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Thread: Using a Castle ICE Aircraft Controller in FE boats

  1. #1
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    Cool Using a Castle ICE Aircraft Controller in FE boats

    I have used Castle controllers for many years with very good success. With one exception all the ones I had trouble with experienced owner error - got soaked, over-amped in SAW racing, etc. Now that Castle has finally abandoned the marine market we can't buy one ready-made for boats. There are two options.

    First, use the ICE200 or EDGE200 aircraft controllers as is and add a small 40mm fan. I have been doing this with one ICE200 for over four years of racing and the unit is still running fine. A fellow club member has done the same with similar performance. I wired the fan leads directly to the power wires at the board....just tack solder them on, don't melt the entire solder joint. Whenever the ESC is powered up, the fan is on. This works in larger hulls with plenty of air volume like monos and larger sport hydros. I would not use it in a rigger. Here is a photo.



    Next you can add cooling plates to an ICE200 or EDGE200 Lite. This lacks the big green heatsinks and is MUCH smaller. I use aluminum extrusions with an 1/8" groove to slide over the board in contact with the FETS. I use thermally conductive grease to get a better contact with the extrusions, then "tack weld" the extrusions on with tiny drops of JB Weld. The aluminum cooling tubes are glued to the extrusions with Arctic Silver thermally conductive epoxy. This stuff isn't cheap but one set of tubes will do at least three controllers. It works best if there is a groove machined into the extrusion to give more contact area. I got my extrusions from a friend, but a club member bought similar extrusions from Home Depot. Lastly spray liberally with CorrosionX, let dry, and shrink wrap the whole thing. Here are photos of the extrusions and an assembled controller.







    This isn't for everyone, and I have heard of a couple folks who will do the conversion for you (not me!). Remember that you will lose your warranty with the water cooled version. Let me know if you have questions.


    BTW, the final photo shows the folly of following the "expert advice" that all ESC power wires have to be exactly the same length. Castle didn't think so and those who just cut the wires to be the same length outside the ESC are in for a surprise. This is not problem, as many of us have been running these controllers in SAW applications at over 40,000 rpm and there is no commutation problem. Another Internet myth shot down.


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  2. #2
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    Thank you for your time to help all fellow boaters. Castle is a quality product I was just looking today at lite 130 small and can add the cooling thanks to you!
    Mike
    Do It Like You Mean It .....or Don't Bother

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    Thanks for posting. would you mind posting a link or brand of the thermal grease your using?

    Thanks
    Mike

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    THank you. I'll look for the extrusion today but, I have other cooling plates around to modify. I could just use arctic silver epoxy on everything since warranty is void anyway.

    The Fets don't seem the same height as the grey metal bits that were originally in contact with the case. I also found the case (on the XL-2) did not fully contact all the thermal paste put down onto the pcb at the contact points on the PCB.

    The case actually contacts the grey metal parts and not the FETs.
    Nortavlag Bulc

  5. #5
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    The XL-2 comes with the caps over the PCB coated in liquid rubber. The top case touches the FETs while the bottom case only touches the grey metal on the outer edge.
    Nortavlag Bulc

  6. #6
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    Would a combo of a cooling plate on the bottom and a cooling fan on the top
    be enough to cool this ESC and not void the warranty.

  7. #7
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    Great info Jay. I've done the similar. And still have a few Castle air esc's in boats.
    Steven Vaccaro

    Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

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    Here's the link to extrusions:
    Ice/edge Lite 200
    http://www.brunnerent.com/Tools/Port...=7&strMetaTag=
    Ice/edge Lite 100
    http://www.brunnerent.com/Tools/Port...12&strMetaTag=

    The extrusions need a little modifying to work, but I've been using them on my esc's for years now.


    I use Loctite 384 high output thermal adhesive to put it all together.
    Brian "Snowman" Buaas
    Team Castle Creations
    NAMBA FE Chairman

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    Cool

    Thanks for posting the links Brian!

    I think about any mod to the controller risks voiding the warranty.

    I prefer the grease for conductance, for one reason. If the ESC does fail, it is far easier to remove and re-use the cooling plates if they are not epoxied to the FETs. The grease I use has slightly better thermal conductance than the epoxy but probably not enough to matter. I'll post a link when I get home.




    >


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluid View Post
    I prefer the grease for conductance, for one reason. If the ESC does fail, it is far easier to remove and re-use the cooling plates if they are not epoxied to the FETs. The grease I use has slightly better thermal conductance than the epoxy but probably not enough to matter. I'll post a link when I get home.
    That's a good idea to reuse the bars/plates. I would assume the grease that your using isn't electrically conductive? I would also venture to say that "wicking" the heat away is only as good as the functional surface area you get between the fets, buss board, and the inserted aluminum.

    Like a few of you, I have converted a few different Castle Controllers also. I will post some pictures of mine over the weekend. That being said, I haven't used the grease only the Arctic Silver epoxy product. What worries me most is using the version that actually contains silver particles due to it's electrical conductive properties.

    Later,
    Ball

  11. #11
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    I've got enough cooling plate material for a lot of esc's I'll never own so, I'll use the Arctic Silver Epoxy Thermal paste I have. It worked well on a SF200 -8S esc. I got a long piece from Doby that Monica shipped to him. It looked as if it was for battery coolers
    Nortavlag Bulc

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    I knew you would find a use for that Ray!

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    Thanks John

    What is the difference between these two??

    Corrosion X : http://www.corrosionxproducts.com/

    And what I have, the original from 10 years ago Corrosion Block: http://www.blockcorrosion.com/aboutus.sc
    Nortavlag Bulc

  14. #14
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    ...I haven't used the grease only the Arctic Silver epoxy product. What worries me most is using the version that actually contains silver particles due to it's electrical conductive properties....
    That is why I don't use it on the boards. The grease has low to no electrical conductance so no problem there. The epoxy Brian uses works too, just not quite as high of a thermal conductivity number as the grease has.


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  15. #15
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    Jay,

    Is there a way to waterproof the ICE 200 green heat sink version ESC as in the first pic of this thread with the fan attached.

    P.S. Where do you buy the motor mounts for the longer neu motors as seen in the first pic.

    Thanks
    Trev

  16. #16
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    1) The grease I use is called ThermalFusion 400, designed for CPUs.

    2) The best way to treat the Castles is, IMO, to spray them liberally with CorrosionX and let them dry.

    3) The mounts in the photo were purchased from SouthRiverRC - sadly no longer in business.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by racerr73 View Post
    Jay,

    Is there a way to waterproof the ICE 200 green heat sink version ESC as in the first pic of this thread with the fan attached.

    P.S. Where do you buy the motor mounts for the longer neu motors as seen in the first pic.

    Thanks
    Trev
    Mount looks like a Williams. Can no longer get them.

  18. #18
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    When I build my ICE controllers, I use a Silicone Based Conformal Coating on all the electronic parts. Seems to work fine thus far.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluid View Post
    Remember that you will lose your warranty with the water cooled version. Let me know if you have questions.
    Gentlemen...one correction to this. If you use an airplane controller in a boat application is does not matter if you water cool it or not, you WILL void your warranty. I just want to make this clear to EVERYONE. We will not warranty any air OR car ESCs used in boat applications. I am in the same "boat" as you with regard to this being a boat enthusiast myself. Unfortunately, we will not be producing any further marine controllers, and cannot offer any assistance in modification or give advice. You can do what you wish, but I need to make it clear to everyone that Castle's policy is that if you run any controller outside of its intended purpose the warranty is null and void, and you are all running at your own risk. Now, to end on a lighter note, should any of you experience a failure on your air/car unit while being used in a boat you are still welcome to send it in for non-warranty replacement. Non-warranty replacement costs can be found here. http://www.castlecreations.com/support/repairs.html

    Have fun and keep on boating!
    Joe Ford
    Product Specialist/Surface Team Manager
    Castle Creations

  20. #20
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    I have never expected warranty on an esc unless it was DOA on first power up and test before any mods. All is good.
    Nortavlag Bulc

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    Hi Joe, I have some older Castle 240 LV I wish there was some one that could repair them. Schultz still work on his old ESC. Is it possible to have some one at Castle do the same?

    I have found that the Conformal Coating needs to be reapplied every year it gets old and leaks.
    Randy
    For ABS, Fiberglass, Carbon hulls and Stainless hardware
    BBY Racing

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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyatBBY View Post
    I have found that the Conformal Coating needs to be reapplied every year it gets old and leaks.
    From heating and cooling.
    Nortavlag Bulc

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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyatBBY View Post
    Hi Joe, I have some older Castle 240 LV I wish there was some one that could repair them. Schultz still work on his old ESC. Is it possible to have some one at Castle do the same?

    I have found that the Conformal Coating needs to be reapplied every year it gets old and leaks.
    Yes, by all means send it in to us. If we can repair it, we will. If not, we'll let you know and send it back to you.
    Joe Ford
    Product Specialist/Surface Team Manager
    Castle Creations

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray schrauwen View Post
    I have never expected warranty on an esc unless it was DOA on first power up and test before any mods. All is good.
    The key there you already stated, but I must emphasize this. Do ALL testing on the bench before any mods are done and installed in the boat. Plug in to your rx, plug in your motor, plug in the battery, and pull the trigger. If it fails we will handle those under warranty. After mods, if it blows on first plug in, unfortunately it would be non-warranty.
    Joe Ford
    Product Specialist/Surface Team Manager
    Castle Creations

  25. #25
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    Thanks a lot for the clarification Joe! Yes, if you read the warranty it does state it must be used as intended.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ray schrauwen View Post
    Thanks John

    What is the difference between these two??

    Corrosion X : http://www.corrosionxproducts.com/

    And what I have, the original from 10 years ago Corrosion Block: http://www.blockcorrosion.com/aboutus.sc
    I apologize for going off topic but to answer Ray's question :

    CorrosionX HD is just a stickier/gummier version of regular CorrosionX



    Regular

    Flash Point 269.6 F deg.

    Boiling point 392 F deg.

    Dialectric strength 39,000V


    HD

    Flash Point 269.6 F deg.

    Boiling Point 410 F deg.

    Dialectric Strength 20,000V

    DSC06100.JPG
    Last edited by properchopper; 09-26-2014 at 01:58 PM.
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    Thx Tony
    Nortavlag Bulc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Ford View Post
    Yes, by all means send it in to us. If we can repair it, we will. If not, we'll let you know and send it back to you.
    Thank you Joe. I have three CC 240 LV and two older Barracuda's. I will see if I can follow the instructions. :-)

    Randy
    For ABS, Fiberglass, Carbon hulls and Stainless hardware
    BBY Racing

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyatBBY View Post
    Thank you Joe. I have three CC 240 LV and two older Barracuda's. I will see if I can follow the instructions. :-)

    We'll do our best to get them back up and running for you Randy. :) As the repair section doesn't contain any marine controllers anymore, just send them in with a hand written note stating what you have included in the package, your full name, return mailing address, email, and phone number. Also, please include a description of what happened (if you can rememember)...this will help our techs narrow down the possible issue. For example: "The boat was running and then just shut down", or "Wouldn't arm/make tones on plug in", etc. Thanks!
    Joe Ford
    Product Specialist/Surface Team Manager
    Castle Creations

  30. #30
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    Will do thanks Joe.
    Randy
    For ABS, Fiberglass, Carbon hulls and Stainless hardware
    BBY Racing

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