Anyone else think swordfish

[jcald2000]

The last 15 to 30 seconds of your data graph voltage gives your answer, the voltage falls off a cliff killing the cheap cells.
Listen to what people with MANY years of experience are telling you or continue to suffer because they will mark you as a lost cause.

[Engelkefarm]

I see that. So i should just accept the fact lvc will not work on a swordfish and i have to stand there with a stopwatch? Never did that with my old esc. People with many years are telling me swordfish is putting out more power which is false. I asked should bolth batts drain equal i get no answer. The worst part is i cant state the facts a 180 is better than a swordfish 200a in my opinion

[Engelkefarm]

Your setup is defective because you are running inferior batteries with not enough capacity to supply the load and you are running them down too far. ESC temps are not over the top, and there's no way the ESC can generate heat in the batteries.
The rest of us have already come to terms with the fact that LVC in high draw boats is basically useless to protect batteries, ESPECIALLY if your cells aren't perfectly matched, it's just the way it is. But FWIW, because the max lvc on the SF is 3.3v, I set mine for a cell count of 1 higher than I have and adjust the lvc accordingly, for example my 10s boat is set at 11s/3.1v which is basically the same as 3.4v/cell, but if I run it down to lvc I expect a pack to be compromised, so I time the runs and stop before. You can set it to 7s/3v and it would cut out sooner. The thing with Seaking's is that the LVC is known to cut out prematurely, almost NONE of us use it, this is widely known but that was your saving grace with the old setup, now the LVC is cutting out where it is supposed to, which is way too low, and your packs are being damaged.


Best answer so far. Just gets me mad i have damaged packs because i relied on a lvc and who pays for new ones? Me.

[Doby]

So, solve your problems by doing the following.....
1) buy better packs
2) get a Seaking ESC that you like
3) time your runs

Done!

LVC is for people that are to lazy to time their runs. You can always expect your lipos to not last as long if you use LVC. I think in a previous post you said it ran fine about 70 times!!! Running to LVC 70 times is not going to keep your LiPos happy!!!! Also, remaining battery capacity is more important than the voltage after a run.

Get one of these

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...emp-eossentry2

[rickwess]

Yes but i think it keeps loging when i take it out of water till batt is dusconnected

No it doesn't. My graphs are proof of that. Not sure what the trigger is but it's not logging when I bring it in to check for temps.

[Engelkefarm]

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/dow...%20manuals.pdf

Page 3 section d about lvc. The 180 i used the lvc on 6 cell. The swordfish instructions say put on 3 cell lvc im guessing this may be my problem?

[T.S.Davis]

Individual voltages are not the same. Packs are not even close after a run.

There's the problem. Speedo can't do that. There's no way for it to do that.

The packs should drain the same.......but only if they are of the same quality. If even one cell in either packs is weak it screws up the whole thing. This is the risk with less expensive packs. Usually it's fine if a cell is delivering lower voltage in say a Revolt running 65 amps or so. You might not notice a weak cell. The boat will likely be slow.........er. When you start drawing 175+ amps that weak cell can make a mess. It gets hot. Increasing it's internal resistance. Which makes the whole system worse. At the end of the run your cells will be hot as hell trying to in effect balance voltages between the cells during the run. It's like trying to run a foot race only someone stuck a knife in one of your legs. Weak leg makes the other leg do all the work. The good leg can't do it alone. Feel'n the burn?

Another risk with the budget packs is internal resistance. If internal resistance is super high on again, just one cell. Screws up the whole works. The other cells have to make up the difference. Back to the foot race. One leg has a cramp. Not only is it useless but your good leg is on fire from the extra work.

The LVC might have bought you time but the heat would still have destroyed the entire system eventually.

I don't think I've hit an LVC since Nimh days. Maybe I just have a mental timer that makes me stop in time. Although, I'm hearing that the premature LVC on my SW120 may have been causing problems for my son in LSH. Not done messing with that.

Guys, there's nothing wrong with buying cheaper packs. Turnigy, Zippy, etc. You just have to accept the risk that comes with them. There IS a failure potential. It isn't a given though. Some of them are awesome. IMHO the cheaper packs require the knowledge to recognize when and more importantly why something isn't working. Unfortunately, the cheaper packs are purchased by guys that can't justify the good ones. "I'm just a back yard basher, I don't want to race" guy is who ends up with them. They don't have knowledge or the equipment to figure the danged things out. That's not a criticism by the way.

Example. Doby had some fresh packs for the Nats. They were of the less expensive variety. Voltage was equal when I checked them two weeks earlier. By race day he had a cell drop out of a pack. Voltage was low on just one cell if I remember correctly. He knows what the potential impact is sssso......he didn't race them. Knowledge wins again. woohoo

The key to this example is that John knew he needed to check them before he threw a gozillion amps at them.

Dang, wrote a novel. Sorry guys. I type fast.

[Livewire121]

LVC is a known problem when dealing with FE in general, so the only way to truly protect your batteries is to use the stopwatch method. I also had lvc problems when i first started running FE, but since i started using the stopwatch method i haven't had a problem. My T-120 esc's lvc would prematurely kick in because of voltage sag. When I brought the boat in and checked the batteries, there would still be about 60% left in the packs.

[T.S.Davis]

My T-120 esc's lvc would prematurely kick in because of voltage sag. When I brought the boat in and checked the batteries, there would still be about 60% left in the packs.

This sounds like what we ran into. I'm going to turn the LVC off. We've run the setup a bunch of times. It's not like we run it until the batts dump. 7 laps and done.

[Livewire121]

This sounds like what we ran into. I'm going to turn the LVC off. We've run the setup a bunch of times. It's not like we run it until the batts dump. 7 laps and done.

Hey Terry it worked like a charm after turning and like you said above, you're only running 7 lap heats.

[kevinpratt823]

If one battery is fine and the other over drained perhaps a bad solder joint in the parallel connectors. Just a suggestion BTW as to why there are problems with one ESC and not anther.

He doesn't have parallel connectors it is 2 packs in series.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[kevinpratt823]

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/dow...%20manuals.pdf

Page 3 section d about lvc. The 180 i used the lvc on 6 cell. The swordfish instructions say put on 3 cell lvc im guessing this may be my problem?

Wait, are you saying the lvc was set on 3 cell?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[kevinpratt823]

Again, your sk180 likely only lasted because the lvc was cutting out early and your runs were far shorter. From your graph you are obviously running way too long, and you better double check your settings.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Engelkefarm]

It was set on 3 cell but it should be on 6 cell as i just tried it and no more high temps. Max temp 60* c. The instructions do say to put it on 3 cell for some reason. Packs are draining equal again set on 6 cell also. I do like using lvc i just want it to work the way it should

[rickwess]

It was set on 3 cell but it should be on 6 cell as i just tried it and no more high temps. Max temp 60* c. The instructions do say to put it on 3 cell for some reason. Packs are draining equal again set on 6 cell also. I do like using lvc i just want it to work the way it should

The instructions DO NOT say to set it as 3s. Extrapolating the statement......6S (2 lipo in series) should be set to 6s.

o4O6dtJ.png

[kevinpratt823]

So maybe now you should go back to the other 3 threads you ranted in and explain that you yourself caused the problem not the controller, and while you're at it you may want to send the owner of ose an apology too.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Engelkefarm]

Well who wrote up the instructions? Am i not correct instructios say to set at 3 cell

[rickwess]

Well who wrote up the instructions? Am i not correct instructios say to set at 3 cell

No you're not. Please explain how they told you to set the LVC at 3s.

[ron1950]

why complain just don't buy anymore of there product....if its junk they wont be around long anyway...

[Engelkefarm]

Hopefully it helps the next guy. Thats All im trying to do. I do prefer the seaking 180

[T.S.Davis]

8 laps if I blow it. A nice thing and the bad thing about the GP cells. They'll deliver 3v/cell right down to 0% remaining. So I'll finish but with the LVC off the cells may self destruct. I brought in my P offshore boat after 4 minutes and the EOS said I had -3%. How the heck is that possible? Still were over 3v/cell but that was with no load.

This LVC thing puzzles me a bit. It seems to me that the SF esc are actually programmed such that if you set it at 3v/cell it triggers sooner than 3v/cell. Like maybe when set to 3v it cuts at 3.5v. IDK. That's even more idiot proof than the Seaking. They've programmed in their own safety factor. Not necessary for racers that know their setups before they let it all hang out but for a sport guy it should (should) prevent them from over discharging and wrecking their gear.

Now if you set it for a different cell count then you're running all bets are off. That LVC isn't doing jack. A 6s boat set for 3s will discharge down to 9volts. That's shutting down at 1.5v per cell. In theory. That is likely 0% remaining in the packs. Once you over discharge there's no telling what the deal is on the cells. Some cells in the pack may be stone empty and others have some left. Then your charger balances as best it can but the damage is done. The cells wont likely discharge at the same rate anymore. Back to the foot race I described. More heat, more damage every time the boat goes out. If it's run until it shuts down each of those times the cells wont last a dozen runs.

This is especially true on the budget cells. They can't handle abuse. None of the cells are impervious to a beating but the higher end cells are a little more forgiving. Still not recommended to dump them to nothing.

[T.S.Davis]

Thats All im trying to do. I do prefer the seaking 180

The Seaking are really nice. I can just plug it in and not have to figure anything out. Frustrating when I have to learn something new.

[kevinpratt823]

The instructions don't in any way, even remotely, imply that you should set it at 3s, I have no idea where you are getting that. They tell you about voltage per cell, and give a couple examples, you are running 6 cell.
The fact that you immediately came all over the forum ranting about it and blaming the product, and even the owner of OSE, is disheartening. You also kept saying you're entitled to voice your opinion, and when doing so multiple times you used the words "opinion" and "fact" in the same sentence, basically insisting your opinion was a fact, even though it was based on quick assumptions. You may want to reconsider your approach in that area of discussion.

But I do agree, the Seaking180 has been very simple and good for me as well, I wish they made some comparable higher amperage and higher voltage stuff with data logging that held up like they do.

[ray schrauwen]

edit, my bad, wrong... sorry. Atomik cells are not the greatest that's well known.

[kfxguy]

there's the problem. Speedo can't do that. There's no way for it to do that.

The packs should drain the same.......but only if they are of the same quality. If even one cell in either packs is weak it screws up the whole thing. This is the risk with less expensive packs. Usually it's fine if a cell is delivering lower voltage in say a revolt running 65 amps or so. You might not notice a weak cell. The boat will likely be slow.........er. When you start drawing 175+ amps that weak cell can make a mess. It gets hot. Increasing it's internal resistance. Which makes the whole system worse. At the end of the run your cells will be hot as hell trying to in effect balance voltages between the cells during the run. It's like trying to run a foot race only someone stuck a knife in one of your legs. Weak leg makes the other leg do all the work. The good leg can't do it alone. Feel'n the burn?

Another risk with the budget packs is internal resistance. If internal resistance is super high on again, just one cell. Screws up the whole works. The other cells have to make up the difference. Back to the foot race. One leg has a cramp. Not only is it useless but your good leg is on fire from the extra work.

The lvc might have bought you time but the heat would still have destroyed the entire system eventually.

I don't think i've hit an lvc since nimh days. Maybe i just have a mental timer that makes me stop in time. Although, i'm hearing that the premature lvc on my sw120 may have been causing problems for my son in lsh. Not done messing with that.

Guys, there's nothing wrong with buying cheaper packs. Turnigy, zippy, etc. You just have to accept the risk that comes with them. There is a failure potential. It isn't a given though. Some of them are awesome. Imho the cheaper packs require the knowledge to recognize when and more importantly why something isn't working. Unfortunately, the cheaper packs are purchased by guys that can't justify the good ones. "i'm just a back yard basher, i don't want to race" guy is who ends up with them. They don't have knowledge or the equipment to figure the danged things out. That's not a criticism by the way.

Example. Doby had some fresh packs for the nats. They were of the less expensive variety. Voltage was equal when i checked them two weeks earlier. By race day he had a cell drop out of a pack. Voltage was low on just one cell if i remember correctly. He knows what the potential impact is sssso......he didn't race them. Knowledge wins again. Woohoo

the key to this example is that john knew he needed to check them before he threw a gozillion amps at them.

Dang, wrote a novel. Sorry guys. I type fast.

^^^^^this

[kfxguy]

edit, my bad, wrong... sorry. Atomik cells are not the greatest that's well known.

atomik as in venom packs?

[Engelkefarm]

I actually dont think the problem is resolved. But ill figure it out on my own. Too many guys getting all worked up on here

[Rocstar]

The only one "worked up" is you, over the Swordfish ESC. Over 80 posts, all to help you understand what is going on with your boat. But it seems you would rather bash the controller and OSE then actually take advice. Good luck to you...

[kevinpratt823]

I actually dont think the problem is resolved. But ill figure it out on my own. Too many guys getting all worked up on here

You have to be kidding me.......Is your ego clouding things that much? The problem has been spelled out for you, but you refuse to accept or acknowlege that your actions alone have caused it.
It is pretty clear what the boat problems are. You failed to understand how to set an LVC, then you blindly ran it(repeatedly) to a cutoff that was way too low. On top of that, your packs are lower quality, and your 5000 mah setup is underpowered for what you're trying to do if you want to run for more than 2 min. But I think Rumdog said it best when he likened it to blaming the paper for breaking the pencil lead. There is a reason basically everybody on here who has been running boats other than rtr setups eventually realizes that you have to time your runs, and not bring your batteries down lower than 80%, that means when you charge those packs, you shouldn't be putting more than 4000 mah back in. If I ran any one of my boats down to LVC @ 3.3v/cell, nevermind the 1.65v/cell you had it set at, my packs would probably look like giant marshmallows, I know this because I learned the hard way. But by all means, keep puffing packs and insist it's the equipment's fault....but don't expect us to co-sign your BS.

[Livewire121]

My advice is to listen to those with a lot more experience then yourself. Read more then you post. I spend 95% of my time on this site reading, compared to the 5% of posting that I do. Learn as much as you can from the people that have been in this hobby a lot longer then you and I combined. And when you do ask a question truly respect the fact that they've taken the time to reply. There's no shame in admitting you don't know or understand something, but shame is full of people that act like they do. Just my 2 cents