Does Waxing a boat hull increase speed?

[Bduncan]

I can see why the suction theory makes more sense with a mono.

[Fluid]

...I have had my best runs with this Cheetah with a mirror bottom finish on the boat and a highly polished leading edge on the prop....

How much faster was the mirror bottom compared to a sanded bottom? How much faster was the polished prop versus the prop with a satin finish? How long were the GPS runs?



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[Bduncan]

Like i said. i dont have the math to support it and in this case how would one compare
polished or ruff anyway on same boat same conditions. But with this cheetah build by KFXGUY we were trying to set a gps record and i have probably 40 runs to offer my opinion. with all due respect I'm not going
to engage in some EDIT contest on whether a cat runs better polished or not or a prop runs better in this hull polished or not. take it for what it's worth. But until someone posts a GPS run on video of a cheetah running 83 on 7s 86 on 8s, I'm gling with polished hull on FC Cheetah.

[Bduncan]

Fastest Fighter Cat Cheetah PERIOD!
http://youtu.be/8rpnSrjC_-8

[Doug Smock]

Ahem...... Say it with me...... At the end of the day we are grown men playing with TOY boats.

[Bduncan]

gotcha my maritime brother

[properchopper]

Like i said. i dont have the math to support it and in this case how would one compare
polished or ruff anyway on same boat same conditions. But with this cheetah build by KFXGUY we were trying to set a gps record and i have probably 40 runs to offer my opinion. with all due respect I'm not going
to engage in some EDIT contest on whether a cat runs better polished or not or a prop runs better in this hull polished or not. take it for what it's worth. But until someone posts a GPS run on video of a cheetah running 83 on 7s 86 on 8s, I'm gling with polished hull on FC Cheetah.

NAMBA ( real actual SAW record speeds) :

P Catamaran [ 4 cell] : 102.882mph * scuffed sponson bottoms
Q Catamaran [6 cell] : 127.986mph scuffed sponson bottoms
S Catamaran [8 cell] : 132.042mph scuffed sponson bottoms (your Cat unscuffed on 8 cells: 86mph)
T Catamaran [10 cells] : 138.086mph * scuffed sponson bottoms
{I have videos of all these}

To be fair these speeds were not with Cheetahs. You can certainly claim the "apples to oranges" rule. The record catamarans were narrower and more banana-like. (*Maybe it was the Dinogy batteries)

Also to be fair my current NAMBA P-Catamaran 2-Lap National Record was with my unscuffed* Cheetah .

[Bduncan]

what's your point? my mercedes goes 195

[Bduncan]

I'll bet you 5k you can't get a cheetah to
run 86.2

[keithbradley]

I'll bet you 5k you can't get a cheetah to
run 86.2

What a silly statement. Too bad it's an empty promise.
If you had a way to guarantee I'd get my $5k, I'd gladly take that challenge and change that number to 110mph.
Congrats on your boat, but if you're under the impression that nobody has gone faster than 86mph with a cheetah because they can't, you're sorely mistaken.

[Ken Haines]

This entire thread has disintegrated into guys who have never tried something
arguing with racers that have done and seen the results in SAWs or oval racing.

This is why so many experienced racers have given up on offering suggestions here.
Because somehow others know better.....despite the facts that we know from competition.

Yes....sanded bottoms are better, faster and more stable in both turns and straightaways.

[photohoward1]

When Racing, it does not matter how fast your boat is in a straight line.

Larry

Good thing Larry because I have never seen you drive a straight line.

[dasboata]

My tests back in the early 90 , I tilted a hull 45* I took a drop of water on the bow and timed it how long it took to the transom, I used wax, I used Teflon spray silicone spray and bare surface and a scuffed surface and scuff surface was the fastest I scuff and sharpen all my hulls ! with 220-400 grits,, lots you can do to improve a cats handling and top speed !!

[dasboata]

What a silly statement. Too bad it's an empty promise.
If you had a way to guarantee I'd get my $5k, I'd gladly take that challenge and change that number to 110mph.
Congrats on your boat, but if you're under the impression that nobody has gone faster than 86mph with a cheetah because they can't, you're sorely mistaken.

I can hold the money ?????

[jj2003]

I can hold the money ?????

I can watch you hand it over!

[modvp55]

I remember many years ago (30 plus) Jack Oxley was trying to sent the outboard drag record and after several attempts put scratches on the bottom, he then went out and broke the record. Prior to Jack, Art Carlson had the same results after taking his keys to the bottom. My experience on real boats and we tested a lot of things including graphite is a lightly sanded bottom (320 to 600) at and angle was always the best.

[jj2003]

1. The purpose of wax is primarily to protect your finish and secondarily to enhance the shine. If the finish is in good shape, some people argue that wax can't make it any shinier because it just adds a layer on top of the perfectly shiny finish.
   
   
   Does wax make your car go faster? Reduce drag? If that were the case then all the NASCAR people would be waxing their cars instead of tweaking things and finding ways to reduce drag. Thats like saying by adding a sticker that says "Turbo" and putting it on your car makes it go faster.....

[Bduncan]

Haha guys! point taken. So Keith, in single set up in addittion to a pretty big MGM what Lehner you think could get A cheetah to 110?

[Bduncan]

This stuff had been great on escs. I wonder if it has any use on the hull.
http://youtu.be/IPM8OR6W6WE

[Fluid]

This entire thread has disintegrated into guys who have never tried something arguing with racers that have done and seen the results in SAWs or oval racing...This is why so many experienced racers have given up on offering suggestions here.
Because somehow others know better.....despite the facts that we know from competition.

This. ^^^^

When Racing, it does not matter how fast your boat is in a straight line....

So this guy has never passed someone on the straight to take over lane one in the next turn? No wonder he thinks speed doesn't matter....



.

[Bduncan]

Correct, I do mot race. Just ended up with a pretty quick cheetah. It appears everyone thinks this hull with a single motor could go much faster. Just out of curiosity, with the right driver how would a 90+mph cheetah ever lose any oval race. the boat is know to turn with the best of them.

[dasboata]

This entire thread has disintegrated into guys who have never tried something
arguing with racers that have done and seen the results in SAWs or oval racing.

This is why so many experienced racers have given up on offering suggestions here.
Because somehow others know better.....despite the facts that we know from competition.

Yes....sanded bottoms are better, faster and more stable in both turns and straightaways.

well said !!!!! everyone is a know it all, experience doesn't matter any more , who's got the best line of $hit or best sales pitch wins,, sad but true the world is upside down,, and I'm tied of trying to convince anyone that is stuck on there own stubbornness,, I competed for IMPBA & NAMBA official SAW records for 10 years and heat raced for another 10,,,,, frustrated

[jaike5]

what's your point? my mercedes goes 195

195 what ? on water ?

[Doby]

Correct, I do mot race. Just ended up with a pretty quick cheetah. It appears everyone thinks this hull with a single motor could go much faster. Just out of curiosity, with the right driver how would a 90+mph cheetah ever lose any oval race. the boat is know to turn with the best of them.

Well, as you admit you never race...then you will never understand why it won't.

[Bduncan]

I am bery aware my mercedes wont do 195 on water. thanks for pointing that out.

[Bduncan]

Very interesting considering, after seeing some videos of the boat turning. Keith Bradley
suggested i bring this boat to Michigan to possibly set a record that he currently holds. Maybe he was pulling my chain. Was a month or so ago.

[T.S.Davis]

So this guy has never passed someone on the straight to take over lane one in the next turn? No wonder he thinks speed doesn't matter....

No Jay, Larry takes your lane before he's done passing you in the straight. Sorry Larry, I couldn't resist. You need to see Larry's twin Mean Machine Jay. Disturbing. Can't finish to save it's life but OH that back straight...........zzzzzzzzzzing!

Wasn't this thread about wax vs scuff? I think I said it would descend into name calling.

Guys, you need to let go of the notion that GPS is just the same as straight lines. It ain't the same. For all the reasons Keith described. Keith and I argue about everything. He's right this time. Wind, acceleration, ripples, aim, maintain the speed for a given distance, do it twice in a row. If Keith built another twin Cheetah I suspect 110 would be light. Twin cats is kinda his thing. Wouldn't make sense though since there are better options to go Q twin if you just want to go straight.

I'm not discounting everyone's GPS speeds. I get that some are satisfied with that but the notion that it's a duplication of the efforts guys put into running through the lights is nonsense. That's like me telling the top fuel drag boat guys that I'm just as fast as them cuz my GPS said so. Not because I didn't go that fast but because I didn't do it under the same conditions that the top fuel guys did. There's more to being a top fuel racer than just the digits.

So please stop demanding that the SAW guys acknowledge GPS accomplishments as equal. They simply aren't and I'm no SAW guy.

A Cheetah wont turn well much over 62 mph. Same handling characteristics as an AM Sprintcat since it's very nearly an identical bottom. It doesn't turn quite as crisp as the Sprint though. Never quite figured out why that was. The Cheetah tends to nose in where the Sprint doesn't. You can go faster but you have to slow down a tick to make the turn. That's only if you nailed the start and are leading. If your chasing you get to run in crap water. By the 4th lap it's ocean racing. Now you're getting waves coming at you from every direction. Here's where the real skill takes over. Pucker factor 5. Weeeeeeeeeeeee! I think this is what Larry was talking about.

90 mph oval cat? Enjoy that first ripple and bring a diver. You'll need him to find the parts.

[Bduncan]

boat ran 88 with single.

[Bduncan]

Here is the single cheetah on 7s just screwing around. it turns just fine.

http://youtu.be/FVcAE5S_1jU

[T.S.Davis]

it turns just fine.

Looked like you slowed to turn. Which is what I said. You can't turn at 65+.

You asked how a 90 mph cat could ever lose a heat. I explained that the Cheetah has it's limitations by sharing my experience with it. That wasn't an opinion. I've raced it. That's not enough for ya though because of your heat racing experience and level of expertise........I guess.

One boat by itself on a glass pond with no buoy doesn't necessarily display a boats ability to handle a turn in traffic at speed in a heat. The thing was designed to be an oval cat from inception. I know this to be true because the first one out of the mold came to MI. It's pretty decent on 4s at our around 55. 6s it gets a little less predictable. That's on an oval, in traffic, yada yada yada.

Are we really doing this? Ken was right. The level of expertise possessed right out of the gates on here has reached new heights of late. I hope I never get good enough to stop listening to those with more experience than me. I've caught myself on race days trying to listen to pointers from guys not even talking to me. Buass says "raise that strut 1/64"" I just do it.