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Thread: Swordfish Pro+ 220 Running Hot

  1. #31
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    Sorry, I'm on my phone. It's real slow.
    Mono will always pull more amps than a hydro. In a straight line anyway. Therefore running hotter.
    No comment on the extra caps, I'm not sure the right answer.
    Are the temp and throttle curves relative?

  2. #32
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    Well it's not that. I asked about timing because if it's high it can make for heat.

    I was going to suggest the 447/3 was a bit too much. Hard to tell with it dropping out him on the 445. Scratching my head on this one too. We had one yesterday that de-soldered for no apparent reason.

    It's a nice build. Very tidy. How is the drive line? Is it smooth?

    Is there a gap at the drive dog?

    I apologize for the seemingly basic questions but sometimes I miss the littlest things and it bites me on the behind.
    Noisy person

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    How is the drive line? Is it smooth?

    Is there a gap at the drive dog?

    I apologize for the seemingly basic questions but sometimes I miss the littlest things and it bites me on the behind.
    At this point, nothing is a basic question. The drive-line is smooth............and short. There is a gap at the drive dog, but only about 1/2 a cable width since the flex part of the cable is only 4"-5" long. I do run a teflon washer between the drive dog and stinger so I can tell if there is binding going on.

  4. #34
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    If you have the shrink off Rick, be sure to check the thermal compound between the cooling and FETs or even redo it. I have seen a little separation on some ESC's there. Just something to check.

    It just dawned on me, these are soldered cooling blocks aren't they?

  5. #35
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    Might be a little work, but what about swapping controllers between your hydro and mono?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by srislash View Post
    If you have the shrink off Rick, be sure to check the thermal compound between the cooling and FETs or even redo it. I have seen a little separation on some ESC's there. Just something to check.

    It just dawned on me, these are soldered cooling blocks aren't they?
    I was going to say that there is no thermal compound. The FETs are soldered directly to the cooling tubes. I wrapped it in electrical tape yesterday so I could run it some more, but I'll post some pics of the innards when I go to put it back together for real. Of note, the electrical tape does a better job of binding the wires and caps tight to the ESC than heat shrink does. When I put it back together for good, I'll probably use electrical tape for the first layer, then put a layer of heat shrink over that.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by oscarel View Post
    Might be a little work, but what about swapping controllers between your hydro and mono?
    The hydro's battery wires are too short and the mono is 4s2p. It would be and in the end I wouldn't have an ESC for the hydro. Once I've ruled out the obvious, the Ockham's razor principle will kick in and I'll just get another ESC.

  8. #38
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    Is the boat running wet? As in nose down? That will cause extra drag and heat. Also looks like your trim tabs are flush with the bottom of the hull...they shouldn't be. They look a little angled down (causing to run wet) but it could just be the pic. Just some ideas.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  9. #39
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    The boat doesn't look to be running wet. The pic you saw was an older one before adjustments were made to stop porpoising. The way it sits now looks to be the happy medium between porpoising and chine walk.

    The stinger is neutral

    2014-06-02 10_51_53-IMG_20140526_095712_upload - Windows Photo Viewer.jpg

  10. #40
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    Rais the trimtaps they are causing alot of drag
    Last edited by Jareth; 06-02-2014 at 06:11 PM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickwess View Post
    Thanks. It's good to have a direct comparison. You're running even hotter. Isn't 88C too hot?
    The Specs for all Swordfish controllers say they are thermal protected to 100 degrees Centigrade, 212 degrees Fahrenheit

    I hope so, because some of mine are pretty close.

  12. #42
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    I would suggest taking speedo off top of motor also..even though both water cooled..heat off of motor rises to speedo..

  13. #43
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    I bought a Swordfish 240 just recently that had badly mis-aligned cooling tubes. That is, each tube is made of two, set out end to end. If I look up the tubes you can clearly see the obstruction the misalignment makes. I'd say one of them is blocked by half at least. Would *really* restrict water flow in mine. Not sure if the 220 is built the same. Check it anyhow.
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  14. #44
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    Hi Rick, I have nothing to add but I would appreciate seeing the inside of the esc if your still planning on posting pictures. I have two of them and a heads up on anything to look for would be much appreciated.
    Thanks

  15. #45
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    Pics of the inside:

    2014-06-03 15_44_58-DSC_0978 - Windows Photo Viewer.jpg 2014-06-03 15_45_31-DSC_0979 - Windows Photo Viewer.jpg 2014-06-03 15_45_57-DSC_0980 - Windows Photo Viewer.jpg 2014-06-03 15_46_17-DSC_0981 - Windows Photo Viewer.jpg 2014-06-03 15_46_50-DSC_0982 - Windows Photo Viewer.jpg

    The aluminum plate covers the FETs was insulated with the thinnest piece of silicon sheet I have ever seen. I could see that the silicone already had some perforations from the FETs. When I put it back together, I plan on using 1/8" automotive gasket from a sheet I had laying around (why do I have this stuff??). It's a cork/rubber mixture so should insulate and handle heat well.
    Last edited by rickwess; 06-04-2014 at 12:05 AM.

  16. #46
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    I really don't get the aluminum plate. I guess they think it will help disapate some heat from the electronics. Perhaps a cooling plate put there would help. My new Flier Twin 300 has a cooling plate sandwiched in between the two halves in this fashion. I guess they figure it will help keep the board cooler as well.
    So I ran my Bling Sunday Rick and sure noticed my ESC warm too. Mind you it was on 5s. Posted the vid in my thread if you want to see how the speed compares.

  17. #47
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    That thin silicon pad must be thermally conductive. Neither it or the aluminum plate touch the cooling tubes, just the FET bodies. If anything it just equalizes the temps of the FETs.

    I'll take a look at the video you posted.
    Last edited by rickwess; 06-04-2014 at 12:08 AM.

  18. #48
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    Just a suggestion...
    Did you calibrate the throttle.
    Ive had some issues with throttle not getting 100% green with SF esc's and spektrum radio.
    I set the end points on transmitter to 125% or higher and it seams to work.

    At 100% end point it was like i was getting 70% throttle.
    If your not getting full throttle it will heat up.

    Regards
    Dave

  19. #49
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    The latest firmware update solved that problem with the Spektrum radios.

  20. #50
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    I just ordered this (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2Pcs-100-100-...-/321419076262) to replace the thin pad that came with the ESC. At 2mm thick it's much more substantial than what came with the ESC.

    While I'm at it, I'll use 1/8" thick piece if aluminum in place of the ~1mm thick piece that came with it.


    Edit: I was thinking about this some more last night and with cutting my own thermal pad, I can make it wide enough so that it touches each of the cooling tubes. This should drain some more heat from the FETs. I'm not encouraging anyone to start ripping there SF ESCs apart, but if you do..............Now to wait for the stuff to arrive from Hong Kong.
    Last edited by rickwess; 06-04-2014 at 09:10 AM.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by srislash View Post
    So I ran my Bling Sunday Rick and sure noticed my ESC warm too. Mind you it was on 5s. Posted the vid in my thread if you want to see how the speed compares.
    Nice. My speed with the m445 seems similar to yours on 4s with the m447.

    I still would like to run a 3 blade, but the x447/3 is the smallest I have. My investment in props is about to go up. This is another dirty little secret about this hobby. If they only new the amount of money tied up in that prop box.

  22. #52
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    Thanks for posting the pictures. It surprises me that esc cooling always appears so inadequate. I wonder if allowing the fets to run at a higher temperature is part of the design. It would be easy to envelope the esc's is cooling, yet it's not done. There must be a balance of some kind they are trying to reach. Something else to look into in my spare time!

  23. #53
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    More FYI. The 4 caps on the ESCs are arranged as follows:

    (-)---[560uf]---[560uf]---(+)
    (-)---[560uf]---[560uf]---(+)

    They are 35v ZLH.

    I think I'm going to go back to my original idea of using an external cap bank even though it's only 4s. I'll configure it like below but need to think about how to neatly tie it into the existing wiring.

    (-)---[470uf]---[470uf]---(+)
    (-)---[470uf]---[470uf]---(+)
    (-)---[470uf]---[470uf]---(+).
    (-)---[470uf]---[470uf]---(+)

  24. #54
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    Did you read Doc's Cap thread Rick? Put the caps direct to the wires.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fella1340 View Post
    Thanks for posting the pictures. It surprises me that esc cooling always appears so inadequate. I wonder if allowing the fets to run at a higher temperature is part of the design. It would be easy to envelope the esc's is cooling, yet it's not done. There must be a balance of some kind they are trying to reach. Something else to look into in my spare time!
    I was thinking the exact same thing.
    Thanks heaps for the pictures!

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickwess View Post
    I just ordered this (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2Pcs-100-100-...-/321419076262) to replace the thin pad that came with the ESC. At 2mm thick it's much more substantial than what came with the ESC.

    While I'm at it, I'll use 1/8" thick piece if aluminum in place of the ~1mm thick piece that came with it.


    Edit: I was thinking about this some more last night and with cutting my own thermal pad, I can make it wide enough so that it touches each of the cooling tubes. This should drain some more heat from the FETs. I'm not encouraging anyone to start ripping there SF ESCs apart, but if you do..............Now to wait for the stuff to arrive from Hong Kong.
    Wouldn't thinner be more ideal? The pad doesn't have great thermal transfer properties compared to direct contact using thermal paste.

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by oscarel View Post
    Wouldn't thinner be more ideal? The pad doesn't have great thermal transfer properties compared to direct contact using thermal paste.
    From the reading I've been doing, the thermal conductivity of this material is the same regardless of thickness (within reason). Of more importance is that the pad is thick enough to bridge the gap or conform to the surface its applied to. In this application it also has to electrically insulate.

    I'll admit that I'm learning on the fly, but that's part of the fun here.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by srislash View Post
    Did you read Doc's Cap thread Rick? Put the caps direct to the wires.
    I read that thread a while ago and then corresponded with Wayne directly. I have some space limitations but the wires off the cap bank will be as short as possible, use 10awg wire and have no connectors.

  29. #59
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    I bought from pre drilled circuit board from circuit city to make mounting the caps easy. I am using the same series parallel setup you are. The only stuff I could get had trace on one side, a quick trip on the belt sander eliminated that. With a little trimming they will be perfect to hold the caps to connect directly to the wire. Some heat shrink to finish it off. I can do a mock up and take a couple pictures if you like.

  30. #60
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    That silicone padding you bought looks great. I will be ordering some to have around.

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