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Thread: UL-1 motors old and new, very different

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray schrauwen View Post
    That feel may mean something if it's made overseas but, with Neu motors I know they changed something but, not lower magnet strength that would lead me to the same question.

    I have a 1521 in my hand I just got in the mail from Chilli and it is not nearly as difficult to turn the shaft by hand as the other one I had made a few years earlier. Am I worried, no because it's a Neu motor and I know I can trust them. With some stuff from overseas, I dunno what to trust??
    I talked to Neu quite some time ago about the difference in hand-cogging resistance between early and later production. They explained that (I'm counting on remembering accurately what they said but I may have this somewhat foggy) there was a production change that twisted the stator to have less low rpm cogging to help certain applications like helis.
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
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  2. #32
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    I agree with Terry.

    Yes Tony, I remember the same thing and we have similar retention or lack of, lol, age...
    Nortavlag Bulc

  3. #33
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    Well, this is just my opinion. If you look at the old motor vs the newer one, the insulation on the wires are differant. The old looks like a normal reddish motor wire varnish. The newer ones the wire is almost kinda silvery. Also and this might be the problem, the stack with windings are aproxamatly 3/16 of an inch closer to the pto side of the can. If the rotors are the same then they are not running centered in the windings.

  4. #34
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    Nice test on the EDF 1900kv 3659 motor from HK:
    Nortavlag Bulc

  5. #35
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    o.k. in the first post of this thread you can see if you're not blind that AQ changed the motor from a can packed with windings to something obviouly less robust. Now, I'm told by Rayzerdesigns that they changed it for the better recenty. Has AQ issued a new part number so someone that would like to try one GETS THE RIGHT ONE!?

    Almost seems like a knee jerk reaction by AQ but, I know being a large corp. it takes time. So who carries the new version and is there a new part# so we can tell the difference?
    Nortavlag Bulc

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray schrauwen View Post
    o.k. in the first post of this thread you can see if you're not blind that AQ changed the motor from a can packed with windings to something obviouly less robust. Now, I'm told by Rayzerdesigns that they changed it for the better recenty. Has AQ issued a new part number so someone that would like to try one GETS THE RIGHT ONE!?

    Almost seems like a knee jerk reaction by AQ but, I know being a large corp. it takes time. So who carries the new version and is there a new part# so we can tell the difference?
    Ray,

    I think the moral of the story here is the OEM made manufacturing and raw material alterations that WERE NOT communicated to the AQ group. Bottom line the OEM was trying to be "sneaky" and improve there bottom line. The alterations were discovered by the RACERS (very small percentage of motors sold) not the hobbyist's which instigated the process of investigation by AQ. Long story short, that investigation resulted in getting back to were we start. Grim stated this many months ago in the thread linked below:

    https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...913#post585913

    About part numbers: Fit, Form, and/or Function DIDN'T change so no new part number. It's my understanding the changes outlined in Grims post were implemented long ago and despite there being some very old stock on hobby shelves; the latest version should be readily available and has for awhile now.

    Later,
    Mike

  7. #37
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    Sorry, I didn't see that post. If it were made clearer, and was an actual announcement I'd have nothing to say. Now comes an apology to Darin in the other thread and a needed post deletion.

    I still don't know what vendor has the updated version. OSE has not made any change to it's decription so I have to assume his stock is old stock. That leaves AQ directly? Who else? I bought a couple new motors from Omni Models last spring before the nats for spare fuses, would their stock be old or new right now?? Guessing games I'm not fond of.

    If someone could post a picture of the new motor, the rear end that is to see the stack, I might invest in one but, trust isn't easy to give AQ at this time.
    Nortavlag Bulc

  8. #38
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    Neu started using skewed windings after 3-4 years of production, motors before the change were very notchy, typical of a 4 pole motor of good quality, those afterwards felt much less notchey like a cheap Chinese motor with poor magnets and huge airgap, but there was actually no net loss of magnet strength, it just spread it over a larger radius and was an upgrade for smoother running increasing the life of gearboxes, flexshafts and the like.

    I don't think it really matters what motors you spec, (as long as they are small enough to have reliable ESCs available that are capable of putting out more power than it is), folk will find the best of the offerings and push it to its limits, if you speced a similarly sized Neu 1409 or Lehner 1920 some would love that their quality motors would last forever, but it would not be long before someone propped up and gained some speed and everyone would have to do the same to remain competitive, before long they would be pushing their new motors to the limits, given a couple of years I am sure there would be blown motors again.

    The main differences would be the higher speed and price of the racing.

    There may be some greater parity as I'm sure the quality motors would be closer to each other in efficiency than the current crop, but on the other hand a single percentage of efficiency makes a lot more difference at 90% than it does at 80%, for example if a smallish 36mm motor with excellent cooling is capable of dissipating 200 watts of heat at 80% efficiency the maximum power is 1000W and at 81% it is 1053W a difference of 53W, but at 90% it is 2000W and at 91% it is 2222W a difference of 222W. That is over 4 times the difference in power for the same single percentage of extra efficiency, and even in percentage of output power it is still nearly double the difference, with 853W being 6.6% more than 800W, and 2022W being 12.3% more than 1800W, so to my mind the parity advantage is debatable.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

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