Radio Advice

[SweetAccord]

This question is for all members that have any experience with different RC radios.

Here is my situation. I have an Airtronics MX-3 which has never been used. In reading all the different advantages about 2.4 GHZ radios, should I sell the MX-3 as "new never used" and upgrade to 2.4Ghz or stay with the FM? In upgrading, I'm considering the Airtronics MX-3FHSS as it's the most affordable 2.4 Ghz I can find and has the same layout/features as the MX-3. Anyone had any issues with it that are using it in a fiberglass hull? I'm also fond of the Futaba line, any recommendations on one over the other?

Thank you kindly.

[Bill-SOCAL]

First, changing to 2.4 is not really an upgrade, despite everyone thinking that.

If you are thinking of buying a new radio I would get a 2.4 simply because it relieves you of ever worrying about interference from other radios and from most internally generated noise. It is also wonderful not ever having to go to the frequency board!!

Plus you never have to worry about some kid with a car or truck in the parking lot from causing a "situation".

But 2.4 is not perfect either. Some work better than others. I use the Futaba FASST 2.4 which has been flawless for me.

I'd ask around your area, maybe do some more investigation and decide which system is for you. However, if your present radio is working fine and you have no issues with channel conflicts and alike, I see no reason to get 2.4 because it is "better".

[oldshovelhead]

I like the JR Racing XS3 Pro.
10 model memory and the RS310 is a pretty small RX.

[SweetAccord]

So why should I get a XS3 exactly?

[oldshovelhead]

Here are the specs -
http://www.jrradios.com/Products/Tec...odID=JRP337275
For me the model memory and smaller rx were the selling points.

[bonewar]

SweetAccord mate i use the mx-3FHSS i have had no problems , i use it for my sv27,maritimo cat,sv27 nitro . sometimes i run the boats along side the local sailing rc boys, i've never had interference, or glitches form this controller. so i would recommend it as a very good choice.bonewar

[Apples1]

i am also going to by the airtronics 2.4 FHSS, i have also heard good reports.

[azjc]

another nice thing about the 2.4ghjz radios is that you don't need to have the Rx antenea exposed..at least that is the case with my land models ( I am new to boats but expierenced with MTs and Truggies using BL and lipo setups)

[Bill-SOCAL]

another nice thing about the 2.4ghjz radios is that you don't need to have the Rx antenea exposed..at least that is the case with my land models ( I am new to boats but expierenced with MTs and Truggies using BL and lipo setups)

I will have to disagree with this. Simply because the antenna is shorter and easier to hide inside the boat or radio box is no reason to do so.

In fact, it is far more critical that you do in fact get the antenna up and out as much as possible.

The very short wavelength of the 2.4 gigahertz radios is easily attenuated/blocked by physical objects like motor, batteries, etc. And carbon fiber is a killer.

Even if all you can do is get a bit of it outside the boat I strongly urge people to do so.

On the Futaba FASST systems the actual antenna portion of the wire coming out of the RX is the short "bare" portion on the very end. It really is no big deal to get the antenna outside the boat and set in a vertical orientation.

[SweetAccord]

I will have to disagree with this. Simply because the antenna is shorter and easier to hide inside the boat or radio box is no reason to do so.

In fact, it is far more critical that you do in fact get the antenna up and out as much as possible.

The very short wavelength of the 2.4 gigahertz radios is easily attenuated/blocked by physical objects like motor, batteries, etc. And carbon fiber is a killer.

Even if all you can do is get a bit of it outside the boat I strongly urge people to do so.

On the Futaba FASST systems the actual antenna portion of the wire coming out of the RX is the short "bare" portion on the very end. It really is no big deal to get the antenna outside the boat and set in a vertical orientation.

I agree with the antenna statement, that is common knowledge actually if you do enough research. I guess my question is what is the REAL advantage of 2.4? I'm not concerned with antenna length or size of the receivers, how it looks or feels one compared to another.

I'm trying to justify to NOT use FM and go to 2.4Ghz. I have read where people have lost control with 2.4Ghz and people that state stay with a good FM radio. I have read where people use 2.4Ghz and have stated they NEVER had an issue. Some have said their range was shorter with 2.4Ghz and had glitching too. I know it's all about the setup and where they are running their models.

I guess I'm looking for someone that can say "I had FM and had issues" like this or that, "then went to 2.4Ghz and now its fine" and explain what the issue was. Maybe I'm asking too much of someone to state all that. I'm 50-50 on do I really need to spend the money to 2.4Ghz or just stay with FM? Maybe a poll of how may people use FM or 2.4Ghz would answer this question.

[Bill-SOCAL]

2.4 advantages:

1) no worry about frequency/channel conflicts
2) no worry of external interference
3) no worry about most internally generated RF noise (metal to metal, etc.)


Disadvantages:

1) some systems work better than others in boats.
2) cost can be high depending on how many RXs you need
3) most require the use of 6 volt receiver packs

Again, if your radio is working fine and you have no plans to buy a new one, then I would wait. However, if you are planning on a new radio, then when you buy it I would buy a 2.4 system.


I have the FUtaba FASST 2.4 system in 9 boats ranging from a 24 inch FE sport hydro to a very fast T-mono to two all out gas racing boats. I have never had an issue. The FASST system is one that has been shown to be very robust and reliable in boats.

[SweetAccord]

Disadvantages:

3) most require the use of 6 volt receiver packs

I have the FUtaba FASST 2.4 system in 9 boats ranging from a 24 inch FE sport hydro to a very fast T-mono to two all out gas racing boats. I have never had an issue. The FASST system is one that has been shown to be very robust and reliable in boats.

So with the Futaba do you have to run a receiver pack or can you use a BEC?

[Bill-SOCAL]

BEC is fine, especially in a smaller single servo FE boat. Larger boats, or ones with 2 or more servos are better off with out the BEC and use a receiver pack.

I have had no issues with the BEC in the SV power system that I have in 2 boats that I run the Futaba FASST radio in. They supply a steady 5.2 volts.

[SweetAccord]

Ok, so how much did you get the Futaba 2.4 for? Who has a good deal on it?

[Apples1]

Hang on a minute!!!!!!!!! i am just about to buy a 2.4 system and i have a full CF boat coming soon, will this work??????

[Bill-SOCAL]

Depends on if you want pistol or 2 stick 3, 4, or 6 channels.

Tower has the best selection and prices in general on these radios. Sometimes you can find them on the web.

I have both a 3PM and the new 4PK. For 99.9% of boats the 3PM is more than plenty of radio.


http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXPZT7&P=SM

4PK

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXTHR6&P=SM

[Bill-SOCAL]

Hang on a minute!!!!!!!!! i am just about to buy a 2.4 system and i have a full CF boat coming soon, will this work??????

Yes, as long as you get the antenna OUTSIDE the hull. If it is a Futaba FASST system all you really need to do is get the bare looking end outside and you are good to go.

Can't say about other systems, but I do know that CF attenuates 2.4 GHz RF badly.

[Simon.O.]

This may make interesting reading for those who are following this thread and have not see my other threads.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/for...ead.php?t=4762

http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/fefor...769#post243769

[SweetAccord]

This may make interesting reading for those who are following this thread and have not see my other threads.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/for...ead.php?t=4762

http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/fefor...769#post243769

Right...that is why I'm asking as I saw your experience with the 2.4's as well as some others didn't go that well. WOW, and after reading the experience that David Nieuwland said, I'll stick with the FM.

Thanks!

[AndyKunz]

I'm selling my two Futaba 3PDF's with receivers. I'm going Spektrum for ALL my models. Make an offer!

Andy

[azjc]

Depends on if you want pistol or 2 stick 3, 4, or 6 channels.

Tower has the best selection and prices in general on these radios. Sometimes you can find them on the web.

I have both a 3PM and the new 4PK. For 99.9% of boats the 3PM is more than plenty of radio.


http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXPZT7&P=SM

4PK

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXTHR6&P=SM

I bought my 3PM from Tower and I believe they have a $20 kickback for purchases over $150

[Bill-SOCAL]

Right...that is why I'm asking as I saw your experience with the 2.4's as well as some others didn't go that well. WOW, and after reading the experience that David Nieuwland said, I'll stick with the FM.

Thanks!

What exactly did Dave have to say??

I can tell you that not all 2.4 systems are the same. I can also tell you that the Futaba FASST system has been flawless for me and that I have not heard of any problems from other boaters. Like I said, the same cannot be said about all 2.4 radios.

[SweetAccord]

What exactly did Dave have to say??

I can tell you that not all 2.4 systems are the same. I can also tell you that the Futaba FASST system has been flawless for me and that I have not heard of any problems from other boaters. Like I said, the same cannot be said about all 2.4 radios.

This was posted yesterday on a UK forum by David Nieuwland, a competitor at the recent World Championships in Poland:

08-27-2008, 03:21 AM; Originally Posted by David Nieuwland

At the World's in Poland Spektrum worked very badly as well. Almost anyone using Spektrum in Poland had a runnaway at one point or another , they will not admit that offcourse but I was there and I know what I saw and encountered myself. I was forced to switch back to my 40mHz during the whole championship and swap receivers all the time.

[Bill-SOCAL]

He is talking about the "Spektrum" brand of radio, NOT all spread spectrum radios. This is a constant point of confusion. The Spektrum brand radios are not proving to be as reliable as some others. Certainly there are people who have had good luck, but it is just that, luck.

A second issue for ALL spread spectrum radios in Europe is that they are limited to a lower power and this negatively effects their performance.

Just to be clear:

"Spektrum" is a brand of radio (JR uses their technology)
Spread Spectrum (SS) is a type of radio transmission

So, all Spektrum radios are spread spectrum type of radios. But not all spread spectrum radios are Spektrum!!

Spektrum uses one type of SS implementation where it locks 2 channels at start up. A SS "channel" is not quite the same as what we are used to, but that is the term they use. If there is interference on the one channel the radio hops to the other channel. It will hop back if the second one has a problem. If both have issues then it locks out. Statistically there is a very low probability of both channels having issues. Their are 40 channel pairs in the 2.4 GHz band where we operate, so they are limited to 40 of their sets on at a time. THe 41st will not turn on since it cannot find a free pair.

The Futaba FASST (Futaba Advanced Spread Spectrum Technology) implements SS differently. It sweeps across the entire 2.4 GHz band allotted for this use 500 times a second. It never pauses it just keeps sweeping. This method makes it nearly impossible for interference to cause an issue. The Futaba FASST radios have been proven to work very well in boats.

Spektrum and Futaba FASST radios do NOT interfere with each other. The FASST radio sweeps the spectrum so fast that the JR/Spektrum radio never knows it is there.

[SweetAccord]

I know it was about the Spektrum. My point is that for now the 2.4Ghz is kinda a lot of money to put down to "take a chance" regardless. When the prices fall and maybe some issues are resolved or improved upon, I'll keep it in mind maybe down the road. I appreciate all the input Bill.

[Bill-SOCAL]

I don't agree. The Spektrum brand radios have been widely shown not to be as robust as the Futaba radios. So there IS a difference. There are at least 3 major methods of SS implementation and it seems to matter which one is used, at least in boats.

So, if you select a proven radio there really is no "take a chance" to it. Choose one with a lesser record of success, and then yes, you are in some senses "taking a chance".

[SweetAccord]

I know there is a difference, and I like Futaba no question there. I have a Futaba radio that is more than 10 years old and it's still working! I'll just have to think about all the justification and spending the money.

Thanks.

[JimClark]

I think you are refering to older ones Bill. Now I have an older one and have experienced zero problems used in both wood and carbon fiber hulls with the antenna extended as far as possible out the hull. There are a bunch of older spektrums that are used in ERCU with no problems. I know for a fact that the new spektrums are also much improved and have eliminated the problems of the early radios. So if you are looking for a 2.4 and decide on a spektrum I would get a new one.

Jim

He is talking about the "Spektrum" brand of radio, NOT all spread spectrum radios. This is a constant point of confusion. The Spektrum brand radios are not proving to be as reliable as some others. Certainly there are people who have had good luck, but it is just that, luck.

A second issue for ALL spread spectrum radios in Europe is that they are limited to a lower power and this negatively effects their performance.

Just to be clear:

"Spektrum" is a brand of radio (JR uses their technology)
Spread Spectrum (SS) is a type of radio transmission

So, all Spektrum radios are spread spectrum type of radios. But not all spread spectrum radios are Spektrum!!

Spektrum uses one type of SS implementation where it locks 2 channels at start up. A SS "channel" is not quite the same as what we are used to, but that is the term they use. If there is interference on the one channel the radio hops to the other channel. It will hop back if the second one has a problem. If both have issues then it locks out. Statistically there is a very low probability of both channels having issues. Their are 40 channel pairs in the 2.4 GHz band where we operate, so they are limited to 40 of their sets on at a time. THe 41st will not turn on since it cannot find a free pair.

The Futaba FASST (Futaba Advanced Spread Spectrum Technology) implements SS differently. It sweeps across the entire 2.4 GHz band allotted for this use 500 times a second. It never pauses it just keeps sweeping. This method makes it nearly impossible for interference to cause an issue. The Futaba FASST radios have been proven to work very well in boats.

Spektrum and Futaba FASST radios do NOT interfere with each other. The FASST radio sweeps the spectrum so fast that the JR/Spektrum radio never knows it is there.

[Bill-SOCAL]

I think you are refering to older ones Bill. Now I have an older one and have experienced zero problems used in both wood and carbon fiber hulls with the antenna extended as far as possible out the hull. There are a bunch of older spektrums that are used in ERCU with no problems. I know for a fact that the new spektrums are also much improved and have eliminated the problems of the early radios. So if you are looking for a 2.4 and decide on a spektrum I would get a new one.

Jim

Yes, my reference was to Spektrum radios made up to earlier this year. I have not seen much either way about the latest generation of Spektrum radios.

[Geeves]

Ha SweetAccord, Im just going to follow you around ose.com it seems like every question im going to ask you post the the same question a day or two before me.