charging in series

[urbs00007]

I'm going to run my 4 3-s battery packs as 2 6-s packs. they have been cycled numerous times and are close in voltage and resistance. if i hook the 2 3-s packs up to my cellpro charger as a 6-s pack and plug the 3-s balancing leads to the charger, will that work?

[srislash]

I do this all the time. BUT, you have to make a balance adapter to put both 3s balance leads into the one 6s on charger. You have to use the one common #1 lead for both packs.

DSCN1009.jpg

[kevinpratt823]

I do this as well, I'll post a couple pics from phone in a few. You need to pay very close attention to a few things. JST connectors are the easiest to deal with, the prongs are all the same, as in prongs 1-4 on a 3s port are the same as 1-4 on a 6s port. You can actually paralell balance (4) 3s packs on a 6s board if you force the other 3s packs into the first 4 prongs on the 4,5, and 6s ports, it's not a hard fit at all(you obviously have to make up paralell charge leads as well). So for series charging, you can plug the second pack into the last set of prongs in the 6s port, with the other 3s plugged into the 3s port, but the pack in the 3s port, HAS TO BE THE PACK WITH THE NEGATIVE LEAD GOING TO THE CHARGER. If you don't hook these up right, you will cook the balance board. I actually got some real nice balance leads like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/331139173123...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT, you still have to make sure the pack with the negative lead to charger goes in the port with the negative to prong 1. This seller has a TON of different configurations for all kinds of series and paralell charging. All of this is at your own risk, of course, but once I shorted a few balance boards I got my system down well.

[kevinpratt823]

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
First pic is series charging a pair of 3s as a 6s with a regular board, notice I removed and insulated the negative wire from the lower balance connector to avoid confusion. The pack plugged in to the top 3s port has the negative power wire to the charger, and the positive to the negative of the other pack for series connection.
Second pic shows the balance adapter I bought, charge lead arrangement is still critical. The adapter is plugged in to another set of 6s paralell adapters, I trim out the plug so I can easily fit 4 and 5s packs in, as long as the negative is all the way over on the side the arrow points to, leaving the last pi or two open.
Last pic is charging (8) 3s at once in series paralell. (4) pairs in series as 6s each, then all (4) pairs in paralell. At a total of 40 amps, (10 amps to each 6s pair), these 8 packs are charged/balanced in 1/2 hour.

Again, any of this is AT YOUR OWN RISK, just wanted to share what I have been doing.

[urbs00007]

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
First pic is series charging a pair of 3s as a 6s with a regular board, notice I removed and insulated the negative wire from the lower balance connector, otherwise it's a dead short to a positive from the one above it. The pack plugged in to the top 3s port has the negative power wire to the charger, and the positive to the negative of the other pack for series connection.
Second pic shows the balance adapter I bought, charge lead arrangement is still critical. The adapter is plugged in to another set of 6s paralell adapters, I trim out the plug so I can easily fit 4 and 5s packs in, as long as the negative is all the way over on the side the arrow points to, leaving the last pi or two open.
Last pic is charging (8) 3s at once in series paralell. (4) pairs in series as 6s each, then all (4) pairs in paralell.

Again, any of this is AT YOUR OWN RISK, just wanted to share what I have been doing.

thanks, so you remove the neg lead from the connector and just tape it to the battery wire so you can convert back to 3-s if you want?

[kevinpratt823]

thanks, so you remove the neg lead from the connector and just tape it to the battery wire so you can convert back to 3-s if you want?

I have edited the previous posts. I apologize, technically, you do not HAVE to remove the negative lead, but after cooking a balance board or two because I got plugs mixed up, I pulled the negatives to simplify it for myself and limit confusion.

[kevinpratt823]

This is what I meant about using the 6s parallel lead for 4s

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[urbs00007]

This is what I meant about using the 6s parallel lead for 4s

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

now I'm confused. in earlier picture you showed one the neg leads removed from connector. in last picture you show both neg leads in connectors. can you explain why?

[kevinpratt823]

now I'm confused. in earlier picture you showed one the neg leads removed from connector. in last picture you show both neg leads in connectors. can you explain why?

Earlier picture was (2)-3s packs in series as a 6s. This picture was 4s packs in parallel, charging as 4s. I just showed the last pic because I mentioned it in the earlier post. In series you are stringing the cells together end to end, in parallel you are stacking them and making all the cells common. If you only care about series charging your single pair of 3s then disregard that pic, but I would suggest you get a good understanding of how both work, and the difference between the two.

I apologize, technically, you don't have to remove the negative on the balance lead if you configure things properly, but I do it to help avoid a mixup between the one that goes in the 3s port(with negative power lead to charger) when I connect them.

FWIW, if you look closely at the series balance connector in the middle of the three pics I posted earlier, you may notice that the negative coming from the 3s adapter plug on the right(soldered directly on to the same spot as the negative power lead inside the pack) goes directly into the same pin as the last/4th wire from the plug on the left(which is soldered directly to the same spot as the positive in that pack, which is now plugged in to the negative of the previous pack anyway). I remove the negative wire on one pack to avoid confusion on which one goes in the 3s port so I don't mix them up , then I identify the positive charge lead from the other pack with black tape or something so I know that that is the lead that has to make the series connection to the negative of the other pack

[kevinpratt823]

I apologize if I have overcomplicated this for you, feel free to disregard all I said and seek a more simple explanation, just trying to help you understand and maybe avoid any shorts.

[urbs00007]

I apologize if I have overcomplicated this for you, feel free to disregard all I said and seek a more simple explanation, just trying to help you understand and maybe avoid any shorts.

i understand that both 3-s packs need to ground their black leads to the 6-s ground lead, right? in that middle picture, how is that accomplished? in that adapter are the ( 2) 3-s balance connector neg leads joined to each other? I'm not that good with batt connectors, so bear with me. thanks, john

[Luck as a Constant]

Why not just charge in series?
Buy a series balancing board, and charge all 4 as 3s at once?


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[urbs00007]

Why not just charge in series?
Buy a series balancing board, and charge all 4 as 3s at once?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

because i want to treat the batteries as one 6-s pack. they are taped together and i want to avoid having to disonnect power leads to charge. trying to simplify , thats all.

[Luck as a Constant]

Sorry what a meant was parallel.
Parallel charging... Sorry for the confusion there


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[kevinpratt823]

i understand that both 3-s packs need to ground their black leads to the 6-s ground lead, right? in that middle picture, how is that accomplished? in that adapter are the ( 2) 3-s balance connector neg leads joined to each other? I'm not that good with batt connectors, so bear with me. thanks, john

Bear with me whyle I type/edit a minute........No, this is kinda what I was trying to warn you against, re-read the last paragraph of my last post first, but I'll try to explain it a bit better. The pics I'm about to post are from the Revolectrix manualhttp://www.revolectrix.com/support_docs/item_1431.pdf

Now, look at it this way, the charger looks for the negative, then a node at each cells series connection, it counts from neg, to cell 1,2,3 etc., all using another wire as a reference. Each node can be either negative or positive depending on which other wire you're using as a reference. If I test across node 2 and node 3, node 2 would read as a negative, if I test across node 2 and node 1, then node 2 reads as positive, can you see that? So when you look at the 6s diagram, consider that pack A is cells 1-3, and pack B is cells 4-6, pretend you stacked another 3s diagram directly on top of this one in the same orientation, and made the series connection of pos. to neg. with the power leads, the negative for pack B on top now becomes the same wire as the pack pos. from pack A, which is represented as node 3 in the 6s diagram.

[urbs00007]

Bear with me whyle I type/edit a minute........No, this is kinda what I was trying to warn you against, re-read the last paragraph of my last post first, but I'll try to explain it a bit better. The pics I'm about to post are from the Revolectrix manualhttp://www.revolectrix.com/support_docs/item_1431.pdf

Now, look at it this way, the charger looks for the negative, then a node at each cells series connection, it counts from neg, to cell 1,2,3 etc., all using another wire as a reference. Each node can be either negative or positive depending on which other wire you're using as a reference. If I test across node 2 and node 3, node 2 would read as a negative, if I test across node 2 and node 1, then node 2 reads as positive, can you see that? So when you look at the 6s diagram, consider that pack A is cells 1-3, and pack B is cells 4-6, the single wire shown as node 3 needs to be the same wire that would have been the negative for pack B

i ordered 2 balancing leads from ebay. (2) 3-s to (1) 6s. can i just plug my batteries into these adapters/

[kevinpratt823]

Yes, but like I said, pay close attention to my middle pic above. Notice the magic marker on the left 3s plug, indicating that is where the negative balance lead goes from the pack that has the negative lead going to the charger. I would suggest that once you have them together like this, you keep them together, and maybe pull the negative balance lead from the other like I did to avoid confusion. You can't just make the series connection randomly then just plug the balance connectors in either way, one dictates the other. Just use that picture as a reference, paying close attention to the orientation of the plugs, and the fact that the series connection is made with the pos from the left pack and neg of right pack.

[urbs00007]

Yes, but like I said, pay close attention to my middle pic above. Notice the magic marker on the left 3s plug, indicating that is where the negative balance lead goes from the pack that has the negative lead going to the charger. I would suggest that once you have them together like this, you keep them together, and maybe pull the negative balance lead from the other like I did to avoid confusion. You can't just make the series connection randomly then just plug the balance connectors in either way, one dictates the other. Just use that picture as a reference, paying close attention to the orientation of the plugs, and the fact that the series connection is made with the pos from the left pack and neg of right pack.

ok, i understand the orientation of the neg balance lead to battery neg . just wondering why the neg balance lead on the pos battery doesnt need to be connected to anything.

[kevinpratt823]

ok, i understand the orientation of the neg balance lead to battery neg . just wondering why the neg balance lead on the pos battery doesnt need to be connected to anything.

Because inside the battery it is connected to the negative power lead, which you now connected to the positive power lead of the other pack, which already has a lead going to the balance board via the 4th prong of that balance plug. Look at the two diagrams I gave you above. A 3s balance plug has 4 wires on it, a 6s balance plug has 7 wires on it, you only need 7 wires to balance a 6s, like I said earlier, study the diagrams and imagine placing another 3s diagram on top of the one shown, and connect them together, 2 wires become the same. When you connect the pos/neg to make the series connection, it is the same as the soldered link you would have inside a 6s, which would have one wire coming off it. When you make that series connection, the last balance wire of pack A and the first balance wire of pack B are now both connected to the same point on the split 6s pack, between cells 3 and 4.........I'm not sure how else to explain it, you're just going to have to go back and read what I have said a few times and look at the diagrams. 4+4=8, 6s only needs 7, 2 of the wires are now connected to the same point on the batteries via the series connection between the batteries, that is why they come together on the 6s plug of the adapter anyway, because the charger is only looking for that point on one pin.

Note-Not sure if you picked up on it, but one of the diagram pics I had posted was actually a 7s, I just edited it and put the 6s pic up.Disregard where it says 2s pack, or 6s pack in the pics, those were for the diagrams below that.

[urbs00007]

Because inside the battery it is connected to the negative power lead, which you now connected to the positive power lead of the other pack, which already has a lead going to the balance board via the 4th prong of that balance plug. Look at the two diagrams I gave you above. A 3s balance plug has 4 wires on it, a 6s balance plug has 7 wires on it, you only need 7 wires to balance a 6s, like I said earlier, study the diagrams and imagine placing another 3s diagram on top of the one shown, and connect them together, 2 wires become the same. When you connect the pos/neg to make the series connection, it is the same as the soldered link you would have inside a 6s, which would have one wire coming off it. When you make that series connection, the last balance wire of pack A and the first balance wire of pack B are now both connected to the same point on the split 6s pack, between cells 3 and 4.........I'm not sure how else to explain it, you're just going to have to go back and read what I have said a few times and look at the diagrams. 4+4=8, 6s only needs 7, 2 of the wires are now connected to the same point on the batteries via the series connection between the batteries, that is why they come together on the 6s plug of the adapter anyway, because the charger is only looking for that point on one pin.

Note-Not sure if you picked up on it, but one of the diagram pics I had posted was actually a 7s, I just edited it and put the 6s pic up.Disregard where it says 2s pack, or 6s pack in the pics, those were for the diagrams below that.

got it, thanks

[kevinpratt823]

If you look at the pic of the adapter that Srislash posted, you will see that he accomplishes the same thing, his second 3s plug doesn't even have a wire going to the 6s plug.
Again, some other brands are wired differently, like Thunderpower, so it's a little different there, this is for JST.

[urbs00007]

If you look at the pic of the adapter that Srislash posted, you will see that he accomplishes the same thing, his second 3s plug doesn't even have a wire going to the 6s plug.
Again, some other brands are wired differently, like Thunderpower, so it's a little different there, this is for JST.

has anybody noticed a power loss when using (2) 3s in series vs. (1) 6-s pack?

[Luck as a Constant]

I dunno how charging multiple packs gets any easier than just buying one of these
http://www.progressiverc.com/univers...or-jst-xh.html

It does the same thing in an easier to understand way IMO


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[kevinpratt823]

There are a few reasons I series charge my 3s as 6s, and use the individual balance harnesses.

1) I can charge all (8) 3s at once when I pair them up, that board only does 6
2) They are already paired up to run as 6s
3) Say my charger puts out 20 amps, in paralell that's 10 amps per pack for the pair, in series it's all 20 amps to the same pair of packs, half the charge time.
4)The balance connections on the board don't leave you with much wire to work with, kinda leaves your packs all sprawled out around the board, that is why I prefer the harnesses over the board, makes things much less awkward for me.