Swordfish 300 Pro+ ***Sent back for warranty repair to China!*** Disappointed***

[photohoward1]

***THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY A KNOCK ON STEVE***


As the title says. I purchased a Swordfish 300 Pro+ from Steve this summer. (Steve warranties them for 30 days then off to China) I ran it with a Neu/2230/1y. on 10s/....I run it hard. Well it died. I could not get the Data off of it so I sent it back to China. 2 weeks later I get an email that they got the Data of of it and were removing the coating from it. 2 weeks later I get this reply.

[I]From: Michelle <michellefuture67@gmail.com>
To: 'howard tucker' <h-tucker@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 4:57 AM
Subject: Fwd: Swordfish 300 pro+

Hello Mr. Howard Tucker,

Good day.
Sorry for late response.
We have finished check to the 300A Pro Plus ESC. As what the data logger shows, ESC was loaded hard in previous running, the peak current was almost 307amp, and ESC heated much. When open it and remove the glues here, ESC inside was damaged seriously, many electronic components were damaged.
In this condition, not only to change the damaged electronic components with new ones but also needs to change a new circuit board, so that it can bear the high power as it will.
Therefore, the repair cost is a bit expensive, needs 153USD.
Please keep me know if you accept the repair cost?

Best regards,
Michelle
Chongqing HIFEI Technology Ltd.
www.hifei.com
Skype:hifei-michelle

This is my reply to them: So what does everyone think?

Let me understand this. Under Warranty right? Max amps 307. (unit claimed burst rate of 380amps.) Unit claims 100 celsius max. I hit 91 Celsius. Seems within specs to me.
So I ran it hard. That is why I bought it. I shouldn't have to pay anything. How about just shipping me another unit that works?
BTW I will post this on public forums. I think you should honor your Warranties.
Please do the right thing. I will report my satisfaction or dissatisfaction on the forums. All of them.

Howard Tucker

[LiPo Power]

I feel sorry for you friend but here is my opinion.
So after reading this very unique English I have a feeling you are screwed...
In this case IMO they will not replace it and they are using the peak current as warranty violation...
Remember, their 380 amps are our 240 or so if you lucky.
Or the other choice is for me and you to go there and pay them a visit..... :-)
I was once there with HK aquastar 240....Lost the game, pay the shipping just to learn I was nowhere....

[photohoward1]

I feel sorry for you friend but here is my opinion.
So after reading this very unique English I have a feeling you are screwed...
In this case IMO they will not replace it and they are using the peak current as warranty violation...
Remember, their 380 amps are our 240 or so if you lucky.
Or the other choice is for me and you to go there and pay them a visit..... :-)
I was once there with HK aquastar 240....Lost the game, pay the shipping just to learn I was nowhere....

I hope that is what forums are for. Just keeping the world updated on the policy.

[LiPo Power]

Did you get their respond on this yet?

Let me understand this. Under Warranty right? Max amps 307. (unit claimed burst rate of 380amps.) Unit claims 100 celsius max. I hit 91 Celsius. Seems within specs to me.
So I ran it hard. That is why I bought it. I shouldn't have to pay anything. How about just shipping me another unit that works?
BTW I will post this on public forums. I think you should honor your Warranties.
Please do the right thing. I will report my satisfaction or dissatisfaction on the forums. All of them.

[oscarel]

I got the same response from them. While running one of the motor wires unsoldered. They claimed where I coupled the wires together MAY have contacted the case, which would have nothing to do with the failure. But there was no signs of arching. And I'm also without an ESC that was run well within specs.

[photohoward1]

No wiring mistakes made. I have to wait till morning for a response. I wonder if Steve had any say as a customer of there's?

[Southwest]

I had to send back a esc to Washington state ( HK ). The answer was , where's the instructions? I sent the instructions with esc in same package. They received the esc but no instructions came with it , so no refund will be sent to you, sorry. Same old answer I've read on many forums!

[kfxguy]

Sounds like im not getting that swordfish esc I was looking at. The most durable esc I've run so far is a mamba monster 2 car esc converted to water cool. It barely gets warm no matter what I throw at it. Its completely waterproof. Submerged it several times.

[photohoward1]

What do the instructions have to do with it? We need to post all this on public forums. If they don't hold to the warranty polices maybe we can force them to.

I had to send back a esc to Washington state ( HK ). The answer was , where's the instructions? I sent the instructions with esc in same package. They received the esc but no instructions came with it , so no refund will be sent to you, sorry. Same old answer I've read on many forums!

[ray schrauwen]

Not good, I hope they step it up some....

[iridebikes247]

pretty easy to rework everything they said to prove you did nothing wrong.

1. 91 celsius, within limits and also if heat was a problem the thermal protection should have kicked in. it didn't therefore the esc is at fault.

2. 307 amps. on the website in the specs it lists 300a constant, 380 surge. Is surge defined as a 5 second time constraint that the esc can handle 380 amps? I bet that motor pulled 307 for a second or two if that then dropped. Clearly within their definition of "surge".

--The data logging numbers reflect then the escs true limit, and the specifications listed on the website aren't accurate? I'm lost. Please let me know I'm willing to pay for shipping and inspection of $70 realistically but anything else seems outside of the warranty.

I'd send another email like this see what they say. worst comes to worst you could pay it then sell the esc on here as a refurbished hifei for $180 bucks buy a new one and lose $100 bucks total. If you're done with hifei I'd go with the modelbaupirate 300a esc or perhaps an atos formel.

[Southwest]

Howard, the esc didn't work and I emailed them and they said, send it back to Washington state ( HK ) with instructions of which I did. I never received a refund or an email regarding the esc again. Don't go jumping on me, just telling what happened to me about the esc. Steve had nothing to do with sale! Maybe we'll have to go to the European market place from now on! I'm a average rc boater with a champague taste on a beer income!

[jaike5]

Hi Howard, I-Care has access to new sch. 40/160 and 300's . as well as repairs
Cheers, Jay.

[photohoward1]

I wasn't jumping on you I was jumping on them. Weather the instructions were sent or not has nothing to do with warranty. I hold Steve in High regard. I would not want his issues with these Chinese vendors.

Howard, the esc didn't work and I emailed them and they said, send it back to Washington state ( HK ) with instructions of which I did. I never received a refund or an email regarding the esc again. Don't go jumping on me, just telling what happened to me about the esc. Steve had nothing to do with sale! Maybe we'll have to go to the European market place from now on! I'm a average rc boater with a champague taste on a beer income!

Mike: Basically that is the email I sent. So far no response. Then again it is Saturday there I think.

[photohoward1]

Jay, I thought they were out of Business? Do you know if they can still be sent back to Germany for repair?
BTW: fut-xxl-40.334WK, splash proof, water cooling $963.00 330/440 A 3 - 14 L

[T.S.Davis]

Howard........you'd pay it. You wouldn't want too but you'd do it if you could rely on it like the old bullet resistant 40/160's. Even when you did manage to wound one they rarely went crispy critter. You just sent it, paid for the repair, and they usually came back better than new. They even told you what they thought you were doing wrong so you would stop doing it.

It's way off on a tangent and worthy of a fresh thread but what happened to the designs and tech developed by Schulze? You would think the tech and design could be sold to someone willing to produce it somewhere. Maybe even here in the states. Rather than just flushing the company into nothing they could get something out of it. Must be some business thing that's over my head.

[photohoward1]

They might be back in business. They do have a new web site. IDK. You're right though on Bullet proof. I still have four 40/160's and a small 150 amper....

[/QUOTE]It's way off on a tangent and worthy of a fresh thread but what happened to the designs and tech developed by Schulze? You would think the tech and design could be sold to someone willing to produce it somewhere. Maybe even here in the states. Rather than just flushing the company into nothing they could get something out of it. Must be some business thing that's over my head.[/QUOTE]

[photohoward1]

Found it!!!

http://www.matthias-schulze-elektronik.de/

[T.S.Davis]

Howard, there is also the big MGM (TMM 40063-3 for Race Boats X2-SERIES) I just don't personally know anyone that's run or seen one. I know their smaller units are high quality. It's an awful lot of money to spend on an unknown though. Very nice looking unit for what ever that's worth.

I have three beast I'm running at the nats. Two of them are getting old school Castle HV and one gets an ICE200hv. Just not sure that's enough. Don't really have a great alternative at the moment.

[keithbradley]

Sounds like im not getting that swordfish esc I was looking at. The most durable esc I've run so far is a mamba monster 2 car esc converted to water cool. It barely gets warm no matter what I throw at it. Its completely waterproof. Submerged it several times.

The SF300 is by far more capable than anything castle offers. There really isn't an ESC in this price range that compares. If you want something that can handle that kind of power and have a better warranty, prepare to pay for it.

I think that's part of the problem. A lot of these Chinese companies have profit margins that are so low (and the retail profit margins are usually low as well), they can't afford to warranty items in total-loss situations. It's a double edged sword. We want products that perform at a high level and the service to match, but nobody wants to pay $1000 for an ESC with these qualities when they can buy something almost as good for less than a third of that.

MGM just changed the way they sell ESCs. They sell them with a 3 year warranty option, and a more expensive model with a 5 year warranty option. That's probably the only place I know of that has an ESC capable of big power and a warranty to back it up. Hifei will warranty ESCs when they are repairable, but it's tougher to get them to replace them for free if the ESC is a total loss. To me this is just something that we have to accept if we want 15,000watt ESCs at $300.

In the end, we vote with our dollars. If people wanted to pay $1k for a better ESC, I have no doubt that Steve would be willing to sell them.

Howard: I totally understand why you're upset. I'm not disagreeing with you at all, just sharing what I know.

[T.S.Davis]

That's a pretty good point Keith. Pay 1k for something built like the space shuttle or buy 3 at 300 and accept that you are going to injure one or two from time to time. Cheap has a price too.

[Steven Vaccaro]

the best avenue is to contact me when there are problems like this. That way I can jump in the middle. From the data it looks like you should be getting a free repair. Im on this.

[T.S.Davis]

the best avenue is to contact me when there are problems like this. That way I can jump in the middle. From the data it looks like you should be getting a free repair. Im on this.

......and this is why Steven is the best.

[LiPo Power]

That is wicked...

[Doug Smock]

the best avenue is to contact me when there are problems like this. That way I can jump in the middle. From the data it looks like you should be getting a free repair. Im on this.

Awesome!

[jaike5]

Howard, I returned a 40/160 for repair in April at that time I was offered a 40/160 for 525.00 all in. I offered 400.00 they declined. I still had my 40/160 repaired and it was 110.00 all in. The amount of money we all pile into these boats to save 150,00 for cheap junk and a pile of grieve , where is the saving ??? I too have 4, 40/160's and they are worth every penny. Maybe Steve can put sch. back on the map and we can get rid of the sub standard equipment . we have the power, we have the cash, cash is king, lets put these jokers in there place, at the bottom of the food chain...... Sorry had a daydream their!!
Cheers, Jay. race on

[oscarel]

the best avenue is to contact me when there are problems like this. That way I can jump in the middle. From the data it looks like you should be getting a free repair. Im on this.

Can you ask them about mine as well?

[kevinpratt823]

I can't even begin to describe the very lengthy interaction I had trying to get a Warranty from them on a 1 week old 240HV pro+ bought from KBB. It smoked on the very first run, in a setup that previously maxed out at 237 amps, well within their claimed burst rating. Regaurdless of the fact that I continuosly pointed out the flaw in thier software that doesn't allow it to properly calibrate to my Spektrum TX with travel at 100%, therefore only maxing at 82% throttle, likely creating excessive heat. This is what I got in a nutshell, even with Steven onboard for the discussion(thank you).......

"Hello Kevin,

Sorry for my late response.

Each ESC is tested for at least 4 times under load and passes QC check by equipment in our factory, so less possibility of defect cases.
From the damage degree, the ESC once worked very hard and rather hot so that the motor cables were moved away and the PCB was broken.

Normally we would check ESC by tools and decide if it is covered under warranty or not, but as this Pro+ 240A was damaged so seriously that cannot be checked by tools.
As manufacturer, we very hope to provide best service as we can, but as the Pro+ 240A is made with high cost, so we cannot provide a new replacement at free for it is damaged without clear reason. We would afford some discount for new replacement and you can get one from dealer at discount price. Do you agree with this?"

Originally I said I absolutely do not agree with this, then explained very fully why, but eventually, I ended up paying about half for a replacement anyway, very dissapointing from a customer/product support standpoint.

[oscarel]

I seriously think these enclosed ESC's are getting too hot, no way to dissipate heat except contact with the cooling plates. They offered me a replacement as well for $180 I believe, but after paying for shipping both ways and an additional $180 without a guarantee it would work and without much warranty support I replaced it with an MGM.

[RaceMechaniX]

Guys,

To be brutally honest the old adage holds true: "you get what you pay for". I do not mean to target the OP, but to point the finger at all of us. We all know the marketing hype is complete BS and the ratings many of the companies use are at perfect conditions of 25C with bountiful cooling and with the most rigid power supplies imaginable. Look at the spec sheet for a typical FET and you will see the performance drop off significantly with temperature. Compound this with tightly packaged FETS, uneven cooling, inadequate ripple current capability and inconsistent quality. Technically their are a half a dozen reasons why the ESC's should fail.

Companies like MGM, Schulze, Jeti, Kontronik and YGE among others do their research before a production run and look at the details (cooling, FET spacing, board inductance, copper trace quality, capacitance, contact pressure, and the list goes on). They now have better onboard health checks coupled with safeties to prevent failures the majority of failures we see. Yes it does cap the performance, but I rarely hear of a MGM or newer Schulze just burning up without cause.

The gold standard may be the older 40.160 with simple controls, well spaced FET's, heavy copper PCB's and reasonable ratings. Compare this to any of the low cost ESC's and difference should be obvious. There are exceptions like the $100 T180 which continue to perform great within its limits.

The warranties most hobby ESC companies offer cover 90% of modelers probably with the exception of boaters who are able to run at high loads with larger capacity batteries compared to planes, helis and cars. Ever notice the "*for 2 minutes" or "*one battery pack"? It's there in the fine print as many of the ESC's can handle short bursts of high currents, but must see a lower duty cycle overall before the components reach a thermal failure point.

I do believe companies should honor their warranties within reason. That said many of us, myself included go way beyond what is reasonable and believe we are entitled to a full replacement.

I can't emphasize this enough "invest in quality the first time". Otherwise you assume the risks of low cost components. I'll get off my pulpit now. I am just a little fired up after working on a 120kW drive today trying to dissipate 15kW worth of heat from an area no larger than one side of a 8.5"x11" sheet of paper.

TG