Chris Fine - Fine Design RC

[fidelity101]

I asked, on this forum, what specific problems people had and several people reported fraudulent billings, items not as described, items not received...but no one offered to post a specific situation or example.

I talked to Chris Fine on the telephone over several occasions and I was fooled into thinking that he was an honest and trustworthy business. I take partial blame as I should have avoided him solely because of the negative cloud around his reputation...but I did not.

I have spent approximately $2500 in the last two months on Remote Control Boats from Chris Fine. The first boat was a Conquest which came with everything but an ESC. I purchased the ESC from OSE because I like the Swordfish's ability to log data and Mr. Fine does not sell Swordfish products. The second boat was a Challenger Pro which again did not come with an ESC. While waiting for the Challenger to arrive, a faulty Tactic receiver in the Conquest caused the boat to run ashore. I asked Mr. Fine if he could cut me a break on some replacement parts. The new Challenger Pro arrived but it was lacking the transmitter, receiver, parts bag and grease tube. Not a big deal I thought, but I figured I'd ask Mr. Fine about it as I was expecting them. Instead of getting back to me, he bills my credit card $118 for a shaft, rudder and prop. I send another follow up email to Mr. Fine asking him to clarify the $118 charge and when I could expect my radio....here is his response

finedesignrc@yahoo.com
"Hi Mat sorry could not get back to you last night. I said receiver. And that was in the boat when you sent first videos to me . Parts out Monday. Thanks for up date. Chris FDM"

My response:
"As of today's mail, I do not have the $118 package. Hopefully it was not sent and a refund is pending?

Also, I searched the entire box one more time and I can not find the transmitter, receiver, hatch tape, grease and extras. I assumed these items would be included as they were included in the last "Ready to run minus ESC"...(Conquest 43" catamaran).

This email is a follow up to the email sent on Monday...please provide a status update when possible.

Thank you"


finedesignrc@yahoo.com response:
"Hi Mat sorry post not to you. I have tracking number if need. Should have Thursday , may be the long box. Grease was out at time of shipping. So tape & grease do to ship. As for radio problem, sorry but I can not cover that. I can replace radio. But you have receiver from maker on way . So the warranty is with them. Any damage is on them. As for order the cost is much different on mono. So I said, no esc, radio. Free 56.00 shipping cost me. I did not over charge you. As for the order you called in mess, so sat involved you. As a small business 2 guys . I do drop all the BS to get simple orders in and out. Sorry I did think of calling you on small order. If on any future sales , I would call on all CC. amounts before billed, NOW on your file. PS FDM is closed Sunday and Monday. You have seen I really try to help , not hurt. Later Chris Fine FDM."


I don't know about you guys, but Mr. Fine's responses are hard to read...most of it makes no sense to me! I've tried calling him, tried emailing him, I've given him the benefit of the doubt and I deeply regret it! I can continue to post the emails back and forth if anyone cares, but I posted the first few to show the horrible level of customer service. I am officially DONE!!! It's people like Mr. Fine that ruin this hobby for those of us just getting started.

The last response from Mr. Fine was:
"Mat I only can go so far. Your there . Refuse order I mailed. The 48" mono are 1289-1389.00 I gave you price of 1200.00 turn key. When I pull the parts and sell the boat. You put esc in that is not the same as mine. If the radio fails esc turns off. Yours did not do that. So that is something you may not know. Bottom line is I try , . Send bad receiver back. I will send new one. Then I am done. Please call someone else for any Questions. Chris Fine Fine Design Marine "

I have no ability to reject a package unless I'm home all day waiting for the postal employee. Also, I should have to reject a package I didn't ask for! The continued emails don't appear to be making any traction so I'm just going to stop and let the credit card company handle it. I'm posting this so others will know about what kind of service you can expect going forward....be warned!!!!

[kfxguy]

He does not communicate very well.

[fidelity101]

That's an understatement! I really wanted to keep the conversation positive as it's never worth saying something you will later regret. But with that said, charging a credit card without approval is just wrong! Prior to this, I was happy with the build quality of Mr. Fine's boats...hopefully now I'll at least have something to compare them to.

[PatrickM]

Having dealt with Mr. Fine for over 25 years, I have to say that he has never taken advantage of me personally..... but the reports of improper business practices haven't changed much in a quarter of a century!

[JimClark]

plenty of info on here if you had used the search function

[fidelity101]

Having dealt with Mr. Fine for over 25 years, I have to say that he has never taken advantage of me personally..... but the reports of improper business practices haven't changed much in a quarter of a century!

Well PatrickM, you're not the only one who's provided positive comments about Mr. Fine. I've read many negative posts but after talking to several of his supports, I thought that open and clear communication could avoid the pitfalls many have faced. This recent and very negative encounter could have been easily been avoided if Mr. Fine attempted even a sliver of customer service. I asked him, via email, if he could cut me a break on replacement parts because the Tactic receiver failed...he didn't take the time to respond. What he DID have time to do was bill my credit card without telling me! How can anyone justify that?

Mr. Fine offered the Challenger Pro boat after stating "It's ready to go, I'll pull the ESC and box it up". I specifically replied with "That's great, I don't trust Tactic but I'm sure I can use it in another model". The following week, the item arrives and it's missing the Transmitter, receiver, and parts bag. If he simply called me and stated that he changed his mind on the tx/rx and parts, I would have been ok with that. If he told me that he misunderstood our conversation and the parts shouldn't have been included, I would have respected that and offered a compromise. BUT, he chose to be rude and advised me not to call him with any questions going forward! How can anyone justify that? He runs a business, which I'm guessing revolves around repeat customers, yet he thinks his insulting emails are justifiable?

I would welcome assistance from any of his supporters. If you've been dealing with him for 25 years, you obviously know him well. Maybe you will have better luck getting through to him than I was. I don't want a fight. I don't want negativity. I just want the items he sold me...or a refund! There is still time to do the right thing...any help would be appreciated.

[Doby]

Might be time to cut your losses.....he is on this forum though, can't remember his name though...

You can always have the credit card charges reversed.

[Fella1340]

I wish you good luck. Let the credit card company sort it out or just walk away. I had a very negative experience with him when i first got into rc boats. I finally just let it go, not worth the stress and aggrevation. If your looking for something just post here and plenty of people will gladly steer you in the right direction.

[fidelity101]

I agree Doby...sadly. It's always hardest dealing with negative people when you're first getting into the hobby. At least we're heading into winter so I'll have plenty of time to learn how to build the boats myself and tweak the ones I have now.

I wish you good luck. Let the credit card company sort it out or just walk away. I had a very negative experience with him when i first got into rc boats. I finally just let it go, not worth the stress and aggrevation. If your looking for something just post here and plenty of people will gladly steer you in the right direction.

Thank you Fella1340. It's comments like that, and people like you, that make this hobby truly enjoyable! I hope to meet more of you in the future as I get more and more into the hobby. :)

[PatrickM]

Well PatrickM, you're not the only one who's provided positive comments about Mr. Fine.

Damn....,. didn't mean for my comments to sound positive, just not excessively negative. I had the advantage of knowing what to expect and was able to avoid the newbie pitfalls. Sorry that you (and all the other victims) were nailed. Hope your CC admins can help you out.

[Spartanator]

His words seem kind of jumbled... Glad I picked Travis to build me a boat.

[fidelity101]

Well so much for leaving it alone and moving on...I'm going to block his number and add his email to my spam list but this was the latest email.

"credit of 118.00 was given 11/6/14. You did remove parts from box. But full credit was given any way. Also usps delivery to you of grease and tape. As for the sales tax #YOU gave me it is no good. All of us pay sale tax . Your in NY I need to have this paid. Your sales tax is 162.27 . If I don't get thr sales tax. I have to report to state of NY. Thanks FDM billing dept."

There is so much wrong with this email, I don't even know where to begin. He bills me $118 without notification or approval and then complains when he gets the package back. He wants MORE money to cover the sales tax, but all prices included sales tax. I have the invoices to prove it along with emails and text messages. Why would I have provided a sales tax # to buy a boat? And finally, what is there to report to NY State...that I bought a boat?

It's like a nightmare that just won't END!!!!

[kfxguy]

His words seem kind of jumbled... Glad I picked Travis to build me a boat.

I feel like i communicate a little better.

[Luck as a Constant]

Wow....
He's walking all over you...


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[fidelity101]

Well, I admit that I'm not sure exactly how to respond. He seems hell bent on causing a negative interaction. I've tried posting the comments online in hopes that others in the community step up and offer input. I've disputed the charge that I never authorized and asked to have a new credit card number assigned. I stopped responding to his emails but they keep coming in. I've taken the insults and turned the other cheek but I'm really starting to get sick of it.

If anyone on this forum actually likes this Mr. Fine individual or his brother, I would appreciate the assistance in resolving this issue. I want nothing to do with him and I really don't want to escalate this issue any further...life's to short to spend any energy on negative people.

[Luck as a Constant]

Dude sometimes you gotta step up and assert yourself.
Nobody can tell you how to stand up for yourself but I would be shoveling $hi-l- down his throat by now.

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[Luck as a Constant]

He's gonna report you to state of ny? For what?!??
Guy is an edit cork.
Sorry Doug but it had to be said.


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[Fella1340]

Let him report whatever he thinks he's reporting. Keep your emails and invoices tucked away in the off chance anything comes of the taxes. Block his email, your done. He's trying to bully and intimidate you and that's where you dealing with him in any way should be over.
How's the rest of the boat/ planning coming along. What are you planning to do next?

[ray schrauwen]

Train wreck... my condolences.

[fidelity101]

Thanks for the comments Luck...it made me laugh. :) In the case of Mr. Fine, I think it's probably just not worth the hassle. He's burning bridges and causing himself more harm than good, I'm just posting it to warn others. I had heard about the problems he creates, but nothing I read could have prepared me for his nuclear customer service tactics.

Good redirection Fella1340. :) I'm going to build my Aeromarine Donzi over the winter...so my friend has something to run against my Challenger Pro. He's short on funds now so it's a build in waiting.

As for me, Keith Bradley was kind enough to show me a few pictures of his large scale boat builds and WOW!!!! Custom CNC work, quality motors, custom carbon fiber/kevlar work, ... very cool gear! If I can build up some cash, I'm definitely going to get one of his boats in the next year or so.

I wonder if anyone will be at the Weak Signals show in Toledo next year with any fast electric boats?

[Make-a-Wake]

I dealt with Mr Fine one time, ordered a Neu 1515, got it in and it was the wrong kv, it was a "shelf Demo" that already had bullets on it, thats what made me go hmmmmm? Called him, he sent me the right one and told me to keep the barely used one, which i sold................ go figure.

[JMSCARD]

Fastasyoucan

His username. Man that stinks.... I didn't help Matt much as I've had decent luck with Chris, never not Recieved anything but if course I live close enough to make the drive to Middletown if I had to... Hope it all works out Matt!

[drwayne]

I ordered a H&M 'in stock' hull from FDM a few years ago, it was dispatched 4 months after payment was made .. no email or telephone contact available .. always box full, rejected, or answering machine ...
Hmm
insert middle finger icon here → < >
never again.

[fastasyoucan]

Chris Fine here.....just like to say
- Fidelity101- Sat., we spoke at 3pm when you called me. I told you I was shipping that Monday. Why didnt you tell me to cancel order when I had only billed you 1 hour prior?
- if you receive a package from USPS and you're not home, you can still return, UNOPENED, to the post office.
- instead, YOU OPENED THE BOX, REMOVED 5 OF THE 9 ITEMS, AND RETURNED THE BALANCE!
I see that you found the post to return box at that point no?
- the fact that you are so upset that your buddy paid $150 on your first boat should not be protested to me.
- you did receive grease and tape, no charge, in your second shipment as I said I was out of grease to include in the earlier shipment
Bottom line, I provided you everything you paid for, AND MORE!
You could have cancelled the shipment in time, instead, YOU REMOVED MERCHANDISE YOU DIDN'T PAY FOR AT THIS POINT !
PS- LET'S NOT FORGET ALL THE INITIAL PHONE CALLS ON HOW TO FIX AND MAINTAIN EQUIPMENT YOU BOUGHT ELSEWHERE.

[Fella1340]

Let's not forget reporting of the taxes:-))

[fidelity101]

Chris Fine here.....just like to say
- Fidelity101- Sat., we spoke at 3pm when you called me. I told you I was shipping that Monday. Why didnt you tell me to cancel order when I had only billed you 1 hour prior?
- if you receive a package from USPS and you're not home, you can still return, UNOPENED, to the post office.
- instead, YOU OPENED THE BOX, REMOVED 5 OF THE 9 ITEMS, AND RETURNED THE BALANCE!
I see that you found the post to return box at that point no?
- the fact that you are so upset that your buddy paid $150 on your first boat should not be protested to me.
- you did receive grease and tape, no charge, in your second shipment as I said I was out of grease to include in the earlier shipment
Bottom line, I provided you everything you paid for, AND MORE!
You could have cancelled the shipment in time, instead, YOU REMOVED MERCHANDISE YOU DIDN'T PAY FOR AT THIS POINT !
PS- LET'S NOT FORGET ALL THE INITIAL PHONE CALLS ON HOW TO FIX AND MAINTAIN EQUIPMENT YOU BOUGHT ELSEWHERE.

I don't think it's worth very much time/effort trying to defend against your comments Mr. Fine, so I'll be brief. I removed the invoice from that "$118 package" in case you decided to make a false statement down the road. I also took a picture of it :) I see 5 line items and you claim to have mailed 9? But only received 5?

invoice-118.jpg

I could continue to disprove your comments, but I have a feeling you will just keep trying with more.

[fastasyoucan]

Good Morning-
yes there are 5 lines on the invoice, however, look closer and you will see the number "5" in the quantity column, which means 5 pieces of misc. parts etc.
The 5 pieces on that line, plus 4 others, make 9.

[fidelity101]

So you've misplaced "5" items with a line item value of $0 ... and you think it justifies your actions/comments? Seriously? If I find them in my shop, rest assured they will be going back to you.

Your comments about "As for the sales tax #YOU gave me it is no good" ... do you honestly believe NY state would believe that line of crap?

Do what you want, but I'm moving on.

[fastasyoucan]

Again, if you read the invoice the -0- appears under the "Price" column. That means that you were not charged for those 5 pieces.
So, the # 5 pieces is the quantity; the # 0 dollars means no charge, or free.
I shipped you 5 pieces and you were charged nothing for those items; only for the rest of the shipment.
I hope this clears up any problems you have understanding this invoice.

[Spartanator]

Again, if you read the invoice the -0- appears under the "Price" column. That means that you were not charged for those 5 pieces.
So, the # 5 pieces is the quantity; the # 0 dollars means no charge, or free.
I shipped you 5 pieces and you were charged nothing for those items; only for the rest of the shipment.
I hope this clears up any problems you have understanding this invoice.

I am not defending your or against you as I have never used your service(s)... If I may, it seems your are fighting a losing battle here. I may be right and you make a BA comeback but for some reason I just don't think that will happen. I have never seen so many negative postings (Not just in this thread) against someone. To me you are fighting a losing battle which is soon to be lost.

Best of luck (or Karma) not sure yet...

On a side note I thought we had a Middle Finger smiley icon on here???