100 MPH Traxxas Villain?

[oldude]

Is it possible to get to 100 mph with a Traxxas villain? I have a guy who is asking me to install a 180 Amp ESC and 2 5S lipo's to get as fast as this will allow. I don't think the motor/prop combination in the boat will handle this amount of power (Traxxas say not more than 6S)
The question is - what motor can I use with the 37V batteries - and what prop - and if he doesn't get to 100MPH as long as he has some reliability - the problem will be solved - even if it is only temporarily https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/.../confused2.gif

[RaceMechaniX]

How do i put this politely Uh no unless we are talking scale mph. Crash that boat anywhere above 60 and kiss it goodbye. 100 mph is just not feasible with that hull. The twin out drives are nowhere near capable.

[pcressey]

You sure you aren't speaking of the Spartan?

[siberianhusky]

Unfortunately the only way that hull will get anywhere near the speeds this guy wants is in the car on the way to the pond!
The hull is not designed for those speeds nor anywhere near the strength required.
Remember crashing at those speeds is just like bouncing it down a concrete road at the same speed.

[Fluid]

The question is - what motor can I use with the 37V batteries - and what prop - and if he doesn't get to 100MPH as long as he has some reliability - the problem will be solved - even if it is only temporarily.

Spartan or Villian, if he wants high speed and reliability then he is out of luck. Even the stock Villian setup is marginal reliability-wise in the long run. Increase the power level and watch out for broken drive parts flying everywhere. Forget the Villian entirely.

Your "guy" will not get to 100 mph in any FE mono - no one else in the world has with repeatability no matter how much $$$ they spend. Crash damage aside, running 10S in a Spartan with a Neu 1527/1Y motor, a 200+ amp ESC and an x648 prop may theoretically get him into the 80s - which is hella fast for any mono. If he wants to go 100 mph then he needs either a cat or a hydro. I've watched 4S riggers and 6S cats break 100 mph through official timing traps (not GPS speeds)....when rigged and driven by experts.


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[Southwest]

......

[gsbuickman]

Sorry, I love the Villan's but anything over 50mph is nuts. Its like trying to control the 300mph pikes peak escudo on Gran Turismo. Come spring thaw I can finally see what my Villain will do with the new Hpi GT 550's on 4s & 5s with bearing supported x447's.... .

[steveo]

Anybody that has gone fast in a villian has ripped out the drivetrain for a single motor setup which mean cutting the hull to reveal the inside v to install new parts. I my self did this mod and it ran way better than stock, major hull reinforcement especially the hull seem blue printing of the bottom and transom work to get harware to fit.nothing wrong with having the fastest villian, 70mph might be obtainable

[gsbuickman]

The coolness of having a villain is the having a boat that was designed in 1987' with dual counter rotating drives outback. It was way ahead of its time. If you gut it for a single setup, you no longer have avilain. You end up with just another fe mono.

You can run 4x8x3mm Boca bearings to support the 3/16 drive shafts & the outdrives, but your stuck with nylon drive gears because no one makes factory diameter steel spurgears with a 3/16 bore anymore.

You can upgrade to 5mm driveshafts, which will increase rotting mass, but you can get 5x8x3mm bearings to suppor them, along with steel drive gears in factory gearing all for $50. I would love to take a set of outdrives to a machine shop & have them milled out of aluminum. That would be awesome...

[oldude]

How do i put this politely Uh no unless we are talking scale mph. Crash that boat anywhere above 60 and kiss it goodbye. 100 mph is just not feasible with that hull. The twin out drives are nowhere near capable.

Hi RaceMechanix,

Thanks for your comments. We have now gotten to the point where the boat will be upgraded to the Spartan - but the ideal is still to go as fast as possible - and trying for 100MPH is still a goal. Otherwise - what is the best that we can do - and what motor and prop combinations will work best with 37v and a 180amp esc?

Thanks

[gsbuickman]

??, the villain will be upgraded to the spartan ?. 10s on a 180a ESC in the villain is severe overkill. I am running 4s & 5s in my new villain.
I put a pair of Johnson 550's with bearing supported driveshafts and outdrives spinning s&b X447's. I expect she'll be in the 40mph range. Fast enough to be a lot of fun :-) .

If you really want to light the wick on a villain, but still keep the outdrives, you need to upgrade the drive system to 5mm, then have the outdrives milled out of aluminum, then it'll handle brushless alright. Problem is keeping it on the water and not airborne. .

[RaceMechaniX]

Oldude,
This is a round peg in a square hole. If this was remotely realistic I would say so, but that hull and driveline and just not capable of those speeds. The Spartan would be a much better platform to start from, but still is very limitied. 80+mph monos are practically single point hydros at these speeds and require very specific power systems and hardware. They also need to be bulletproof on the construction as crashes will be frequent trying to achieve those speeds.

Leave the Villian as a play boat and start with a better hull.

Tyler

[oldude]

Is it possible to get to 100 mph with a Traxxas villain? I have a guy who is asking me to install a 180 Amp ESC and 2 5S lipo's to get as fast as this will allow. I don't think the motor/prop combination in the boat will handle this amount of power (Traxxas say not more than 6S)
The question is - what motor can I use with the 37V batteries - and what prop - and if he doesn't get to 100MPH as long as he has some reliability - the problem will be solved - even if it is only temporarily https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/.../confused2.gif

OK- so we now have a situation where the guy will replace the boat and get a Spartan instead. In the meantime we still have a 180amp ESC and 2 X 5 cell LiPos that will provide and hopefully manage the power. We get back to the question of what motor and prop combination should be installed. I don't think the original Traxxas motor will survive the 37V onslaught and the prop probably won't give the sort of speed that we are trying to get to?https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...cons/icon5.png

[Heaving Earth]

Dude, get a rtr and leave it alone until you learn this stuff


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[Heaving Earth]

10s on 180a esc = fried electronics


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[oldude]

Dude, get a rtr and leave it alone until you learn this stuff


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HI , and thanks for the realistic response. What I have been presented with now is a Spartan with a fried Castle Creations ESC, and in replacement a 180Amp Turnigy ESC, 2 5s LiPo's and a request to fit this - and make the boat go at 100MPH. Logic says this is not going to happen - but given that I work in a hobby shop - and we pride ourselves on the level of service that we offer - I am trying to get to a realistic response - and if necessary a justification for not fitting the equipment that was supplied. The way I see it is that 37V will fry the electronics and Motor - and 18V at 5 amps will do the same because of increasing heat in the length of the run. Qhat I am really trying top find out - is what are the alternates - and how should I deal with the problem?

Please help

[Fluid]

10s on 180a esc = fried electronics...

I do not understand why some folks seem to believe that a high voltage setup requires more amps than a low voltage one. The opposite is actually true. The fastest R/C boat in the world used a 170 amp controller. My 10S race boats (41"+) seldom exceed 150 amps average draw and they are very competitive. That's 7 horsepower. My 4S race boats will often average 180-200 amps to be competitive. A small hull like either Traxxas will not need even that much power to exceed 80 mph - if the hull could be kept on the water at that speed. Headroom is always good, but a 300 amp controller is simply not needed for the OP's boat.

Tyler knows what he is talking about, he has some very fast small monos. Your customer will not get to 100 mph in any mono - he doesn't have the experience or skills to do so now. No one on earth has gone that fast in a mono with repeatability, your customer has to understand that. A better goal is 70 mph in a small mono, reasonably easy to achieve compared to 100 mph. One of the DeltaForce hulls could do this if set up perfectly, but your customer will need to start slow. Even a 50 mph mono seems fast to anyone who has not seen a 70 mph mono run. A 6S or 8S setup spinning around 35,000 rpm loaded would be a good choice in a hull around 36" without breaking the bank. 70+ mph is an achievable goal in a good hull.


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[martin]

HI , and thanks for the realistic response. What I have been presented with now is a Spartan with a fried Castle Creations ESC, and in replacement a 180Amp Turnigy ESC, 2 5s LiPo's and a request to fit this - and make the boat go at 100MPH. Logic says this is not going to happen - but given that I work in a hobby shop - and we pride ourselves on the level of service that we offer - I am trying to get to a realistic response - and if necessary a justification for not fitting the equipment that was supplied. The way I see it is that 37V will fry the electronics and Motor - and 18V at 5 amps will do the same because of increasing heat in the length of the run. Qhat I am really trying top find out - is what are the alternates - and how should I deal with the problem?

Please help

The T180esc is up to 6s max.

[Heaving Earth]

The T180esc is up to 6s max.

This is what I meant in my earlier post.
I dunno anyone who has run 10s on one of these things. I've seen 8s and a fire with one tho.

To the op, these guys on here know what they're talking about. 100 mph ain't gonna happen. You need to understand this. You have a plastic hull to start with.

The realistic answer is, you will not get 100. In fact, you will probably end up hookin this guy up with a boat that will not stay together long, then who is he gonna come looking for?
Don't be unrealistic, if you want to build this guy a nice boat, listen to the guys on here, and build him something that will perform and last.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

I think folks are thinking too inside the box. It is possible to get some incredible speeds out of that boat if someone did the extensive work it would take to hold her together.
If someone was to line the inside with say Kevlar, glass, or heavy carbon, bolted on some stout hardware, reconfigured the drive system, electronics, and motor mount they could end up with something that will exceed 60-70 without dissentigrating. as far as how it handles at those speeds has yet to be seen..

[Heaving Earth]

Yeah, at what cost? Spend a thousand bux on a boat that could be built for half the money.
I don't get it.

Oldude, good luck with whatever you choose to do. I can see this is gonna turn into a debate so I'm out.
Later man


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[T.S.Davis]

100 MPH with a mono. That's black magic right there. Even the guys that are serious about achieving maximum speeds haven't been able to get there. I'm not sure I've heard of anyone trying. You would need a perfect shape as nothing is in the water but a wiff of rudder and one propeller blade. So aerodynamic perfection would be required. My opinion at least.

Plastic hulls at 100? After the boat blows off and then re-enters the water it will explode scattering parts for the better part of 150 ft. Even the best built boats are not happy after a tumble at that kind of speed. A plastic boat would be a spectacular debris field. Remember the intro to the 6 million dollar man tv shows? Like that but with water everywhere.

Make sure there's nobody around when you run that.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

100mph probably not, but possible. 60-70+? All day.
It wouldn't cost a fortune to fabricate hardware, and line the inside of that boat with a composite material.
Blueprint the bottom, etc. Sorry guys, but I've seen some extraordinary things accomplished with determination.
I personally enjoy seeing folks believe in their project. I get gratification from the way a feat like that can fuel a boater.
Even if it explodes at 80, the guy will be HOOKED on our sport. 100mph is a SERIOUS long shot, but he can Definitely get that thing going some insane speeds with a lot of work, trial, and error.

Have a great new year!

[properchopper]

100mph with a Spartan is not a very realistic goal no matter how you slice it. It was designed as an attractive price-accessible fun runner to go mid-high forty mph and when upvolted to 6S a claimed 55mph. It's a plastic hull which has been known in stock form to come apart at just those speeds. I'd strongly recommend re-reading Terry's post paying particular attention to this : "Plastic hulls at 100? After the boat blows off and then re-enters the water it will explode scattering parts for the better part of 150 ft. ......A plastic boat would be a spectacular debris field"

A fairly small cadre of world-class racers can build and pilot boats that can reach or exceed 100 mph but few will attempt this with mono hulls. Even with the more suitable Cat and Hydro boats, getting there has some charming trial runs, most all of which preceded the record run : https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...21813569&saved

It's also important to mention that as speeds increase to the realm under discussion here that there needs to be optimum water and wind conditions and a radio capable of enough range to get the boat far away enough to provide run-up and rundown space. FLAT water and near-zero wind is a must and even so, many entertaining aerobatic episodes are pretty much guaranteed, as displayed in the above video. Even the best custom constructed dedicated race boats don't often walk away unscathed from these episodes. Sometimes "things" get in the way :

DSC05248.JPG

I understand your dilemma; you work in a hobby shop and want to satisfy a customer. Best to explain to your custy the reality of the situation and explain that in order to go 100 mph one needs to obtain and rig equipment that is far, far beyond the realm of hobby-grade items. Might even show your guy this thread. Many posters here are the ones that hold the top official speed records in sanctioned time trials which were obtained with years and years of experience and rather outlandish expense.

[mitchesx]

I'm aware of one person to go 100 mph with an electric mono. It was a gas mono made by Performance Unlimited, called the Raptor, converted to electric, with an electric hatch fabricated. This was over on Jims RC Boat dock a while ago. Below is a copy of the posted text, and hopefully I can copy the Youtube link as well. This was a specially designed hull, reinforced and setup just for this very purpose.

Ralf Moser running the International SAW 2013 - Mosernator

The fast run is at the 2 minute mark on the video and the next run he did he was able to back it up.
He is now testing and tuning for the 115 mph and beyond.
It just shows what the Raptor is capable of and is still stable going into the wind at those speeds.
Congratulations Ralf on your success.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=5UgzAMXlDtI

[properchopper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=5UgzAMXlDtI

The video nicely reinforces the concept that to build and put all your money into such a fast boat you have to make sacrifices to your clothing budget (see 2:21 in the vid)

[RaceMechaniX]

I'm aware of one person to go 100 mph with an electric mono. It was a gas mono made by Performance Unlimited, called the Raptor, converted to electric, with an electric hatch fabricated. This was over on Jims RC Boat dock a while ago. Below is a copy of the posted text, and hopefully I can copy the Youtube link as well. This was a specially designed hull, reinforced and setup just for this very purpose.

Ralf Moser running the International SAW 2013 - Mosernator

The fast run is at the 2 minute mark on the video and the next run he did he was able to back it up.
He is now testing and tuning for the 115 mph and beyond.
It just shows what the Raptor is capable of and is still stable going into the wind at those speeds.
Congratulations Ralf on your success.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=5UgzAMXlDtI

Yeah, I believe Ralf is the first official mono over a hundred mph at a sanctioned event. A little background info, he was using a $5k power system and had reinforcements appropriate for these speeds.

Jerry @ Seaducer boats along with Mark F and Doug Smock have also come very close to the century mark, but these are respective experts and have been working at these targets for years.

[properchopper]

Mark F's T-Mono 87mph pass :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1mnA4EvJfc

IIRC the gremlins prevented further runs

[T.S.Davis]

In stock form the Spartan can not go 100. I've run one over 50 and you can feel it twisting and chasing the resulting hook created. You could reinforce it but at some point you end up fixing so many things you start to question your sanity.

Pete from Lou's Fast Electrics many moons ago worked a Traxxas Villian to death. Did everything shy of molding the hull and laying one up in glass. Maxed out at 58 I think. He would have been many hours of labor ahead to have started with something light years ahead in design. That's even more true today with all the options available.

Seaducer is a prime example. Maybe a 39" Delta. Even a scratch built Wildthing built with 1/8" stringers would be a better choice to chase that 100 mph mark. Heyy..........maybe a Wildthing with no strakes. hmmmmm.

Last time I stuffed an ABS hull over 50 it opened up like a clam shell. Tore at the seems. They were glassed but clearly not well.

[photohoward1]

I think this guy is just yanking all your chains. Has to be. This is the most entertaining thread on offshore.