NAMBA P-Ltd Motor discussion

[longballlumber]

Because your boats do 21 laps per month? Plus, which generation of motor are you talking about? A motor that took Pete a couple years to injure was replaced with a motor that survived 6 runs. Pete's not doing anything crazy with his setups that I've seen. Although, without data, that might be a ridiculous statement. Someone could have slipped into his house and changed his setup between motors so that the new motor was drawing another 30 amps or something. Cuz that happens all the time.

There are entirely too many variables to answer the "WHY" in Pete's specific case. First thing I would want to see is a data log off of a run via eagle tree or Castle.

You know we did this with Tom's new cat earlier this season. Kept blowing up 2030's his new cat (his own design) using an M445. I asked him if you guys knew what kind of amp draw it's making? At that point we installed my eagle tree, on the very first run it was measuring an AVERAGE of 100 amps. Now how many motors did Tom burn up before we established there was something wrong other than the motor? More importantly how many motors across the racing community have been accused of being faulty because of this same type of unknown issue?

This is what i am talking about regarding data so we can make an informed decision on where to head next. have a COLLECTION of this data would/could help us identify and rage the motor may/may not survive in...


tom cat m445.jpg

[DPeterson]

A lot of insinuations being put out in this thread.

I might not be one of the top drivers in the country but I can put a well tuned boat on the water. Most of you have seen it at one time or another. Since P-Limited started I was able to run my Whip @ 54-55 mph and the motor would come back at 110 degrees. Even in Arizona. This would always piss Sean off. :) I could run my HOR-Pursuit 4 minutes with a trimmed 445 and the motor would come back at 90 degrees. Decided to start this year with a fresh batch of motors and now everything is 130degrees with the varnish cooking. Shame on some of you for insinuating we don't what we are doing.

And then to insinuate how a conversation with Tower Hobbies may have went. I don't call out people or companies in public so I will not go into detail. Shame on you.

The change in motor quality was in deed finally acknowledged by a member of AQ. No more needs to be said, there were changes and issues.

As I have stated there are a number of reasons our small club is going back to LSH, LSO and LS OPC. I have stated 2 of them. LSH, LSO and LS OPC were never RTR classes. These were a 1 motor class. Everyone put this motor into the hull of their choice and started tweeking props to see what we could get. In the meantime it was some good racing. Were looking forward to the prop work again. Not looking for parity or toy boat racing. We are going to push each other around the course. There, now you have a third reason. Only 9 to go.

Mike Ball - thought I read where you sold all your 2030's and went to all 1800's?

I hope you all can get your P-Limited thing figured out.

Doug

[ron1950]

not that anyone cares but I have burned up one pb 1800 in 3 years running (it seemed to burn the wires a little...I would have thought smaller gage wires woukd have fixed the problem) now then I burned up 2 pb 1500 in a modern 10th scale with a 45 mm plastic prop.....this one has me stumped as both were new and didn't last one run apeace... carry-on with the arguments ill just watch... you guys do know that no one is going to win this right? everyone will just get in there little groups and grumble until we get a few more motor choises

[Grimracer]

Doug.. I have to ask.. IF your whip was blasting out 54-55 MPH runs and the motor only coming back at 110... why is that motor not in the boat anymore?.. Truly.. why?
Seems like a killer setup to me.
You decided to start with a fresh batch of motors.. Why?
Then.. Because the new ones burned up did you contact product support and THEN put the old motors back in the boats.. what happen when you did? Did it go back to 54-55MPH and run 110deg?

Really.. I don’t know.. just seems like something is missing….
You don’t have to fill in the blanks but it could help with the discovery of what might be going on.
Grim

[D. Newland]

...
And then to insinuate how a conversation with Tower Hobbies may have went. I don't call out people or companies in public so I will not go into detail. Shame on you.

Doug

Doug, I don't see what you are getting at here. If it's something I said, please let me know.

[DPeterson]

Grim - Unlike Nitro and Gas motors that may loosen up, break in and start running better, electric motors are the opposite. Electric motors get, I'll call it tired. I could tell my Whip was slowing. Knowing it will do the 54-55 I am not satisfied with 50-52. I can also tell when my props begin to un-pitch. Currently addressing that with a heat treatment program.

Did the exact same thing when we ran the SS1's. I started each season with a new batch or when I felt the boat was slowing.

The older 2030's also had the wires entry into the cans looking a little shabby. I threw them all in the garbage. Sorry - I have the money to do that.

By the way - In the manufacturing industry we are constantly replacing electric motors. They get tired. Some of these are like 100 hp.

Carry on.

[Doby]

I get the "tired" thing that Doug is talking about. when I built my Popeye LSH last summer, I put in a trusted, several year old 2030...ran well and I used it lots of times before the NATS this year. At the Nats it seemed to be lethargic. Now, maybe the water in Michigan is more dense than in Canada, thus slowing it down.....but....

I put a brand new 2030 in about a month ago and holly hydro Batman, the boat has come back to life! BUT, it also seems to run consistently 20 deg hotter (about 130) and there is a distinct new motor smell after each run.



How long it will last???....well, we'll see....

[longballlumber]

Mike Ball - thought I read where you sold all your 2030's and went to all 1800's?

That is a true statement and I was referring to our club classes (we don't run OPC in our club, not enough boats). And the OPC has run a 2030 since putting it together. Oh, and I've never blown a motor in the OPC either.

I would also like to add, I also ran the RTR 60amp Aquacraft controllers in ALL of my P-Limited boats until this year. That being said there is only one boat I am NOT running an AQ 60amp controller. For the 2014 season in the P-Limited Sport Hydro class, I started the season with an old Castle Phoenix 180 (with the old Barracuda software install). This was an air cooled controller. For the Nationals I swap the 180 for a Castle Edge Lite 200 (converted to water cooling). I did this mostly for the data logging properties (I can share those logs if you like)

On to the motors – All of the following comments are in reference to my P-Limited Sport Hydro set up. All of my other club boats run 1800’s

The last club race of the 2012 season I put in an 1800 with an ABC H7 to see how it would fair in heat racing conditions with other boats. It went well and the setup showed some promise. For the entire 2013 season I ran with an 1800 and the boat ran very well. It was class of the field for our club races. Just before the 2013 MI Cup. I put a NEW 1800 into the boat for that race. In the third heat of that race I had a controller start to go bad. In the process of the controller going bad, it took out the motor. I didn’t realize it until the start of the 4th heat. That was my last event for 2013 as I took some time away for my own personal reasons.

On to 2013, at the first club race I was still running the 1800 motor. I quickly realized that many club members had stepped up their game and many were as fast (or faster) than my boat. At that point I decided to go back to the 2030 and an ABC H5. That is the same prop I’ve been running since you guys came out to our little pond to race, same hull for that matter too (2010?). I wanted to “see” if there was a difference in race conditions. What I noticed is the boat would carry speed through the turns a little better. So I’ve stuck with it. That is also what I ran at the nationals.

I have burnt up my share of motors and I have readily stated that. However, it’s certainly not at the same quantity and frequency the others have been describing. Heck, I’ve seen with my own eyes at a club races.


I am not sure what relevance your question directed at me has to do with the discussion. I am not sure if you’re attempting to discredit me, my posts, information or data. Are we only discussing the 2030's and the 1800's OK? I am not sure what your point was...

I will say this again. I am voicing my opinions base on the concerns of the hobby in general as a whole. As a racer, I am going to buy and use the equipment that I feel gives me an opportunity to perform at a high level. I will also say it again… I am not suggesting there isn't a reason to be concerned. However, I AM suggesting this isn't an epidemic.

If I left anything out that you would like to know, I will gladly share.

Later,
Ball

[Grimracer]

So.. there is no constant... I think we all knew that.
That SO solidifies the situation..
So you know.. In Nitro racing a big part is engine care.. we can lose a piston fit in one lean run.. if we "push" our motors they too expire early. (I always run my CMB motors fat and happy and my OS Outboard likes it its last day, I beat on that poor little motor like a red headed step child).. I pay that price in my attempt to win knowing full well.. it’s going to cost a C note.. from time to time.
See ya pond side

Grim

[DPeterson]

Dave - not you. Post 51.

Mike - It is not my intent to discredit. I was under the impression you went primarily 1800. But then you have taken a hard stance on the 2030's. I too have tried to find the sweet spot between the 1800 and the prop on various boats and just could not get there.

Sorry for the distraction.

Doug

[D. Newland]

Dave - not you. Post 51.
...

Doug

Ok, got it. FWIW, I know Shaunnessy and I really don't think his comments were about you/your situation. Maybe he can clarify, but I think he was just making a general comment.

[longballlumber]

Dave - not you. Post 51.

Mike - It is not my intent to discredit. I was under the impression you went primarily 1800. But then you have taken a hard stance on the 2030's. I too have tried to find the sweet spot between the 1800 and the prop on various boats and just could not get there.

Sorry for the distraction.

Doug

No worries... Because of the competitive nature of the P-Limited Sport Hydro class, I was looking for better/same performance out of the 1800's with less amp draw than I was seeing in the 2030's. While it worked for a little while is wasn't a slam dunk.

Terry, might be right in a way. I haven't been able to do the same amount of testing and racing for the last couple of years...

[HTVboats]

Hey Mic,
You can run any motor in the IMPBA P class.

Very sorry for the mini hijack fellas.

Good post Chili.

Doug,
I was referring to the rules for P on up in NAMBA and Q on up in IMPBA not limiting to one motor. Except in certain hull categories like scale and sport hydro. A NAMBA legal P can run twins, complying to voltage only. Explains the P Cat record 30 mph faster in NAMBA. The 10000ma limit keeps them out of heat racing not records. Your new T mono should have twins! (really bad crash potential)
Mic

[Chilli]

Easy to explain Mic. Look at the date of the record.

[T.S.Davis]

Jimmy, once you burn one or multiple motors on what you feel is your "normal" prop and you don't think you are pushing you will be less than pleased.

Dave, I ran a 447 all season on my pond. Went to Phoenix thinking don't change a thing. Poof. You said 45x55 max. Tried that and it blew the deck off the boat. Had to drop to a 42x55. I thought like Doug. Fresh motors. The difference between there and here was the water and the motor.

Keep in mind that's the boat that placed in 2 classes at the nats. It's not the build. But not with one of the only two spec motors available today.

[Doug Smock]

Doug,
I was referring to the rules for P on up in NAMBA and Q on up in IMPBA not limiting to one motor. Except in certain hull categories like scale and sport hydro. A NAMBA legal P can run twins, complying to voltage only. Explains the P Cat record 30 mph faster in NAMBA. The 10000ma limit keeps them out of heat racing not records. Your new T mono should have twins! (really bad crash potential)
Mic

Got ya.

[ray schrauwen]

After this I had a conversation with someone and we talked about the motor cooling on the HRC jackets. The elbow fittings are hands down the bottleneck for restricting flow on the water cooling system in my boat. I made some changes to them that I thought would help with flow and my NEW 2030 runs about 15-20 degrees cooler than it used to with the 45x68 (I ran the new motor on the same course with the same prop in very similar water and ambient temperature conditions before and after the elbow modifications).

I agree with the fittings but, not so much on a 2030 motor. Bigger hotter motors, yes a significant decrease but, I haven't seen a big diff with spec boats.

[D. Newland]

...Dave, I ran a 447 all season on my pond. Went to Phoenix thinking don't change a thing. Poof. You said 45x55 max. Tried that and it blew the deck off the boat. Had to drop to a 42x55. I thought like Doug. Fresh motors. The difference between there and here was the water and the motor.

Keep in mind that's the boat that placed in 2 classes at the nats. It's not the build. But not with one of the only two spec motors available today.

Do you remember the look on my face when you said it was a 447?

yes-the Nat's, we had some great racing in P-ltd mono and O/S. The point I'm trying to make is where your head is at with regards to fault. Az water. Motors lack of quality. You're probably right on some level, but there's a common denominator in there somewhere, too. Your P-Ltd mono ran like a raped ape at the Nat's. Hands down the fastest boat in that class, right?

I look at those two facts and don't have any sympathy about your motor losses. Don't feel bad, you're in good company (with Schweers). edit-that was more of a joke than a serious comment. But, I do question your argument/position.

[T.S.Davis]

Yes it was because I didn't put a 2030 back in it. Only Ty's boats have 2030 now. He's running old stock though.

My point was that the setup I ran for a season (M447) was suddenly not viable. Mike keeps saying data data data but two identical setups with two motors that are supposed to be the same and one turns 5mm less prop. How can this be?

That's like buying Z rated tires. Accept one of them doesn't measure up to the others. You race based on testing and the tire fails because it's not the same.

I'm not running crazy prop sizes. The last two 2030 I lost were running 45x55. Not unreasonable on zero drag wire drives and free running boats.

[jfrancisco892]

Jimmy, once you burn one or multiple motors on what you feel is your "normal" prop and you don't think you are pushing you will be less than pleased.

That is true. However a motor does not typically go unless it is a relatively hot setup (i.e. coming in after a run at roughly 120+ degrees fahrenheit). Whenever I put a new motor in a boat, if I can I will typically run 2-3 laps with it and do a temperature check to make sure it is in a range I am comfortable with. I think with the setups most of us run you have to expect to burn up motors. If and when that does happen you need to make a change to make sure it does not happen again. From what I have heard, it sounds like some of you are burning up motors, throwing a new one in and expecting different results. That does not make sense to me. If a motor burns up something is wrong. Like I said earlier everyone is using the same motor, so adapt to it and make changes. I just want to say I am not mad at anyone and just want to preserve this class as it is where I have the most fun in boat racing.

Jimmy

[Doug Smock]

BUT, it also seems to run consistently 20 deg hotter (about 130) and there is a distinct new motor smell after each run.

..

Ok reed dis slo is a lot ta take in.

Usen back wouds hillbillys down eer in na SE call dat a clue. Keep it up in it mighten burn ta dang boat down pert near da waterline.
Take ya a par a dikes or sumin and wack just a wee bit off a da tips a dat prop and toss er back out dare. I'm bettin you see a differsce.
Shoot, I seen some boyz take sum off ta tips jus rubin em on a rock an dey boats wer fastern an ey waz ,an ey wernt near az hot. Sumpin bout freezing up em rpm.

Tired motors, we ain nevr hured of sutch a thang. Ide think iffn ey wuz tared ya mussa werked em tu hard. But dats gust me.

Lova ya bro!! Have your buddy's flush the toilets will ya?? Our pond is low.

PS Keep ya an I out fer a bild thred. Imma bild a nu saw boat outa sum sticks and Murtices gurdal!!

[Doby]

Ok reed dis slo is a lot ta take in.

Usen back wouds hillbillys down eer in na SE call dat a clue. Keep it up in it mighten burn ta dang boat down pert near da waterline.
Take ya a par a dikes or sumin and wack just a wee bit off a da tips a dat prop and toss er back out dare. I'm bettin you see a differsce.
Shoot, I seen some boyz take sum off ta tips jus rubin em on a rock an dey boats wer fastern an ey waz ,an ey wernt near az hot. Sumpin bout freezing up em rpm.

Tired motors, we ain nevr hured of sutch a thang. Ide think iffn ey wuz tared ya mussa werked em tu hard. But dats gust me.

Lova ya bro!! Have your buddy's flush the toilets will ya?? Our pond is low.

PS Keep ya an I out fer a bild thred. Imma bild a nu saw boat outa sum sticks and Murtices gurdal!!

You iz such a tool....

So as this has turned into a he said/she said thread about Aq 2030 motors, I do believe that the thread title stated " P Limited Motor Discussion"...so lets agree to disagree on the AQ motors and move on to something more worthwhile...I hate to say it , but Petersons thread actually has more validity...lets "discuss" other potential
p limited motor options to supplement the only 2 remaining AQ options.


And Doug S...I do fully expect my knew moter to roll ovar and die if I keeps running it as is...but it will be my's fault caus I knowes better but still does it....

Hang on a minute...water coming your way...FLUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Luck as a Constant]

Ok reed dis slo is a lot ta take in.

Usen back wouds hillbillys down eer in na SE call dat a clue. Keep it up in it mighten burn ta dang boat down pert near da waterline.
Take ya a par a dikes or sumin and wack just a wee bit off a da tips a dat prop and toss er back out dare. I'm bettin you see a differsce.
Shoot, I seen some boyz take sum off ta tips jus rubin em on a rock an dey boats wer fastern an ey waz ,an ey wernt near az hot. Sumpin bout freezing up em rpm.

Tired motors, we ain nevr hured of sutch a thang. Ide think iffn ey wuz tared ya mussa werked em tu hard. But dats gust me.

Lova ya bro!! Have your buddy's flush the toilets will ya?? Our pond is low.

PS Keep ya an I out fer a bild thred. Imma bild a nu saw boat outa sum sticks and Murtices gurdal!!

Omg hahaha!
This is the best post I've ever seen :yesway:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LuckyDuc]

Oh boy. Now the thread is literally going south.

A lot of this frustration stems from lack of motor choices in the P-Ltd class. We have all grown accustom to using one manufacturer/motor. Now that there are some noticeable variations in that motor’s performance and quality from previous batches, many are looking for alternatives. Who can blame them? Nobody wants to de-tune their boats from previously successful setups. I’m as lazy about changing proven setups as the next guy. Especially, when it seems that one variable is causing the need for said change.
I do like the fact that this was written into NAMBA’s P-ltd rule set…

There MAY be other options...
NAMBA Rulebook section 28.D.1.d.iii:

iii) In addition, the CD has the discretion to allow the following:

(a) An aftermarket motor that is a re-labeled and exact copy of any
approved motor.
(b) Any generational change of an approved motor, or a motor that
is used in a Ready To Run (RTR) offering from a manufacturer
that produces over 100 units of said offering, as long as there is
no more than a 5% increase in any of the following
manufacturers specifications as compared to any single
approved motor: Kv, maximum constant amperage rating,
mass, and MSRP.
(c) The race flyer shall list additional allowed motors for the event

The above keeps with the tradition of homologation that is present in most motor sports.

I’m confident that some RTR manufacturer will step up to the plate to answer the demand. It may take a year or two though. And why can’t we have the same quality of RTR manufacturers in the boating world that we do in the car world? Team Associated comes to mind in the R/C car racing world.

What do we do in the mean time? Were the “original” LSH and LSO classes really built around one motor? I have to admit, there is some appeal to using one reasonably high quality motor for the “spec-Limited” class… Of course until that manufacturer has a supplier/quality issue as well.

I haven't given up on the P-Ltd classes, but we may see a resurgence of "open" P classes in the near future.

[Doug Smock]

You iz such a tool....

So as this has turned into a he said/she said thread about Aq 2030 motors, I do believe that the thread title stated " P Limited Motor Discussion"...so lets agree to disagree on the AQ motors and move on to something more worthwhile...I hate to say it , but Petersons thread actually has more validity...lets "discuss" other potential
p limited motor options to supplement the only 2 remaining AQ options.


And Doug S...I do fully expect my knew moter to roll ovar and die if I keeps running it as is...but it will be my's fault caus I knowes better but still does it....

Hang on a minute...water coming your way...FLUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't disagree my friend, just having fun with you as you'd expect.
I don't have any experience with the newer motors. Mine are ancient.
I'm glad you guys are looking for better options. We will follow when we need to.
Thanks fellas,

D.

[tjcast]

There are entirely too many variables to answer the "WHY" in Pete's specific case. First thing I would want to see is a data log off of a run via eagle tree or Castle.

You know we did this with Tom's new cat earlier this season. Kept blowing up 2030's his new cat (his own design) using an M445. I asked him if you guys knew what kind of amp draw it's making? At that point we installed my eagle tree, on the very first run it was measuring an AVERAGE of 100 amps. Now how many motors did Tom burn up before we established there was something wrong other than the motor? More importantly how many motors across the racing community have been accused of being faulty because of this same type of unknown issue?

This is what i am talking about regarding data so we can make an informed decision on where to head next. have a COLLECTION of this data would/could help us identify and rage the motor may/may not survive in...


tom cat m445.jpg

Mike you PROMISED to keep that picture private and never post it on the internet ! LOL.

2 motors, each time making changes in set up, same results, ok on an X642, or x440/3 but too slow. Basic boat design flaw. That boat hasn't seen water since those tests.

I understand Terry's frustrations with proven set ups baking NEW motors but I also accept the fact that WE push these motors beyond their intended limits. Some times through the grace of the FE racing Gods we get away with exceeding those limits. Some times those Gods frown down on us and say "not today". I accept the fact that I run my set ups to where I may, at any time, burn a motor. Do I enjoy finding that magic number (size prop that will toast a motor in a set up, then prop one size down), NO. Will having more motor options solve this problem, I don't know but I would like to have the option to try.

I don't think anyone is looking for more speed out of P-Limited. I would just personally like to see a few more motor options.

[Darin Jordan]

Try this on for size... THIS is how you specify power systems for a class. ALL of these motors would work for P-LTD. They are all 550-sized, 4-Pole motors of various KVs, all spec'd to be competitive with each other in their class ( ROAR 1/8th Scale):



Type Importer Manufacturer Name/Description μH* Approval Date
1:8 Associated LRP LRP Vector 8 #LRP50910 2500kv November 3, 2009
1:8 Associated LRP LRP Vector 8 #LRP50920 2800kv November 3, 2009
1:8 Associated LRP LRP53240 Dynamic 8 2200Kv June 28, 2012
1:8 Associated LRP LRP53270 Dynamic 8 2600Kv June 28, 2012
1:8 Associated LRP LRP53230 Dynamic 8 1800Kv June 28, 2012
1:8 Associated LRP LRP53235 Dynamic 8 2000Kv June 28, 2012
1:8 Associated Reedy 989 Sonic 1512 2100Kv June 28, 2012
1:8 Associated Reedy 993 Sonic 1512 5400Kv June 28, 2012
1:8 Associated Reedy 988 Sonic 1512 1800Kv June 28, 2012
1:8 Castle Creations Neu/Castle 1515 - 2200CM January 19, 2009
1:8 Castle Creations Neu/Castle 2650CMS August 18, 2009
1:8 Hobby King Hobby King Turnigy Trackstar 22409 (1900Kv); 24519 (2100Kv); 32125 (2400Kv) April 22, 2014
1:8 Hobbywing Hobbywing 2000KV 4274 #90060000 XeRUN May 1, 2011
1:8 Hobbywing Hobbywing 2250KV 4168 #90060010 XeRUN May 1, 2011
1:8 Horizon Hobby Team Orion ORI28813 Vortex MR8 August 18, 2011
1:8 Horizon Hobby Team Orion Team Orion VST@ Pro 690 4P ORI128271 (2100KV) July 3, 2013
1:8 Horizon Hobby Team Orion Team Orion VST@ Pro 690 4P ORI128272 (2500KV) July 3, 2013
1:8 Horizon Hobby Team Orion ORI28817 Vortex MR8L August 18, 2011
1:8 Horizon Hobby Team Orion ORI28812 Vortex MR8 August 18, 2011
1:8 Horizon Hobby Team Orion ORI28815 Vortex MR8L August 18, 2011
1:8 Horizon Hobby Team Orion ORI28816 Vortex MR8L August 18, 2011
1:8 Horizon Hobby Team Orion ORI28818 Vortex MR8L August 18, 2011
1:8 Horizon Hobby Team Orion Team Orion VST@ Pro 690 4P ORI128270 (1900KV) July 3, 2013
1:8 Horizon Hobby Team Orion ORI28819 Vortex MR8L August 18, 2011
1:8 Horizon Hobby Team Orion ORI28811 Vortex MR8 August 18, 2011
1:8 Horizon Hobby Team Orion ORI28814 Vortex MR8 August 18, 2011
1:8 King Golden (CEFX) Speed Passion 138806V2 SilverArrow 1/8 Version 2.0 8.5T "2400KV" December 29, 2009
1:8 King Golden (CEFX) Speed Passion Cirtix slotless sensored 8th motor 2200Kv, p/n CSL01 June 5, 2010
1:8 King Golden (CEFX) Speed Passion 138807V2 SilverArrow 1/8 Version 2.0 9.5T "2100KV" December 29, 2009
1:8 King Golden (CEFX) Speed Passion Cirtix slotless sensored 8th motor 2500Kv, p/n CSL02 June 5, 2010
1:8 King Golden (CEFX) Speed Passion 138805V2 SilverArrow 1/8 Version 2.0 7.5T "2700KV" December 29, 2009
1:8 King Golden (CEFX) Speed Passion 138803V2 SilverArrow 1/8 Version 2.0 5.5T "3900KV" December 29, 2009
1:8 King Golden (CEFX) Speed Passion 138804V2 SilverArrow 1/8 Version 2.0 6.5T "3200KV" December 29, 2009
1:8 Losi Losi LOSB9420 1300kv October 2, 2009
1:8 Losi Losi LOSB9422 2100kv October 2, 2009
1:8 Losi Losi LOSB9421 1700kv October 2, 2009
1:8 Novak Electronics Novak Electronics 3800 - 3819 Ballistic 8 August 11, 2011
1:8 Tekin Tekin Tekin Redline T8 Gen 2 - Buggy Motors July 9, 2013
1:8 Tekin Tekin #4030 T8 All Winds October 1, 2009
1:8 Tekin Tekin #4038 T8 All Winds October 1, 2009
1:8 Tekin Tekin Tekin Redline T8i - Buggy Motors July 31, 2013
1:8 Thunder Power Thunder Power TPM-18A1900 - 1900KV Thunder Power Z3R-8 October 12, 2011
1:8 Thunder Power Thunder Power TPM-18A1400 - 1400KV Thunder Power Z3R-8 October 12, 2011
1:8 Thunder Power Thunder Power TPM-18A2100 - 2100KV Thunder Power Z3R-8 October 12, 2011
1:8 Thunder Power Thunder Power TPM-18A2400 - 2400KV Thunder Power Z3R-8 October 12, 2011
1:8 Viper RC Solutions Viper RC Solutions 8VSE1800B1/ VSE-B 1800Kv Modified Motor July 15, 2011
1:8 Viper RC Solutions Viper RC Solutions 8VSE1600B1/ VSE-B 1600Kv Modified Motor July 15, 2011
1:8 Viper RC Solutions Viper RC Solutions 8VSE2450B1/ VSE-B 2450Kv Modified Motor July 15, 2011
1:8 Viper RC Solutions Viper RC Solutions 8VSE1400B1/ VSE-B 1400Kv Modified Motor July 15, 2011
1:8 Viper RC Solutions Viper RC Solutions V F - 8 (Series) March 23, 2014
1:8 Viper RC Solutions Viper RC Solutions 8VSE2050B1/ VSE-B 2050Kv Modified Motor July 15, 2011

[jfrancisco892]

Well said Mr. Castellani.

[NativePaul]

We used Mega 22/30/2 (36x53.5mm, 5 mm shaft, 25mm spaced M3 mounting, 220gram, 6 pole, European made) motors for our spec class for several years here and I never heard of one going wrong. With that said we are endurance racing and not sprint racing using the motor as a fuse.

I would have thought burning motors from time to time would be expected in the P-ltd classes as the motor is the weak link in the chain, as we expect to puff cells from time to time with them being the weak link in our chain.

The RTR motors are all cheap Chinese motors (though marked up by an additional middle man) and we all know that quality control an uniformity of production is an issue with Chinese manufacturing. Normally we take this to be the chance of getting a bad motor, but for every bad one there must be a good too, could it not be that the folk some of the folk who say they have started getting consistently bad motors now could actually be getting average motors like most people always got, but their original motor happened to be a good one and an average or bad one wont pull the same prop, you might go through a few before you get another good one that will cope if you are not willing too prop down to the motor you have.

Water can make a huge difference to amp draws. Elmbridge, one of my local lakes is very thirsty, when we get visitors for the first time they often run out of juice before the end if they are tight on the time at their home lake and don't heed the advice to prop down, I think it is about 10-15% higher average amp draw than the typical lakes I go to. It looks no different, but whatever the quality of motor involved if your motor was propped to the limit at an average lake and you tried to run the same prop at Elmbridge it would burn for sure.

[TheShaughnessy]

Correct. It was a general statement. I used to do returns for a hobby shop, sadly equipment fails and manufactures make mistakes. Tower has covered thousands in faulty equipment that I personally sent to them. Horizon sent the wrong esc for a repair, let me keep a 80 amp esc when I called for an IM 17. The point is these companies want our business, they want a solid reputation and they take pride in what they do. Why would they tell someone to kick rocks if the complaint was legit?

I'm not professing to be some sort of p ltd wizard either, just sharing personal experience.