TFL Hobbies.. New Boats

[skeeler]

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[waterproof]

I think a wider genesis is a great idea!
Also make them with 4.76mm flex shaft like outerlimits/smash shark/ariane and pursuit have so it could handle 5-6s lipo without broke the driveline.

Maby add a extra layer of fiberglas to the front of the hull also to get it stiff enough at the front, this would be the perfect rtr catamaran on the marked.

But the lenght and the look is great and its a very popular beginner boat, dont want to say something bad to you but people with experience dont buy them because its not wide enough and the driveline need to be 4.76 like the other solid TFL boats :)

[T.S.Davis]

Wider genesis is a good idea. Might make it an oval boat that way.

How about a 6s rigger?

[skeeler]

I think a wider genesis is a great idea!
Also make them with 4.76mm flex shaft like outerlimits/smash shark/ariane and pursuit have so it could handle 5-6s lipo without broke the driveline.

Maby add a extra layer of fiberglas to the front of the hull also to get it stiff enough at the front, this would be the perfect rtr catamaran on the marked.

Agreed.

[Apophis]

Do not make the Genesis an oval boat!!! LOL This is probably one of the best selling cats out, and I would imagine it's because of it's scale looks and it's top speed capabilities(being cheap helps too). Making it into something else will ruin it's appeal IMO. It can be improved upon, but making it into a Cheetah, well then you just have another Cheetah lol. There are not many choices out there in the Q cat size and i would like to see a hull that is 40 inches or just under, yes a little wider but just so it airs out more. I just don't see a dihedral hull design turning like people think it can, well the KBB45 seems to turn great, but that is also not a "budget hull" like the Genesis. I would imagine they want boats they can sell as rtr,artr, and bare hull and this hull sells because it's fast, not because it can turn on a dime.

[Doby]

Do not make the Genesis an oval boat!!! LOL This is probably one of the best selling cats out, and I would imagine it's because of it's scale looks and it's top speed capabilities(being cheap helps too). Making it into something else will ruin it's appeal IMO. It can be improved upon, but making it into a Cheetah, well then you just have another Cheetah lol. There are not many choices out there in the Q cat size and i would like to see a hull that is 40 inches or just under, yes a little wider but just so it airs out more. I just don't see a dihedral hull design turning like people think it can, well the KBB45 seems to turn great, but that is also not a "budget hull" like the Genesis. I would imagine they want boats they can sell as rtr,artr, and bare hull and this hull sells because it's fast, not because it can turn on a dime.

They could always offer the current version and a "race" version.

[Apophis]

They could always offer the current version and a "race" version.

I would like to see a Genesis V2 for speed and like Travis said maybe a smaller version of the Cheetah for oval. I can't talk from experience but it seems flat ride pads would be better for oval?

[T.S.Davis]

Can we racers have a cat that turns on a dime? Call it a "not the Genesis". Feeling like a second class citizen here. haha TFL typically likes to make boats that "can" be raced but it's not a primary goal as far as I know. Sure looks cool wider to me. Just going wider may not mean it will turn though.

An 850mm genesis (looking) cat would fall right into P limited cat which was one of the largest classes at the FE Nationals last month. It's such a sweet looking boat. There are currently only 3 boat options for P limited cat. Could sell it RTR with a 2050kv 4pole SSS motor and a Hobbywing 120.......hmmmm.

Liking that idea more and more.

[Doby]

Yup, just need to get the motor "approved" by both organizations, but a Genesis P-Spec cat would be cool.

[Vin-m]

they could still make the normal genesis but add the wider version to their arsenal . again shocker hulls are very hard to come by for a reason.genesis hulls are everywhere.

[T.S.Davis]

Yup, just need to get the motor "approved" by both organizations, but a Genesis P-Spec cat would be cool.

IMPBA doesn't have "limited". The NAMBA thing I can figure out if they decide to go that route.

For that matter.....a mass production of the Pursuit with the 2050 SSS and the HW120 would likely change the motor lexicon.

[Apophis]

Can we racers have a cat that turns on a dime? Call it a "not the Genesis". Feeling like a second class citizen here. haha

LOL I just don't want to lose my Genesis hull, or an improved one. Also Terry I never got a chance to say anything back to you, I did see your invite to come out some time. I would love to and plan on it. And when I do take the step into some oval racing it will be P limited cat so I wouldn't mind seeing a new one!

[longballlumber]

Could sell it RTR with a 2050kv 4pole SSS motor and a Hobbywing 120.......hmmmm.
Liking that idea more and more.

No offense, but more KV in the spec class isn't the right direction IMO... Its just going to drive AMP draw higher that it already is. It should stay in the 1800KV range.

Later,
Ball

[T.S.Davis]

Maybe not but a motor with fewer failures is the right direction. The amp draw isn't the issue with the current batch of spec motors IMO. It's that 6 pole motors have little tiny wires. Nature of the design. They get too hot and failure is eminent. The spec doesn't require 6 pole. A 4 pole Neu at that kv would last a decade.

Now if someone were to mass produce a boat with a cheap Neu knockoff the game completely changes. The price point and mass would be the only issue. More of this........

I've had much better luck with the 1800's lately too.

[properchopper]

Maybe not but a motor with fewer failures is the right direction. The amp draw isn't the issue with the current batch of spec motors IMO. It's that 6 pole motors have little tiny wires. Nature of the design. They get too hot and failure is eminent. The spec doesn't require 6 pole. A 4 pole Neu at that kv would last a decade.

Now if someone were to mass produce a boat with a cheap Neu knockoff the game completely changes. The price point and mass would be the only issue. More of this........

I've had much better luck with the 1800's lately too.

While I would rather eat a box of motors rather than start another motor homologation-fest, I'd propose this as a viable candidate :

TP Power 3630 (36mm X 60mm) 11D 1900KV 60A max (claimed) 900w / 1800w 4 pole $85 retail

[T.S.Davis]

TP Power 3630 (36mm X 60mm) 11D 1900KV 60A max (claimed) 900w / 1800w 4 pole $85 retail

Needs to be part of an RTR package to get to the next step. TFL already has all the pieces on their shelf to release it as an RTR.

[Monica Smith]

Thank you for all who attend on this subject!
I try to visit here every day, in order to catch up the comments and try to mark down some suggestions for our 2015 designs file. But due to my poor English, so I read full English messages slowly, please pardon me I can't answer your questions in time! But I will try to collect and sort you guys' informations.

[Luck as a Constant]

Here's a larger image:

This. :yesway:


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[properchopper]

Needs to be part of an RTR package to get to the next step. TFL already has all the pieces on their shelf to release it as an RTR.

While treading dangerously close to a homologation discussion (at which time I will be targeted for "rehabilitation") the NAMBA rulz do NOT specify that the motor need to be part of a RtR , only that they are on the approved list . Adding a new, more robust motor to the list would be nice but I'm not holding my breath, ever.

PLUS

NAMBA Section 28, d) P-Limited approved motors, iii) in addition the CD has the discretion to allow the following : (b) "......or a motor that is used in a Ready to Run (RTR) offering from a manufacturer that produces over 100 units of said offering..." Here's where a nice TFL addition would possibly fit in (only when a CD would allow it) the way the current rules are written.

Obviously the current group of approved NAMBA Ltd. motors , not coincidentally, come in RTR boats (except for the Himax HB3630) but ..............

[iridebikes247]

Would it be difficult to just scale the genesis up to a 45" boat?

Right now this is a fantastic size hull as there is a lot of competition. There is so much talk about keith's new boat, for those of us that can't quite afford it but want to hang with the other SAW people this is a cool idea.

In addition another cheetah would be cool, how about a BIGGER cheetah also like the size of an aeromarine conquest?

[skeeler]

Can we racers have a cat that turns on a dime? Call it a "not the Genesis".

I'd like to see this too.

An 850mm genesis (looking) cat would fall right into P limited cat which was one of the largest classes at the FE Nationals last month. It's such a sweet looking boat. There are currently only 3 boat options for P limited cat.

Liking that idea more and more.

This sounds along the lines of what I've been talking about.

So, to put those together, how about two new boats:

• A wider Genesis at the current length (37 inches) or just under the Q limit (40 inches) that is engineered to turn.
• Another wide design intended for oval racing, but just under the P limit (34 inches).

Both boats should have the beautiful styling of the current Genesis.

Of course, the current, slender Genesis can continue.

[kfxguy]

Thank you for all who attend on this subject!
I try to visit here every day, in order to catch up the comments and try to mark down some suggestions for our 2015 designs file. But due to my poor English, so I read full English messages slowly, please pardon me I can't answer your questions in time! But I will try to collect and sort you guys' informations.

Read.... (mini cheetah is needed!)

[skeeler]

Here's an illustration of my last post/proposal:

[kfxguy]

Would it be difficult to just scale the genesis up to a 45" boat?

Right now this is a fantastic size hull as there is a lot of competition. There is so much talk about keith's new boat, for those of us that can't quite afford it but want to hang with the other SAW people this is a cool idea.

In addition another cheetah would be cool, how about a BIGGER cheetah also like the size of an aeromarine conquest?

Bigger cheetah would be cool too. Let's not clutter up the thread with motor suggestions, rules and ever thing else guys. We could start a new thread for that. Monica just wants hull suggestions and if this gets too far off course she's not going to be able to read it all and sort all the extra stuff :)

[kfxguy]

Here's an illustration of my last post/proposal:

Could you draw one up for the cheetah? Somewhere around 26 to 29 inches long. I think that would be a good size.

[flraptor07]

Right now this is a fantastic size hull as there is a lot of competition. There is so much talk about keith's new boat, for those of us that can't quite afford it but want to hang with the other SAW people this is a cool idea.

Ya Know the new KBB 45 is not that expensive, I got mine for $499.00 to my door. Two weeks prior I got a Fantasm direct from TFL $415.00 to my door. You're talking a $84.00 difference for twice the boat, IMO that's one heck of a deal!!!

[Apophis]

You can get a Daytona hull from f/c shipped for about 100. And an artr painted Genesis for 200 (need esc and servo). These hulls are for new guys, or guys like me that want to blow the doors off without going broke when she disintegrates lol. I love Keith's new hull and I will build one this winter, but it's a different animal.

Skeeler, nice pics, just about prefect. The Q cat is a little wide tho, adding 4 inches to the width would be too much.

[iridebikes247]

I have 3 mhz hulls at the moment and all have matching mtc/mhz/mbp hardware. Keith's boat is in the same league and I would treat it like any European hull, big investment, huge reward. I would only run his hardware and once everything adds up, it adds up. To outfit a kbb45 and to effectively climb to it's potential one must look to his hardware kit to get there. The KBB is an mhz/hpr alternative.

[keithbradley]

I think everyone's input is important, and I won't pretend to know everything about hull design, so take this in the spirit in which it's intended. I don't see what the appeal is in making the Genesis/Daytona hull so much wider. Without changing the sponson design I think you would end up with a temperamental hull that spins out/hooks in the turns.
Somebody mentioned the idea of a more scale looking MTI type cat. I think of the styling was right out would bea good addition.

[Monica Smith]

Thanks again, Sirs. I read all your comments, please pardon me, here I will not answer one by one. But I got what you like.

About our Genesis, it designed from full size real boat is Mystics, I am pretty sure. Because at the time we did not get the authorization, so was afraid to give the original name to Our Genesis, at last we given name to it is Genesis!

Fighter cat is one of TFL dealers in USA!

At first, all of TFL boats just depend on Naviga rule to design. When we notice that USA rule is different with Naviga rule, then we concern on IMPBA and NAMBA rules to design our boat, too. Our boats are not only for Europe racers, sports boaters, but also for you, USA racers! This is our goal! That is why we start this thread here to get you involved in our 2015 boats proposal!

I am sure TFL owner would like to get your comments, in fact, he already thinks about to produce Genesis II and Cheetah II. We will see what will be happened in 2015.