Save weight?

[vertman]

how important is the battery weight in a Aquacraft revolt 30?

would i be better off buying smaller mah batteries to save weight or just buy a bigger battery for longer run time?

in other words is the weight savings significant to speed/performance or is the diff between the weight of a 2000 mah and 4000 mah battery not that big a deal?

thanks.

[kfxguy]

You can get 5000mah and be plenty fine.

[tlandauer]

2000 mah is too low for boating, regardless if there is any advantages in weight saving.
I prefer no lower than 5000mah. Weight can be your friend in certain conditions of the water. If you are talking about running 4s2p with a total of 10,000 mah, then I would say that the additional of a 4s battery rated at 5000mah might make a difference in racing. In any case, to save a few ounces of weight and go down to 2000mah is NOT a route that I will go.
With only 2000 mah, it is not just run time that will suffer, also the life of the batteries will suffer as well, they will heat up faster and will do a number on your ESC as well. Get batteries with Constant Discharge rate no less than 40C. Some prefer even higher, but around 40C is a good bench mark IMO.

[kfxguy]

2000 mah is too low for boating, regardless if there is any advantages in weight saving.
I prefer no lower than 5000mah. Weight can be your friend in certain conditions of the water. If you are talking about running 4s2p with a total of 10,000 mah, then I would say that the additional of a 4s battery rated at 5000mah might make a difference in racing. In any case, to save a few ounces of weight and go down to 2000mah is NOT a route that I will go.
With only 2000 mah, it is not just run time that will suffer, also the life of the batteries will suffer as well, they will heat up faster and will do a number on your ESC as well. Get batteries with Constant Discharge rate no less than 40C. Some prefer even higher, but around 40C is a good bench mark IMO.

While I agree 110% with the above, you better be careful with the C rating statement because the Internet correctors with jump in...nah..you know what...I don't care what they say, I'll say it again: I always prefer 50c (no less that 40c for sure) or higher. You can get away with less if you have good quality batteries but I'd rather over do it on batteries. There's alot of stuff you can get away with if you know what your doing....but im not going to recommend to someone something that I can get away with if I don't know their experience. So I'd rather recommend something that the average non experienced person will be safe with.

[tlandauer]

Travis, I agree with you 110% as well.
You have in a relative shot time gained so much experience and recognition and it would be actually a surprise to me if you would go anything below 50C rating. I know your recommendation was based on that and therefore I did not have a problem with your statement.
At my level I will not go below 40C, and yes, I realize people get away with even lower ratings, therefore I was more comfortable to use "benchmark" as the key word.

[kfxguy]

Travis, I agree with you 110% as well.
You have in a relative shot time gained so much experience and recognition and it would be actually a surprise to me if you would go anything below 50C rating. I know your recommendation was based on that and therefore I did not have a problem with your statement.
At my level I will not go below 40C, and yes, I realize people get away with even lower ratings, therefore I was more comfortable to use "benchmark" as the key word.

I'm glad that at least someone didn't think I was crazy for saying that! Lol

[Chilli]

The Revolt has plenty of power and the weight of higher capacity packs is actually helpful in keeping your boat right side up in the chop. In addition you well get better run times, less ripple current and your packs will run cooler so if you take good care of them they will last longer.

As for C Ratings, same old story. Higher is better but there is no standard for how the manufactures come up with their numbers. So do your homework and spend a little extra on quality packs. Not the packs with the highest C rating.

[Doug Smock]

The Revolt has plenty of power and the weight of higher capacity packs will not only give you longer run times, they will run cooler and help keep your boat right side up in the chop.

As for C Ratings, same old story. Higher is better but there is no standard for how the manufactures come up with their numbers. So do your homework and spend a little extra on quality packs. Not the packs with the highest C rating.

Exactly, if we all went by C ratings we'd be running MAX AMPS.

[Chilli]

I didn't want to mention names. LOL

[kfxguy]

Exactly, if we all went by C ratings we'd be running MAX AMPS.

Lmao! When I read the above statement I immediately thought of maxx amps and how weak they are. Lmao

[Doug Smock]

I didn't want to mention names. LOL

Then I shouldn't mention that I have some 4+ year old Hyperion 5500 35c cells that are still rockin?
Also running some 5000, 45c cells that will put a spanking on the 6000, 65c cells that were supposed to be the bomb.

[kfxguy]

Then I shouldn't mention that I have some 4+ year old Hyperion 5500 35c cells that are still rockin?
Also running some 5000, 45c cells that will put a spanking on the 6000, 65c cells that were supposed to be the bomb.

I knew nothing about maxx amps when I first ran them. I thought my gps was wrong when they came back in at the slowest speed out of all the batts tested. Not sure what your paying so much money for lmao!

[NativePaul]

I guess I will be "that guy".

2000 mah is too low for boating, regardless if there is any advantages in weight saving.

2000mAh may be too little for the revolt saying that it is too low for boating is a gross overgeneralisation. It is more than ample for a lot of smaller boats, my buddies and I have raced small boats for years on 1500-1800 LiPo and before that 1000-1500 Nimh and 500 NiCd. I am in my 4th year of racing on the same 1800mAh pack and we race for 5-6 minutes, +mill, +in lap, so neither duration or longevity are suffering too badly.

I have been boating on LiPo since 6c labelled (4c actual) cells were the best available, and I still race 2 of my boats competitively on 20c labelled (14c actual) cells. Having said that it is possible to boat on low C cells, I will say that I am totally with you on this one. If you are not limited by rules I would certainly advise people to go for the highest (actual) C rate they can reasonably afford, as the voltage gain outweighs the weight gain thus performance will improve over low C cells in any boat, and the higher C cells tend to be more robust too. If I didn't need light cells to fit racing rules I would switch from my low C cells to high C cells in a heartbeat.

[kfxguy]

I guess I will be "that guy".

2000mAh may be too little for the revolt saying that it is too low for boating is a gross overgeneralisation. It is more than ample for a lot of smaller boats, my buddies and I have raced small boats for years on 1500-1800 LiPo and before that 1000-1500 Nimh and 500 NiCd. I am in my 4th year of racing on the same 1800mAh pack and we race for 5-6 minutes, +mill, +in lap, so neither duration or longevity are suffering too badly.

I have been boating on LiPo since 6c labelled (4c actual) cells were the best available, and I still race 2 of my boats competitively on 20c labelled (14c actual) cells. Having said that it is possible to boat on low C cells, I will say that I am totally with you on this one. If you are not limited by rules I would certainly advise people to go for the highest (actual) C rate they can reasonably afford, as the voltage gain outweighs the weight gain thus performance will improve over low C cells in any boat, and the higher C cells tend to be more robust too. If I didn't need light cells to fit racing rules I would switch from my low C cells to high C cells in a heartbeat.

I was reading this and was about to pitch a fit...but toward the end, you redeemed yourself lol. I think that tlandauer meant was in this size boat. He forgot to put the exclusion list and every little exception.....because I have a blackjack 9 and it has a 450mah 20c battery and it works fine. MOST of the time we are referring in general. ...larger or more "normal" size boats. To be specifically specific (lol) I'll say in the neighborhood of 29" and up is when the battery capacity, c rating etc really come into play. Man I could go on with this all night...and add exceptions and whatnot....but im not going to. Let's just say, (like above stated) buy the highest quality (revolectrix) battery your budget will allow (besides maxx amps) and you should be fine. Now go get some boats wet!

[Doug Smock]

buy the highest quality (revolectrix) battery your budget will allow

How many cycles do you have on those now? LOL

[keithbradley]

How many cycles do you have on those now? LOL

I agree with where you're going here Doug, with one caveat: By the time you have put 200 cycles on a lipo and found it to be the cat's meow of the lipo world, you're often not going to be getting the same thing when you buy that brand again. This makes it pretty near impossible to "prove" that the latest and greatest is indeed the greatest. All we can go by is the info we have.

I don't think best performing and longest life span are synonymous either.

What do YOU think is the best lipo you can buy today?

[tlandauer]

@ NativePaul,
Well, I am reading your reply with a big smile... I am certainly glad that you decided to be "that guy"...
I AGREE WITH YOU 110% AS WELL, it was very poor choice of wording on my part! I own just about the entire line of stock that MinicatRacingUSA carries and the batteries i use are between 1900-2300mah, C ratings are no higher than 25---that , by the way, was an advisory posted on their site a few years ago, i don't know if it still is. They warned that too high ( 30C and above for example) would actually damage their ESC, of course, there was a big debate, but Jim Slaughter stood by his advisory, if he reads this, he may be able to chime in...
So yes, I have used these batteries to my greatest satisfaction. They are FlightPower batteries sold on TowerHobbies, they are 4 years old and still going strong.
Back to the topic, I was , as it is evident, only thinking the boat under discussion.
There have been a lot of debate as to what is a good starting point for C rating. My suggestion of 40C was based on something I would buy with a decent amount of budget to invest in batteries so the OP can use them perhaps in a more powerful boat than the Revolt down the road. Aren't we all going for faster and more powerful all the time? Simple as that.
I have said this before and will say again, this is a great forum, this kind of correction should be encouraged and anticipated, without these "That guy" mentality, misinformation goes a long way to confuse new comers.
Chalk it up one for internet real time communications!
And last but not least, thank you, NativePaul! I have always read your post with respect and gratitude.

[rickwess]

I ran a ThunderPower 4400mah 45C 4s in my Revolt with the 1800kv motor and as big as a m545 prop. Speed was just over 50mph. The batteries came back fairly warm after 5mins runs. I personally wouldn't go any lower than 45C with that type of set-up.

[Doug Smock]

I agree with where you're going here Doug, with one caveat: By the time you have put 200 cycles on a lipo and found it to be the cat's meow of the lipo world, you're often not going to be getting the same thing when you buy that brand again. This makes it pretty near impossible to "prove" that the latest and greatest is indeed the greatest. All we can go by is the info we have.

I don't think best performing and longest life span are synonymous either.

What do YOU think is the best lipo you can buy today?

I agree Keith and that's where I was going. I suspect Revo will be the same.
I don't have any idea what the best LiPo available today.
I wasted a ton of money buying into the "noise" on some batteries this year. "Noise" from some individuals I trusted. I'm just going to eat that, won't consider selling those for any price. Integrity means something to me.

Bought into the latest and greatest here recently also, only much less money involved. Can't get a email reply but man the newsletters keep arriving. Still waiting for a little service after the sale.

The bottom line seems to be this is turning into a "battery of the month game". And all the "noise" on the internet about batteries is just that, "noise".
I hope one of the manufactures gets it all together, and keeps it that way. I'm not going to play the 'battery of the month game".


D.

[keithbradley]

I agree Keith and that's where I was going. I suspect Revo will be the same.
I don't have any idea what the best LiPo available today.
I wasted a ton of money buying into the "noise" on some batteries this year. "Noise" from some individuals I trusted. I'm just going to eat that, won't consider selling those for any price. Integrity means something to me.

Bought into the latest and greatest here recently also, only much less money involved. Can't get a email reply but man the newsletters keep arriving. Still waiting for a little service after the sale.

The bottom line seems to be this is turning into a "battery of the month game". And all the "noise" on the internet about batteries is just that, "noise".
I hope one of the manufactures gets it all together, and keeps it that way. I'm not going to play the 'battery of the month game".


D.

The one good thing is that regardless of all the false claims, gimmicks, and BS ratings (Those who really think their lipos are 65C continuous... I have some unfortunate news for you), lipos in general have gotten better and better. There are some poor QC practices in some of these places, but the ability to provide a level of performance per buck has constantly gone up.

[NativePaul]

I ran a ThunderPower 4400mah 45C 4s in my Revolt with the 1800kv motor and as big as a m545 prop. Speed was just over 50mph. The batteries came back fairly warm after 5mins runs. I personally wouldn't go any lower than 45C with that type of set-up.

Rickwess, if you are getting 5 minute runs you cant be pulling more than 12C average from your cells, with 4400mAh that is no more than 50A average current even if you are emptying them, all LiPos heat up far more towards the end of their discharge than they do at the start even if the load is the same. Unless you really need the runtime, not using the last 20% of your pack is recommended so your cells will run cooler and last you longer. Have you noticed how much your charger is putting back into the battery when you charge it? I think that if you set your timer to 4 minutes instead of 5, your cells would run cooler, last you longer and you would not think they have a marginal C rate.

The one good thing is that regardless of all the false claims, gimmicks, and BS ratings (Those who really think their lipos are 65C continuous... I have some unfortunate news for you), lipos in general have gotten better and better. There are some poor QC practices in some of these places, but the ability to provide a level of performance per buck has constantly gone up.

For sure Keith, the first LiPos I boated with were 1200mAh 3s, cost about £35, had to be imported from Japan and put out 2.9v/cell under load, the last ones I bought were 1500mAh 3s, cost £11, were purchased from my own country and put out 3.7v/cell under load. Much cheaper, much more convenient, and much better performance, win win win. Safer if you mistreat them too. On the downside those old cells were feather light (maybe because they had no balance connectors, so add another win).