Anyone tried these high voltage batts? 4s 15.2 v 65c

[Chrisg81983]

Chris
As far as using loose cells goes I will tell you guys something. Loose cells are spot welded and soldered together at the factory when packs are assembled. Soldered alone works fine at lower amp draw but will burn at the solder connections under high amp draw. Ask Manuel Wenny how the loose cells I sold him turned out. By the way. You bad mouth the brand and then in the next sentence tell people your going to sell the brand in loose cells. Are you for or against?

Mark

Mark

What does this have to do with me I never once asked u about breaking down cells...... Mike did and you told him that you will still warranty them if he was to brake down. Better yet you told him that a individual cell will be be better and run cooler than the rest due to the fact of not being surrounded by other cell that are hot.

So did I pull this out of thin air as well. Not really because I was with Mike when you two had the conversation.

What are you talking about me selling loose cells I am selling all the ones I got from you as they came in original form most are never even used.

[iridebikes247]

Mark a few months back I asked about buying 1s packs, then I asked about breaking them down. You said this was fine and in fact they would run cooler because not being surrounded by cells, also you said you would warranty a cell anyway if I broke it down, weird. We both know this was said. You lost my trust after getting to know me and my boat and using the information against me. Perhaps if I said I had a smaller boat things would have gone different idk.

You took the time to talk to me for awhile about batteries, I told you about my boat and amps, everything. Once I bought them though and had a problem, everything changed. I have never been deceived like this before. Extreme setup, what about the extreme ratings? Perhaps not as confident in them when the current gets high?

For anyone looking at this thread, this all happened like 6 months ago, I put it off and never told anyone because I believed maybe I got Mark on a bad day or something a lot of guys have had great success. Clearly I'm not the only one who has had problems. The packs aren't bad and for me allow me to have fun within my budget. I really didn't want to tell people about what happened but I would feel wrong if I didn't now.

[kfxguy]

This is a very interesting thread.

[Chrisg81983]

First, no. That's not at all a Monopoly Mark. Offering a product that performs better than others is not a Monopoly. That's the most ridiculous and misguided definition of a Monopoly I've ever heard. The only thing in this thread that even resembles Monopoly and the practices of businesses that seek to monopolize would be the notion that you think any battery that outperforms a dinogy should be banned.

This is so true it's like he is a ghost policing threads and soon as someone mentions " battery " he comes running screaming mine are better !!!!!!! It's like nobody is allowed to have a discussion without him coming along trying to change the whole tone and manipulate the outcome of the thread.


this is the stuff I picked up on overtime and was wondering if I was the only one that noticed it and it's getting quite annoying now and I get that this is his living but what's a sport without competition. Ummmmmmm an Monopoly

[Luck as a Constant]

I'm glad I'm a sport boater.


Mark you need to educate yourself on the differences between there, their, and they're.

[Doug Smock]

This is starting to turn into a bash thread. Please keep her on an even keel or we'll pull the plug on it fellas.

Consider checking yourself Dana

Thanks guys,

[Luck as a Constant]

Check


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[keithbradley]

This is going to get a bit redundant if we don't get the personal stuff out of here... "what's right is right" doesn't always appeal to everyone, so I guess we'll leave it up to the powers that be in NAMBA to decide IF THE STICKER ON HV LIPOS is legal or not. Meanwhile guys, follow rules and practice good sportsmanship. Whatever you're running, don't charge your lipos over the agreed upon voltage of 4.2v/cell when racing in sanctioned events.

We had a short discussion on KBB last January that included Mark F and John Grzan from Revolectrix. It was clear at that time that John was again ahead of the pack (not the first time), and he gave us a bit of a forecast into the future. He said we can expect 4.27v now, 4.35v by the end of the year, and 4.6v/cell by next year. This means that simple "maximum voltage allowed" rules and voltage checks before record runs are eventually inevitable if not already in place. IMPBA recently changed the rules for FE boats and are ahead of the curve on this one.
John also said that because the machinery required to make these is different, other factories like the ones that makes Dinogy or Thunder Power lipos wouldn't have this technology for another couple years. To me, this means one of two things about these Turnigy lipos:
1) They are capitalizing off of the Revo buzz and selling something that really isn't meant to be charged this high
or
2) The factory that John trusted to do this step for him is less than loyal and sold his method to someone else.

Either way, I would rather support the innovator who is trying to move FE ahead instead of the copycat. If you buy HV lipos, I recommend buying them from John not HK. Not only would I trust that they are better matched cells, but I would rather contribute to financing someone who is researching and innovating products that will better our experience in the future.

[Brushless55]

This is going to get a bit redundant if we don't get the personal stuff out of here... "what's right is right" doesn't always appeal to everyone, so I guess we'll leave it up to the powers that be in NAMBA to decide IF THE STICKER ON HV LIPOS is legal or not. Meanwhile guys, follow rules and practice good sportsmanship. Whatever you're running, don't charge your lipos over the agreed upon voltage of 4.2v/cell when racing in sanctioned events.

We had a short discussion on KBB last January that included Mark F and John Grzan from Revolectrix. It was clear at that time that John was again ahead of the pack (not the first time), and he gave us a bit of a forecast into the future. He said we can expect 4.27v now, 4.35v by the end of the year, and 4.6v/cell by next year. This means that simple "maximum voltage allowed" rules and voltage checks before record runs are eventually inevitable if not already in place. IMPBA recently changed the rules for FE boats and are ahead of the curve on this one.
John also said that because the machinery required to make these is different, other factories like the ones that makes Dinogy or Thunder Power lipos wouldn't have this technology for another couple years. To me, this means one of two things about these Turnigy lipos:
1) They are capitalizing off of the Revo buzz and selling something that really isn't meant to be charged this high
or
2) The factory that John trusted to do this step for him is less than loyal and sold his method to someone else.

Either way, I would rather support the innovator who is trying to move FE ahead instead of the copycat. If you buy HV lipos, I recommend buying them from John not HK. Not only would I trust that they are better matched cells, but I would rather contribute to financing someone who is researching and innovating products that will better our experience in the future.

I need to support this guy and buy a few of his packs

[jkr]

I would like to see the Msguy charge his best tested packs @ 4.30v and see the results on high amp application.

[MarkF]

Guys

I never said you couldn't use 1s cells. I myself have taking packs apart that had a damaged cell in them and made a smaller pack. The fact that the pack was damaged in the first place means I am not going to warranty the rest of the pack that you make. If your going to take a brand new pack apart and make smaller packs then how do I know you didn't damage them during the process. Of course if you buy loose cells and one of them puffs or goes low voltage while sitting there, that is no problem to replace. I'm sorry if I wasn't more clear on this subject to those of you who are upset at me. I'm a new company and I make my share of mistakes and apologize to those of you that I may have wrongly accused.

Aiden

Thanks for the spelling check. I have never struggled so much with one word spelled 3 different ways :)

Kieth

I don't have a problem with new technology. You didn't hear any complaints from me when the old revos and A-specks held a higher voltage then mine. Then comes John telling everybody, Hey, I got this new product I'm working on that is going to change lipos as we know it. It's a new chemistry and will have a higher voltage. See where I'm going with this?

Hobby King stole this new product from Revo and is trying to capitalize on what John made. This is an out right theft and anybody who buys these packs from HK is perpetuating this theft. I recommend you guy only buy from Revo. For sport use that is :)

Mark

[Luck as a Constant]

Guys

Thanks for the spelling check. I have never struggled so much with one word spelled 3 different ways Mark

English has to be the most confusing language in the world lol
We have so many words that sound the same but are spelled differently and have different meanings.
"There" is used when referring to a place.

"Their" implys possessiveness as in "their house"

"They're" is the contraction of "they" and "are"

Hope this helps!
Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MarkF]

Thanks

My wife just made a sticky and stuck it on my computer screen :)

Mark

[Luck as a Constant]

Haha awesome


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[785boats]

2) The factory that John trusted to do this step for him is less than loyal and sold his method to someone else

Keith.
This is exactly what has happened with these packs.
John has discussed it over on R/C Groups & has told me directly that the factory he developed the technology with sold it out from under him to Turnigy/HK.

[ron1950]

do we really need these batteries? there are enough guys over charging there reg lipos and getting lipo fires etc cheating at about every race. I don't think namba will go with the stickers at least I hope not....

[Doug Smock]

there are enough guys over charging there reg lipos and getting lipo fires etc cheating at about every race.

Are you serious Ron? If you are I'd drop a line to the NAMBA Safety Director. Not to tell you your business of course.

[keithbradley]

It's odd the way people sometimes see things.
If we take personal interest out of this thread, I think the obvious conclusion is that voltage should be checked before runs at events where records are set. Competing brands should be left to compete.

In regards to Mark's post about John claiming to have something that will "change lipos as we know it (them)": If you're quoting someone who isn't in the thread and using their choice of words as a basis for why their product should be banned in your organization, you should probably actually quote their statement by copy/pasting what they actually said and providing a link. (I will provide an example of how this is done at the end of this post.) I've never heard John talk like that. If anything he is typically quite humble and usually presents his products in the spirit of "try them and let me know what you think mate". Nonetheless, it's ridiculous to imply that we should pick apart someone's marketing and apply it to event regulations, regardless of his choice of wording. Saying your product is going to change the market, shake things up, provide an advantage, etc. is nothing new.

This is really d@mn simple guys. Proper voltage at the start of a run or don't compete. If you want to regulate competitors based on what the stickers on their packs say, good luck.

In regards to safety, I am in total agreement that overcharging practices should not be tolerated. Regardless of lipo brand, some people just don't have the confidence in their abilities to believe they can win without cheating, and they're going to do what they find necessary if not regulated. A sticker on a lipo will never change the integrity of competitors. The ONLY difference between the lipos in question and any other lipos in this regard is that the cheaters using HV lipos would not be creating the safety hazard that the others are. Cheaters are still cheaters. If you're running 43v in a T class, you're cheating, whether you're running Dinogys or otherwise.

This is a quote taken verbatim from Mark F in the Revo thread on KBB:

"They are performing better than the dinogys because he is charging them to 4.27 volts which is what the new packs can do. The dinogy's would perform better to if you charge them that high . Also the difference in voltage in his testing is very small considering he's testing a 48 volt pack and there is only 1 volt or less difference. Also the older Revo packs he tested didn't do well at all against his even older dinogy packs."

[NativePaul]

If I can drag the conversation away from batteries and towards the issue of how to charge them for a minute, I hear great things about the Revolectrix Powerlab chargers, and think they are fairly common in America, but they are pretty rare here and nobody I regularly race with has one that I can play about with. I guess that now they have there own HV LiPos the chargers can be adjusted to go over the normal 4.2v limit, but do they come like that stock or is a firmware update needed first? If it needs an update do you need a special cable/link or does it have a standard USB socket? Is it just a single setting for 4.27v or can you adjust it to whatever voltage you want? I am particularly interested in whether they can be set to charge to 4.23v, as this is the voltage limit set by Naviga and the maximum I would be allowed to charge them to (we have had a maximum charge voltage rule and voltage testing in place since LiPos were allowed). What I am reading about the higher voltage under load even when charged to the same voltage is very intriguing and the lowish price point makes it doubly so, it is time for me to scout around and see if anyone in the UK is selling them.

English has to be the most confusing language in the world lol
We have so many words that sound the same but are spelled differently and have different meanings.

"There" is used when referring to a place, as in "that there house" (in the backwoods).

"Their" implies possessiveness, as in "their house" (belonging to them).

"They're" is the contraction of "they" and "are", as in "they're House" (talking about the surname of Dr House's family).

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Chrisg81983]

Mark, no offense but your grammar sucks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol that's awesome.

Anyways there are always going to be cheaters along with moronic people who screw things up. First things is first we need to realize we can't control everything. Second is why should everyone else have to suffer for another ones actions. So anybody saying that revo packs are not needed is just wrong. Most of us are grown adult , and if one cannot charge a lousy battery correctly that person should not be in the hobby. It's almost impossible to go to any kind of event and not find a cheater/s. What some of you are saying about revos not being need doesn't make sense. It's like saying you or I can't use cam 2 ( race fuel ) in our high compression motors using nitrous. We are only allowed to run low compression supercharged motors. This would never fly at the track so think about what you are really saying. We all should be for advancements in technology. Yes I agree that we need to find a way to make things fair, for example checking voltage. Remember there are more cheaters and dumb ass' s than honest smart people , so don't ruin.it for all by trying to control the idiot's.
Thanks for letting me share
Chris G

[Luck as a Constant]

Lol that's awesome.
Chris G

How were you able to quote this comment? I deleted it because it was a bit harsh...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[785boats]

If I can drag the conversation away from batteries and towards the issue of how to charge them for a minute, I hear great things about the Revolectrix Powerlab chargers, and think they are fairly common in America, but they are pretty rare here and nobody I regularly race with has one that I can play about with. I guess that now they have there own HV LiPos the chargers can be adjusted to go over the normal 4.2v limit, but do they come like that stock or is a firmware update needed first? If it needs an update do you need a special cable/link or does it have a standard USB socket? Is it just a single setting for 4.27v or can you adjust it to whatever voltage you want? I am particularly interested in whether they can be set to charge to 4.23v, as this is the voltage limit set by Naviga and the maximum I would be allowed to charge them to (we have had a maximum charge voltage rule and voltage testing in place since LiPos were allowed). What I am reading about the higher voltage under load even when charged to the same voltage is very intriguing and the lowish price point makes it doubly so, it is time for me to scout around and see if anyone in the UK is selling them.

Paul.
I would say that it is a progressive setting. The Hyperion Duo that I use has a max TCS setting of 4.28 at 5mv increments. The power lab would probably be a similar set up. Contact Revolectrix to make sure. All their manuals are on their site I think, if you want to wade through them. Check out their postage rates too. It's only $20.00 for 2 x 6s packs to Australia. Damn cheap.
http://www.store.revolectrix.com/

[MarkF]

Keith

Please stop with your comments to me and bringing stuff in that doesn't matter. What does your posting of irrelevant quotes have to do with the current rule set. Namba and Impba both say 3.7 volts nominal in their (spellcheck) rule book. This isn't my rule but ours.

Mark

[NativePaul]

Mark, I think Keith's posts here have brought forward some very valid points, especially about the need for testing. The quote of you he just posted was not only relevant but rather interesting when compared to what you said on page1, it seems like you are contradicting yourself the way I am reading them, perhaps you could clarify wichever is coming across wrong.

In the testing done by Mcsguy the new HV packs held 2 volts higher than anybody else and that was when they were charged at 4.20 volts. That number goes higher when you compare to lesser brands or charge to 4.35.

This is a quote taken verbatim from Mark F in the Revo thread on KBB:

"They are performing better than the dinogys because he is charging them to 4.27 volts which is what the new packs can do. The dinogy's would perform better to if you charge them that high . Also the difference in voltage in his testing is very small considering he's testing a 48 volt pack and there is only 1 volt or less difference. Also the older Revo packs he tested didn't do well at all against his even older dinogy packs."

Are they 2v up on the rest when charged to 4.2v/cell, or <1v up on the rest when charged to 4.27v/cell? I find it hard to believe that the HV cells are giving less voltage under load when charged to the higher voltage, which is what these quotes seem to imply.

[Doug Smock]

Just wanted to clear this up.
The IMPBA voltages USED to be nominal +/- 17%. When the noise started about overcharging LiPos started (something I never thought of personally) we quickly did some studying on voltages recorded at Time Trials and the BOD approved the following maximum voltage limits.

N-3.7 to 8.46

P-11.1 to 16.92

Q-18.5 to 25.38

S-25.9 to 33.84

T-33.3 to 42.3

These are the absolute maximum voltages per class. If your voltage is above this you will not be allowed to run.
Having said that, the HV cells are legal in the IMPBA as long as they are at or below maximum limits.

[tlandauer]

This is a very interesting thread.

You have no idea what a headache I have reading this and the other P-motor thread, I just want to see my toy boats go, besides the fact that I don't drive and see well, I just realized my comprehension is low as well, could not understand any language used in any rules. Guess I am a lifer as far as being a zoom zoom guy is concerned.
Yes, my apologies to everyone as this is utter non-sense what I just wrote, but I have a 16 hours time difference between California and the land of ridiculously high prized CNC props---Singapore, read SingaBORE!
Please feel free to delete, my take is that since rules are established, they should be followed until such a time that the new technology is ripe and mature and is within everyone's grasp, hopefully then a revisit of this topic would yield some corrective measure from the governing body of race organizations to reflect such advancement in battery technology.

[NativePaul]

Good info there Doug, thanks. Those IMPBA maximum pack charge voltages work out to be the same 4.23v/cell maximum charge voltage that Naviga use. I suspect that NAMBA will move to a maximum charge voltage rule at some point, I don't see any way to tech a nominal voltage limit at the lakeside.

You have no idea what a headache I have reading this and the other P-motor thread, I just want to see my toy boats go, besides the fact that I don't drive and see well, I just realized my comprehension is low as well, could not understand any language used in any rules. Guess I am a lifer as far as being a zoom zoom guy is concerned.

No worries Tlandauer, boat racers are a friendly bunch and any slight bickering over rules is just because we all want what is best for the sport but have slightly different visions of what is best, we are still buddies with those we disagree with. Just turn up at a club or regional race with your boat, everyone will be very happy to see a potential new racer and most folks will bend over backwards to get you racing, explaining any rules you don't quite understand face to face with a boat to demonstrate can help a lot. If you are in breach someone will likely lend you what you need to conform, or if not they will probably still let you race anyway the first time (though not for points). Most folks driving leaves a little to be desired when they start, it is a learning process. Give it a go, it is a lot more fun compared to running solo.

[Chrisg81983]

Just wanted to clear this up.
The IMPBA voltages USED to be nominal +/- 17%. When the noise started about overcharging LiPos (something I never thought of personally) we quickly did some studying on voltages recorded at Time Trials and the BOD approved the following maximum voltage limits.

N-3.7 to 8.46

P-11.1 to 16.92

Q-18.5 to 25.38

S-25.9 to 33.84

T-33.3 to 42.3

These are the absolute maximum voltages per class. If your voltage is above this you will not be allowed to run.
Having said that, the HV cells are legal in the IMPBA as long as they are at or below maximum limits.

So I guess this settles it.
Thanks Doug

[tlandauer]

@ NativePaul,
I am deeply grateful for your words of encouragement and wisdom, it is my goal to show up at a race one of these days!
Cheers!

[keithbradley]

my take is that since rules are established, they should be followed until such a time that the new technology is ripe and mature and is within everyone's grasp, hopefully then a revisit of this topic would yield some corrective measure from the governing body of race organizations to reflect such advancement in battery technology.

I think this is the only logical way to move forward. For now, we have to go off the guidelines already established based on 4.2v/cell. As lipo tech changes and 4.6v/cell becomes the new standard and 4.2v/cell is phased out (I expect this will take a couple years at least), the classes will likely be changed to suit the newer full charge levels. For now, allowing everyone to compete and keeping things fair is the right thing to do, just like what we're doing with A123 cells.

Trying to tech lipos based on the pack sticker is not only impossible to do correctly, but it encourages cheating. It's much easier to change a sticker than it is to fool a voltmeter.


.
.
.
.
I'm making a new brand of lipo guys. I'm calling them "Safe-T" lipos. Here's our latest ad campaign:

Our new Safe-T lipos will perform well and can be charged to 4.2v/cell just like the lipos you're used to. Nominal voltage when charged to 4.2v/cell will be considered 3.7v/cell (although nominal is far from a technical standard). However, we have one improvement made with these lipos that is beyond what some other lipos offer:
Most manufacturers will say that the maximum safe voltage per lipo cell is 4.25v, and recommend charging them to 4.2v/cell to maintain a safe buffer zone. OUR lipos are actualy safe to over 4.3v cell, which means that when charging packs to the sanctioning body standard of 4.2v/cell, a larger safety "buffer zone" is realized, making accidental overcharging accidents fewer and further between.
Stop living on the edge with your old lipos. Think about the safety of yourself and those around you. Choose Safe-T lipos.


.
.
.
.
SO....Who's the edit who would want to keep safe-t lipos out of competition, and exactly what would we be accomplishing be doing so?

Don't let the way people "spin" things affect your taking an intelligent, objective look at what's right or wrong.