The NEW Proboat motor and ESC?

[TheShaughnessy]

This motor is now offered in the v3 blackjack 29. I currently have one in my possession and am curious if its going to be a legal motor for 2015. The bullets are nice quality, good fit with my current 5.5 which are the am500 (something like that.) Hk variety or the venom 5.5. Comes with water jacket, competitive pricing.

[Brushless55]

This motor is now offered in the v3 blackjack 29. I currently have one in my possession and am curious if its going to be a legal motor for 2015. The bullets are nice quality, good fit with my current 5.5 which are the am500 (something like that.) Hk variety or the venom 5.5. Comes with water jacket, competitive pricing.

me to

[TheShaughnessy]

Seems like no one wants to touch this. Looks like it may break the 5% clause ? It is offered in an rtr hull where over 100 units will be produced though. Up to the CD? I'll just run it and wait for the protest.

[montymike]

This boat with the Bj29v3 with its upgraded hull and hardware is heavier then the V1 hull so I suspect though I have not ran it yet got it in Dec.could use the boost. The extra of will give it.

[T.S.Davis]

Seems like no one wants to touch this.

Cuz nobody knows I suspect.

[Darin Jordan]

Cuz nobody knows I suspect.

iii) In addition, the CD has the discretion to allow the following:

(a) An aftermarket motor that is a re-labeled and exact copy of any
approved motor.
(b) Any generational change of an approved motor, or a motor that
is used in a Ready To Run (RTR) offering from a manufacturer
that produces over 100 units of said offering, as long as there is
no more than a 5% increase in any of the following
manufacturers specifications as compared to any single
approved motor: Kv, maximum constant amperage rating,
mass, and MSRP.
(c) The race flyer shall list additional allowed motors for the event

By my reading of the rules, if the motor isn't on the "approved" list of motors, then it must meet A, B, OR C...

The new Dynamite motors in the Pro Boat RTRs are new, and clearly don't meet "A".

The new Dynamite motors in the Pro Boat RTRs are also 61mm long, which exceeds the 5% rule for length, so they also don't meet "B".

Now, while I believe the INTENT was for "C" to be more of a "note" in regards to A and B, it READs as the third bullet; A third criteria to consider for allowance. As such, the CD of whatever "event" you are running must print a flyer identifying any additional motor allowances.

So, if your club has an upcoming race, and in the announcement (E-mail, etc.) for the race lists the additional motor allowances, then you would be allowed to run these, per the NAMBA rules as they are written.

[T.S.Davis]

That sounds right Darin.

C should have read "if a motor is allowed in accordance with a. or b. it shall be indicated on the race flyer" or something to that effect.

50% of the motors on the current list aren't available any more. There really are no provisions for how to be added to the "list". Just how to handle a generation change or a clone like the Himax.

Wonder if Dave has 2 pennies on this.

[Brushless55]

iii) In addition, the CD has the discretion to allow the following:

(a) An aftermarket motor that is a re-labeled and exact copy of any
approved motor.
(b) Any generational change of an approved motor, or a motor that
is used in a Ready To Run (RTR) offering from a manufacturer
that produces over 100 units of said offering, as long as there is
no more than a 5% increase in any of the following
manufacturers specifications as compared to any single
approved motor: Kv, maximum constant amperage rating,
mass, and MSRP.
(c) The race flyer shall list additional allowed motors for the event

By my reading of the rules, if the motor isn't on the "approved" list of motors, then it must meet A, B, OR C...

The new Dynamite motors in the Pro Boat RTRs are new, and clearly don't meet "A".

The new Dynamite motors in the Pro Boat RTRs are also 61mm long, which exceeds the 5% rule for length, so they also don't meet "B".

Now, while I believe the INTENT was for "C" to be more of a "note" in regards to A and B, it READs as the third bullet; A third criteria to consider for allowance. As such, the CD of whatever "event" you are running must print a flyer identifying any additional motor allowances.

So, if your club has an upcoming race, and in the announcement (E-mail, etc.) for the race lists the additional motor allowances, then you would be allowed to run these, per the NAMBA rules as they are written.

I bet we in NAMBA20 would allow these new motors...

[T.S.Davis]

We probably will too. Just a prediction though.

Motivation will be the "buy it race it angle".

[Darin Jordan]

PSFEMBC (NAMBA D8) has already voted to allow them.

I abstained from that vote, by the way.

[TheShaughnessy]

I guess Ill put it in a boat before I worry about it

[Darin Jordan]

Do NOT prop it like a "2030".... those are NOT 2000kv... the Dynamite is. You'll want to prop accordingly.

[TheShaughnessy]

I'll keep that in mind. I'll start with a 40x53. Can always use it for the jet boat build,

[Brushless55]

Do NOT prop it like a "2030".... those are NOT 2000kv... the Dynamite is. You'll want to prop accordingly.

so this PB motor has "maybe" 7 to 8% more rpms vs the AQ2030
and my AQ2030 powered
PSpec Mono runs 95-100* after a 6 lap heat
PSpec OPC runs 90-95* after a 6 lap heat
PSpec Rigger runs 110-115* after a 6 lap heat
LSH runs 105-110* after a 6 lap heat

that this new PB motor cannot swing those current props without heating up to burn notice ??
I would think that a new motor design would be more powerful with a little more rpms

[Darin Jordan]

Who said anything about a "new motor design"?

It's just another rebranded motor that Dynamite decided would suit their RTR needs, being supplied by the lowest bidder.

You go up in KV, you generally lose torque, given the same basic physical size, so you prop down a bit and get your speed from prop speed rather than pitch. Pretty healthy difference in overall RPM between 1865kv and 2000kv on 4S.

[Brushless55]

Who said anything about a "new motor design"?

It's just another rebranded motor that Dynamite decided would suit their RTR needs, being supplied by the lowest bidder.

You go up in KV, you generally lose torque, given the same basic physical size, so you prop down a bit and get your speed from prop speed rather than pitch. Pretty healthy difference in overall RPM between 1865kv and 2000kv on 4S.

IMO it's only healthy if you can use the same props otherwise you need to prop down and only maybe get to the original speeds of the AQ2030 setups being its only maybe 7% faster in kv with less torque
in other words, if I cannot utilize the little bit of extra rpms then I don't think it would be a healthy difference

is this the same motor as in the Kyosho boat ?

think I will hold off and see how others do with this motor before ruling on it for NAMBA20

[Doug Smock]

[TheShaughnessy]

Healthy meaning significant? Some boats run better with smaller props

[Brushless55]

Healthy meaning significant? Some boats run better with smaller props

Not my setups if I have to prop down ... with the AQ2030 I could prop up but that is not needed because they run so well now

[TheShaughnessy]

I would say don't get this motor then. I wanted to check it out, got a good deal, had to have it. I dont mind be a test dummy at times.

[Brushless55]

I would say don't get this motor then. I wanted to check it out, got a good deal, had to have it. I dont mind be a test dummy at times.

Let us know how things go Michael
I don't see any reason I couldn't use the same props on my boats now and just swap out the AQ2030 with this PB2k

[montymike]

First instinct is to prop up, so go to a 40-38 on my boat do I go 2 mm on strut from flat to make up for smaller prop size? On my new
Bj. 29

[Fluid]

...I don't see any reason I couldn't use the same props on my boats now and just swap out the AQ2030 with this PB2k

Really? How about less torque to swing the same prop? When the FE30 first came out several of us tried different motors to see which worked best. We could not get the speeds we wanted with the 1800 motors even with large props. We put in the 2030 motors, propped down and went 2-4 mph faster.....




.

[Darin Jordan]

Let us know how things go Michael
I don't see any reason I couldn't use the same props on my boats now and just swap out the AQ2030 with this PB2k

With all due respect, you are making comments as if you don't truly understand how electric motors actually work. I've followed your previous conversations so I think I know better than that. Not sure where the disconnect here is coming from?

I'll say it again... The AQ "2030" is NOT a 2030KV motor... it's 1865 at best. I recall some of the original ones testing to 1930KV, but I've NEVER seen one test over that... EVER, and I've tested a LOT of them. ALL of the recent ones I've tested are in the 1865KV range.

You have ONLY been able to get away with running the ridiculous sized props that people seem to run with these (X447, etc) BECAUSE these ARE NOT 2000KV motors! You are propping for a motor significantly less than that.

If you don't think it's significant, do some math:

1865KV * 14.8 = 27602
2000KV * 14.8 = 29600

That's 1998 MORE RPM...

Seriously trying to suggest that a prop change isn't in order??

I really, REALLY, don't think many of you put enough emphasis on just HOW important that little wheel on the back of the boat really is. NOT just in speed, but in exit speeds, cornering speeds, HANDLING, etc.

[T.S.Davis]

We all know that with the 2030, heat is the devil.

Are these about the same? Can they handle more/less heat? Does anyone really know?

[Fluid]

FWIW, using motor temperature to determine a safe amp draw has little value without context. Last summer, with ambient temps in the low 100s and water temps around 90*F, my motors (Limited and Open) would come back after 6 laps around 130*F. No problem, this is well below the point of motor damage. A couple weeks ago, with both ambient and water temps in the 50s, the same boats had motor temps below 95*F after six laps. No changes other than the date. A setup which is fine in the winter or in colder climates may burn up on a hot summer day on a warm pond. Too, the time between hitting the beach and measuring the temps matters. The ESC in particular can cool off quickly, after five minutes it can be 50* cooler than immediately after shutting down.



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[Brushless55]

so this PB motor has "maybe" 7 to 8% more rpms vs the AQ2030
and my AQ2030 powered
PSpec Mono runs 95-100* after a 6 lap heat
PSpec OPC runs 90-95* after a 6 lap heat
PSpec Rigger runs 110-115* after a 6 lap heat
LSH runs 105-110* after a 6 lap heat

that this new PB motor cannot swing those current props without heating up to burn notice ??
I would think that a new motor design (or relabeled) would be more powerful with a little more rpms

We all know that with the 2030, heat is the devil.

Are these about the same? Can they handle more/less heat? Does anyone really know?

That's my point all together
I'm the one who brought FE to District 20 and we are always looking for new things
and as you can see from my setups and if you see them run you would understand I know what I'm doing
I just cannot drive worth a damn

at best the PB2K motor is only 7% faster in rpms and if it cannot swing my setups now without burning up, then ..... ....... .......

[montymike]

So Darin , on bj. 29 v3 stock prop and smaller ?

[Darin Jordan]

So Darin , on bj. 29 v3 stock prop and smaller ?

No... the boat was horribly under-propped with the 1800KV motor... That's why you could run a BJ29 around until battery cutoff, in stock trim on 4S, without burning things up. Exactly the way a RTR should be. :)

[Darin Jordan]

at best the PB2K motor is only 7% faster in rpms and if it cannot swing my setups now without burning up, then ..... ....... .......

Whatever you say...