yes I have experience with it. Your gps will not read AT ALL inside a carbon boat with a carbon hatch. I have to run fiberglass hatches on mine to get a gps signal. Don't believe me? Walk outside, turn your gps on. Let it catch signal. Put your carbon hatch over it. Wait about 30 seconds. Look at it. No signal.

I believe you... and I planned on doing that with one of my bare hulls, but when the thought came to me last night it was dark and didn't feel like going outside.
Thanks for the response. And so begins the search for fiberglass hatches.

[dethow]

Travis,
I have an email out to Keith at Fightercat, but do you have any fiberglass hatches for the 32" River Cat you may want to sell?

[kfxguy]

Travis,
I have an email out to Keith at Fightercat, but do you have any fiberglass hatches for the 32" River Cat you may want to sell?

I dont, I'm on the search for some myself.

[dethow]

I dont, I'm on the search for some myself.

Could you let me know if you locate any? I only need one.
I will do the same, but the only source I know of would be Keith at Fighter Cat and I would imagine you have already checked with him.

[runzwithsizorz]

I have waterproofed my GPS expander module for the Eagletree logger. It has 11" of cord which I run through a small notch in the hatch and tape it down topside. I also have the power panel LCD
For *instant* readings, no need to plug into a laptop. Also tells me Amps, Volts, mAH, Temperatures, Wattage, and RPM. Just a thought, and an alternative.
I have also seen people use half a roll of tape to *secure* a handheld GPS on the deck

[dethow]

I have considered cutting a panel out of the hatch, gluing in a piece of plexy glass, and then mount the Quanum GPS Logger to the hatch right under the glass so I can see the readout without opening the hatch.
Any thoughts on that???

[dethow]

Travis, I heard back from Keith. As I'm sure you already knew he doesn't sell just the hatch.
I'm considering buying a fiberglass hull to get the hatch. I would then put my c/f hatch on that boat and try to sell.

But I'm also considering my idea of cutting out a panel and gluing in a piece of plexy. Do you have any thoughts on that so I can make to decision on ordering the fiberglass hull?

[Rocstar]

Contact Tom at http://www.ampeaterracing.com he has ordered a couple FG hatches for me in the past.

BTW, whereabouts in Michigan are you?

[kfxguy]

Travis, I heard back from Keith. As I'm sure you already knew he doesn't sell just the hatch.
I'm considering buying a fiberglass hull to get the hatch. I would then put my c/f hatch on that boat and try to sell.

But I'm also considering my idea of cutting out a panel and gluing in a piece of plexy. Do you have any thoughts on that so I can make to decision on ordering the fiberglass hull?

That's about your only option at this point. I'm sure you could get your money back if you sold the fiberglass hull with your carbon hatch. It looks sweet with a carbon hatch. I have a lead on some hatches but it's going to take a few weeks to get them. Once I get an answer back, I'll send you to them.

[dethow]

Thanks Rocstar and kfxguy.
I emailed Tom at Amp Eater and I have an email out to Monica at TFL for my Pursuit and Viper hulls.

Travis, does the River Cat called anything else you know of by others?

Rocstar, I'm from West Bloomfield. I've been in contact with Jeff (Kaotic) whom you may know. He lives just a couple miles from me.

[kfxguy]

Thanks Rocstar and kfxguy.
I emailed Tom at Amp Eater and I have an email out to Monica at TFL for my Pursuit and Viper hulls.

Travis, does the River Cat called anything else you know of by others?

Rocstar, I'm from West Bloomfield. I've been in contact with Jeff (Kaotic) whom you may know. He lives just a couple miles from me.

Another name for it is apparition. ...

[Kaotic]

Hey Dave, I'll have to say I've been using that Garmin 101 all summer long that I bought used off of amazon in my boat and I've never once had a problem. However, my boat was FG and I did a CF inlay, I keep the GPS more towards the back of the boat and the only spot that doesn't have CF is the top of the front deck. So maybe the signal is sneaking in through there maybe??image.jpg

[dethow]

Thanks Kaotic, but my boats are 100% CF so I don't think the signal will sneak through based on what kfxguy has said on the matter.

[kfxguy]

Thanks Kaotic, but my boats are 100% CF so I don't think the signal will sneak through based on what kfxguy has said on the matter.

Tried in my shocker and my cheetah. Both came back with no signal.

[Rocstar]

Any conductive material such as carbon fiber will block signals like radio and GPS.

[Kaotic]

Thanks Kaotic, but my boats are 100% CF so I don't think the signal will sneak through based on what kfxguy has said on the matter.

I was just really saying that almost my entire hull is CF with only a little patch up front on the deck that is FG and the signal must be getting in through there. If you like body work and you are thinking of buying a FG hatch that you would probably end up painting. Why don't you cut like a 3"x4" oval in the top of your CF Hatch. Then on the inside of it glass in several layers of FG and maybe a little coremat (which I'll give you some). wait a day or to for it to dry. Then on the exterior of the hatch use some kind of body filler. I like Marine RX from west marine to fill in any dips. Let it dry and sand it to match. Then paint. I have access to a full paint booth right down the street from you and I and I have a nice airbrush we can use to paint it then we'll use a 2 part clear to make it look nice and pretty! Just an idea

[dethow]

Kaotic,
Thanks soooo much for the offers on several aspects. really appreciated. :tiphat:

I did have a thought on cutting out the CF and gluing in a piece of plexy glass from the bottom side. Then I would mount a Quanum GPS right under it so it would get signal and I could read it without removing the hatch. The Quanum is about 1" x 3" in size. But after looking at my 3 boats... this would work on the fighter cat, but the pursuit and viper do not have significant flat areas on the hatch so I would have to cut into the hull itself to do this.
Not to sure I want to do that.

On the paint... My wife's uncle does custom paint on motor cycle tanks, fenders and helmets so I plan on approaching him to do all 3 of my boats up real nice.

[dethow]

Any conductive material such as carbon fiber will block signals like radio and GPS.

Yeah, I've heard about the radio issue but wasn't worried since I plan on having an external antenna tube. But as I considered buying the Quanum GPS loggers I realized this could be an issue for GPS as well.

[dethow]

Does anyone have thoughts on the plexy glass cut out idea? Would like some pros/cons/warnings if you have any.

[kfxguy]

Does anyone have thoughts on the plexy glass cut out idea? Would like some pros/cons/warnings if you have any.

I have not done this yet...but my take on it.... I feel like in a hard crash that becomes a failure point. What happens if it detaches when you have a hard slap againt the water......... guess youll find out at that point a few things.... (if the glue used holds and if not, if you put enough floatation in the hull and if your electronics are truly waterproof)

[kevinpratt823]

Does anyone have thoughts on the plexy glass cut out idea? Would like some pros/cons/warnings if you have any.

Been pondering that for a few seasons, just haven't done it. Would be great to be able to see it without removing the hatch.

[dethow]

I have not done this yet...but my take on it.... I feel like in a hard crash that becomes a failure point. What happens if it detaches when you have a hard slap againt the water......... guess youll find out at that point a few things.... (if the glue used holds and if not, if you put enough floatation in the hull and if your electronics are truly waterproof)

Agreed... one thought I had was to use 4 to 6 small bolt/nuts to unsure the glue/epoxy does not give. The glue/epoxy basically become a water sealing agent at that point. Could have a nice finished look. I will continue to ponder and update if I decide to go down that road.
I like the idea, but I have so much to do already over this winter with 3 boats under construction.

[Rocstar]

Agreed... one thought I had was to use 4 to 6 small bolt/nuts to unsure the glue/epoxy does not give. The glue/epoxy basically become a water sealing agent at that point. Could have a nice finished look. I will continue to ponder and update if I decide to go down that road.
I like the idea, but I have so much to do already over this winter with 3 boats under construction.

I would use more bolts to hold it in place, next to each other all the way around. Otherwise water will find a way in during a hard crash.

[kfxguy]

I would use more bolts to hold it in place, next to each other all the way around. Otherwise water will find a way in during a hard crash.

Yep. I agree...then the holes could become ripping/cracking points. Damned if you do...Damned if you dont.

[dethow]

I would use more bolts to hold it in place, next to each other all the way around. Otherwise water will find a way in during a hard crash.

Could use an alloy/aluminum support ribbon around the interior perimeter. This would allow for the pressure from the 6 bolts to apply equal force around the entire opening. And we're only talking about a 1" x 3" cutout that would be sealed with epoxy. I think there would be a much higher risk of the entire hatch coming off if the crash was that hard. After all, were comparing a single layer of tape holding down a large hatch verses 6 bolts and epoxy holding a small piece of plexy.

[Rocstar]

Could use an alloy/aluminum support ribbon around the interior perimeter. This would allow for the pressure from the 6 bolts to apply equal force around the entire opening. And we're only talking about a 1" x 3" cutout that would be sealed with epoxy. I think there would be a much higher risk of the entire hatch coming off if the crash was that hard. After all, were comparing a single layer of tape holding down a large hatch verses 6 bolts and epoxy holding a small piece of plexy.

That would work. I like Jeff's idea also.

[kfxguy]

Could use an alloy/aluminum support ribbon around the interior perimeter. This would allow for the pressure from the 6 bolts to apply equal force around the entire opening. And we're only talking about a 1" x 3" cutout that would be sealed with epoxy. I think there would be a much higher risk of the entire hatch coming off if the crash was that hard. After all, were comparing a single layer of tape holding down a large hatch verses 6 bolts and epoxy holding a small piece of plexy.

The hatch is in a recess....little different than a piece of plexi bolted in from the underside. If you use an aluminum frame I think that would work.

[dethow]

That would work. I like Jeff's idea also.

I also like Jeff's idea, but if I'm going to paint a cf piece to cover the body work I might as well just find that fg hatch somewhere.

I really can't believe these things are not more readily available. I have to believe a few have been lost during a hard crash to the bottom of the lake. And I've seen some body work completed on racer's hatches do to crashes with other boats.

Worst case for me is that I will purchase an entire fg hull, take the fg hatch, and then resell it with my cf hatch on the boat.

I'm just discussing the possibility of this plexy idea so I could save some money on 3 boat hatches, keep the cf look throughout, and generally think it may be cool looking.