Battery setup 1P or 2P same Mah Please share your opinion

[Xcesive8]

Hi Guys

Boat : Radtek/Hpr 2.33m
Motors: Neu 2230 1y 725kv
Esc's: Schulze 40.334WK
Batterys : 12s setup each side

Im at the stage where the boat is complete and i just need to purchase batterys.
Ive been speaking with Mark on here about his Dinogys and had planned to buy packs off him.
I like what i hear about them so figure there the way to go..

I was going to buy 8 x 6s 6000Mah 65c packs
or even 6s 5000mah 65c packs not 100% yet
So 4 each side and obviously each pair in series to give me 12s 2P 10,000 - 12,000 Mah

Dinogy 5000mAh 6s 65C
Specifications:
•22.2V
•Max Charge Rate6C/36A
•Pack Weight 825
•Pack Size 54x48x160mm
So 8 x = 6.6kg
But have since found some packs from another reputable brand that i use in my Electric Helis that are now doing
6s 10,000mah 60c packs.
So i could just run 1P but still retain the same MAH.

Revolectrix 10000mAh 6S Lipo - Diamond Label -
Size: 104mm thick x 44mm W x 152mm L,
Weight: 1575 grams, Ratings: 60C. Cont. 120C Burst. 6C Charge Rate
4x = 6.3kg

So my Questions
Is it pretty much the same deal?
Or is it just better to have power coming from 4packs as opposed to 2?
The wiring with the 1P setup will be alot shorter considering Schulze say to count every bit of wire from esc to cell tab.

:

Cheers

[iridebikes247]

I wouldn't run 1P in your boat. Each cell will be stressed less in the 2p setup. Also if a cell ever goes bad you're less likely to kill the other pack.

[gixx1k2]

2P gets my vote too.

[kevinpratt823]

Most likely the 10000 is just 2-5000's connected together at the factory.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[gixx1k2]

Most likely the 10000 is just 2-5000's connected together at the factory.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Probably is, just check and see before you buy.

[Fluid]

From an electrical standpoint it is usually better to run 1P if you have sufficient mAh capacity. There is half the wire needed between the pack and the ESC, reducing the ripple current and the resulting stress on the controller. However 1P may reduce your ability to obtain the best CG.




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[gixx1k2]

1P puts a lot more current load on the batteries and most don't like spending a fortune on batteries. When running 2P you can get away with running cheaper batteries. IMO that's a big factor in choosing.

[Xcesive8]

Ok so out off the above.
If I have sufficient mah it should be fine.
May be harder on packs, but if I get good packs with high C should be ok.
If in fact it is 2 5000 packs together it is wired as a pack as 6s 10,000 2p which is kinda the same thing I'm going to do but with less wiring.
Hmmm.. Thanks for your input, much appreciated. I'll have a think about which way ill go

[iridebikes247]

If they're using 2 5000 packs together, then I'd buy them. Less wiring as you said.

[Fluid]

1P puts a lot more current load on the batteries and most don't like spending a fortune on batteries. When running 2P you can get away with running cheaper batteries. IMO that's a big factor in choosing.

This simply isn't true. I have run 6S1S/6000 and 6S2P/3300x2 in the same boat and saw zero difference in performance or pack temperatures. Logging showed a lower ripple with 1P. The motor doesn't know the battery configuration, it places the same demands on the packs.


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[gixx1k2]

Wouldn't running 2P split the current load between the 2 packs?? Where when running 1P the current load is on just the 1 pack? Makes sense to me but then again I'm no expert.

[kevinpratt823]

Wouldn't running 2P split the current load between the 2 packs?? Where when running 1P the current load is on just the 1 pack? Makes sense to me but then again I'm no expert.

It's more about the total mah available from the configuration.

[jj2003]

From an electrical standpoint it is usually better to run 1P if you have sufficient mAh capacity. There is half the wire needed between the pack and the ESC, reducing the ripple current and the resulting stress on the controller. However 1P may reduce your ability to obtain the best CG.




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Fluid is 100% correct. The load is not determined by the batteries but by the motor. There is no motor or ESC which "see's" how many batteries you have in series or parallel, only how many in total. It cannot pull a determined amount of load from each individual battery to distribute the load. It only pulls the same load across all. Add in extra wiring and you introduce more resistance which increases ripple effect, in turn posing a threat of ESC or motor damage (i.e; overheating due to voltage spike's or amperage overload, hence the addition of cap bank's) Introducing 2p will not give you even distribution, only longer run time. However with such a large hull, 2p run on each motor CAN give you better weight distribution and a better CG. You may consider ballast if CG is a problem and you dont want to spend the cash on larger and better quality batteries such as Maxamps or Hyperion or Thunderpower.

[madmikepags]

if you read his post he means 1p 10,000mah or 2p 10,000mah the mah are the same just 1p or 2p, but there is no such thing as a 10,000mah cell so the comparison is irreleveant. Any 10,000 pack is internally paralleled

[jj2003]

If running in 2p you would have to keep the wire length's almost identical. The mah doesn't matter. In 2p your just increasing the mah (run time). If your wire's from the 2nd set of batteries are longer than the first pair, there is more resistance introduced and hence more load on the second set of batteries (they would run a bit hotter than the first pair, maybe not alot but you would feel, by touch, the difference or if you measured it with a IR temp reader, you would see it). Think of it like an extension cord. If you have a device that draws alot of amp's, the longer to cord is, the hotter it will get. If it's shorter the less load it produces. Test the theory for yourself. Plug in a shop vac with a short cord, run it for 10 minute's, and then do the same with a long cord. I'd bet money on it that you'll find the longer cord is hotter than the short cord. Vehicles that have a short starter lead cable pull less amps at the starter than vehicles with a long starter lead. I've seen many a vehicle's misdiagnosed with a bad starter( showing amp draw larger than 200 amps) when it turned out to be corrosion on the existing cable, despite the length. Although in general, a longer cable will show more amp draw. Can't describe it any better than that other than testing it on your own. Make no assumption's, your own field test's will draw your best conclusion. Mine clearly showed that if I wanted more run time, I increased the mah. If I wanted less draw but better speed's, 1p was the path I took. The craft was lighter but less stable on 1p but my speeds showed increases of almost 10mph over 2p. On 2p it was more stable but the load was higher and speeds were slower. Both runs were about 3 minutes using 6s1p 5000 mah 50c config and then 6s2p 5000 mah 50c.

[keithbradley]

Wow...what a confusing thread...plenty of misinformation.

Bottom line:
If both setups are the same capacity, and discharge at the same rate (comparatively live up to the C rating claims), you won't see a lot of difference between the two. The difference you will see will be related to the difference in cell quality and internal resistance, not the wiring. Two packs paralleled does not increase resistance due to wiring! In order to believe this, you would have to believe that larger gauge wire increases resistance over smaller gauge wire (which of course is not the case). Electrons will always follow the path of least resistance. Adding an extra path DOES NOT increase resistance, it lowers it...in the same way that adding lanes to a highway will decrease resistance in traffic flow and allow more traffic to travel down the road without increasing the rate at which it's traveling (rate would be voltage in this example). I'm not sure how anyone could assume that adding another route for electricity to flow would increase resistance...this is really simple stuff...if you think of it in simple terms, it makes perfect sense.

In the case of series connecting your lipos, you're not providing an alternate route for energy, you are adding to the path in which it has to travel. In this case, resistance is increased. These are the wires that you want to keep short. When you calculate wire length for your Schulze ESCs, do not count additional parallel wires. Only wire inside the pack for series connections, series connections between lipos, and the wire from pack(s) to ESC are relevant.

I would personally buy the 5000mah or 6000mah lipos, but not because I think one will have a distinct advantage over the other. I would do it this way because the packs are more versatile and can be used in other applications, and because in the event of a cell failure, there is less collateral damage (Only one 5000mah pack would have to be purchased, instead of an entire 10,000mah pack)

[nata2run]

Hey Ryan, True this is getting a bit confusing over all. Keith has a good point. We talk a lot, and I have an idea about your main concern. I also know that you don't want to push your gear to the limits. Its possible that the demand on power you need won't be too high compared to its potential. In other words, if you want to run "12s" per motor, you should do a test say with 12s 6000mah -8000mah as a minimum and do some logging to see what the system requires in Watts, amps or which ever way you want to log. How you get to 12s (6000mah and above) is entirely up to you. 8s pack plus a 4s pack or x2 6s packs or x4 6s packs (2 in series and then into parallel to make up 12s 2p at the required ma/h). Better would of cause be if the "single cells" are exactly the same so they discharge evenly at the same rate. The "C" rating and quality of packs will be more important when you require "more power" than a standard battery can deliver. The more "crazy" you go, the more the system demands, and the more you have to speculate how you setup the entire system. At 44.4v a standard Lipo should be able to deliver 5550W if rated at 25c (that's 12s 5000ma/h 25c) then you can work it out from there, at 12s 2p its 11000w and so on ... 12s 2p 5000ma/h at 50c should be able to deliver 22,000w. Again those are just numbers, and can be different if the packs are not up to it. Having packs capable of a burst discharge of 100c should be able to produce over 40,000w for a short period

[Xcesive8]

Hey All,

Thanks so much for coming in here and sharing all the info.
Even if there is mixed opinions, its good everyone gets to lay out there thoughts and hear one anothers ways of looking at it.
Much appreciated.

Kent your right, you know from us talking on the phone.
I dont want to flog the living daylight outa this big girl, just want all my Electronics to be of a high standard, to atleast lesson the chance of component failure..
I will be starting with small props 60mm's for first test.


Ryan