Preferred rc radio Futaba or Spektrum or ?

[Ken Haines]

LOL

Spent the first 10 years driving Toyotas. The next 10 years driving Chevrolet. Now its all Fords. Mixed in a couple foreign junkers along the way.

Now I drive the biggest baddest most expensive Futaba I can get my hands on. And I have no good explanation why.

Doug

Doug,
Just waiting for you to haul in that New "Biggest, Badest" Racing trailer next year !
Maybe we will see it in Michigan ?
I am sure it will be amazing when you finally take the leap.


I own Spektrum, Futaba, And Airtronics.
The waterproof MR 3000 receivers convinced me to go almost all Spektrum now.
Some cool features on that DX4S too. The capability to change servo speed is pretty
intriguing....not sure I have totally utilized it yet. The analog rate knob does enable
me to make changes during a race, at least in offshore where you can actually
use this fine tuning tool for an edge. The best thing for my forgetful mind is the
alarm that chimes when I leave the transmitter on. I am sure the other brands
will soon have these features too, but for now Spektrum DX4S is my radio of choice.
Ken
PS. I have no radio sponsorship

[T.S.Davis]

Just waiting for you to haul in that New "Biggest, Badest" Racing trailer next year !

Did you have a chat with my wife? I got the green light to buy one too.

[DPeterson]

Ken

Just waiting for you to haul in that New "Biggest, Badest" Racing trailer next year !
Maybe we will see it in Michigan ?
I am sure it will be amazing when you finally take the leap.

Terry

Did you have a chat with my wife? I got the green light to buy one too.

Thats good stuff Terry. Ken - I am planning on a nice one - but the bar you set will remain. :)

Just waiting for more sponsors. I got George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Alexander Hamilton, and Andrew Jackson on board. I working on lining up Ulysses S Grant, Benjamin Franklin, William McKinley and Grover Cleveland. LOL-Sponsors for toy boats.

Back to radios. My very first one was an Airtronics. Then for some reason went to Futaba and remained brand loyal. I still own all these 30 year old square box's.

Doug

[T.S.Davis]

My Airtronics is from right around 1983. So for me to speak ill of Airtronics isn't really fair. The grip is my only experience with their newer stuff. I've simply not spent any time with their modern tech. It is a touch pricey but don't we always say you get what you pay for? Cheap radios are only cheap if they don't fail and blast your boat into shore. Then the price goes up. Of course they don't all do that. Probably most don't. Plenty of "works perfectly" claims. That's fine. I just can't get my head around trying to save money on the very most important piece of the puzzle. Like buying that Ferrari and then putting little doughnut spare tires on it to save money. They put you in the wall. Did you save money?

If I do a trailer it will be a multi-purpose utility trailer to get to and from. It wont be a fancy palace with air or satellite TV like that lunatic from Florida. Although based on that example, maybe an extinguishing system is in order. Just for means of egress. Best installation I'll hope to never use.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

A lot of top drivers the world over run Airtronics in fact, THE fastest nitro SAW driver in the world runs it at Legg Lake Mark Grim and he's hitting over 120.
THE fastest car driver in the world raced for us up until this year Adam Drake. Ryan Cavalleri Races for us and he's a top 3 driver in the world.

Many of the top car drivers run Airtronics. I think one of the truest statements made on this thread is that you can't really go wrong with any radio these days. I see plenty of boat racers running Airtronics as well.
Airtronics has been selling radios long before I came along, so they don't need me to pitch radios on here. I don't need to convince a few people on here what the world already knows.
I could bash other radios as guys are doing Airtronics, but any outsider can look at this thread and see through it.

As the ad says "Airtronics get the advantage!" I don't know about you, but I'M gonna' keep getting the advantage

[raptor347]

Mark still runs his old Airtronics radios from the days when he was sponsored. All the new stuff he's paid for is Futaba. Just keeping the record strait.

Like I said, it's hard to buy a bad radio these days. I was sponsored by Airtronics for years and had very few problems.

If you're in this hobby long enough, you end up trying just about everything.

I started flying with an EK single stick 5 channel. My first surface radio was a brown box Futaba with a wheel.

Good equipment tends to sell itself.

[T.S.Davis]

.
I could bash other radios as guys are doing Airtronics, but any outsider can look at this thread and see through it.

Yes, fortunately guys on this forum are pretty bright and can see through BS.

[NativePaul]

Radios were one thing I was looking at at the worlds and I couldn't help noticing the diversity of radios in the very large and professional Chinese team, there were new radios, old 2.4ghz converted 40mhz radios, stick radios, wheel radios, air radios, surface radios, high end radios and low end radios but they did have one thing in common, all were running Futaba FASST in one form or another. That is a good enditement to my mind.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Yes, fortunately guys on this forum are pretty bright and can see through BS.

I think most of the guys on this forum see you contradicting my every post : )
Go enjoy something in your life. Its obvious my enthusiasm in this sport peturbs you. Im sorry you feel so bitter inside
I truly hope things get better for you. Otherwise you can continue and prove me right..

[Doug Smock]

Toy boats fellas. Please drive on with whichever radio you prefer.

Thanks in advance,

[T.S.Davis]

Not sure this was bashing on Airtronics or contradiction so I read back through my posts.

I said "I didn't like the way the Airtonics fit in my hand". I even admitted that my choosing based on the grip might be weird. You said try the M12. So I asked if you had it in CO. I remember carrying it back to you pit area once at the 10 nats after a retrieval or something. It happens. I remembered the grip. Still not quite bashing.

I asked how much difference in latency. You said "I've noticed this lag in response to be close to a second in some cases" If you're turning 15 second laps a 1 second lag works out to about 58 ft. Holy crap! I've not experienced anything like that with my Speky but I've also not driven with Airtronics lower latency to compare. Airtonics uses their latency as a marketing tool. I just wanted to know what the difference was. If it is truly important their should be numbers somewhere that we can compare. Futaba, Spektrum, Airtronics, maybe a Flysky side by side. To say "we have the lowest" they need to know the others. This isn't bashing it's simply a quest for knowledge.

As for bashing I even said this about myself.
"My Airtronics is from right around 1983. So for me to speak ill of Airtronics isn't really fair. The grip is my only experience with their newer stuff. I've simply not spent any time with their modern tech. It is a touch pricey but don't we always say you get what you pay for?"

I simply am ignorant where Airtronics is concerned. I couldn't really find any Airtronics bashing. Your posts actually did make me look at them closer so mission accomplished I suppose. It appears that they may actually be the shizznit. Especially with the addition of the a marine rx. They have everything that I like about Spektrum and maybe the low latency you described. They are pricey but if it's truly better you can't put a number on that. Futaba guys don't worry about the numbers. They believe in the product and pay a bit more to get it.

I pointed out that people are smart enough to recognize BS when they read it. Not sure how that's a contradiction. At least there were no abject fabrications in this thread. That's positive change.

[properchopper]

One specification I haven't heard addressed in this thread comes to mind (I found out about it while doing Helis -thanks to Wilmer} is something called GRANULARITY which, as I understand it, is the number of steps in the throttle channel (or other channel) pot. Turns out my el cheapo heli, in hover, would go UP or Down but there wasn't a throttle position that allowed an intermediate step between these two positions. Seems to me that more granularity in a radio's throttle channel would give more sensitive speed monitoring. No mention of this in radio specs. Thoughts ?

[Doug Smock]

My throttles have two positions Tony. ON and OFF.

That's what I like about the Spektrum. I can pull the trigger completely through the handle without damaging the radio. LOL

[properchopper]

My throttles have two positions Tony. ON and OFF.

Mine has three : ON, OFF, and OH SH*^ !

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Mine has three : ON, OFF, and OH SH*^ !

I'm not gonna' lie Tony, in the last like season and a half, you've REALLY gotten to know your stuff.
Before you used to talk about intermediate stuff, but now you bring up points that most overlook. Literally making lightbulbs pop up.
Great point about the throttle steps.

[properchopper]

I'm not gonna' lie Tony, in the last like season and a half, you've REALLY gotten to know your stuff.
Before you used to talk about intermediate stuff, but now you bring up points that most overlook. Literally making lightbulbs pop up.
Great point about the throttle steps.

Thanks Bro [blush]. If you remember, it was you that got me into helis, which led to my awareness of the granularity issue, which now leads back to this topic.

[grsboats]

Mine has three : ON, OFF, and OH SH*^ ! ....man you make me laugh....thanks... I'd forgotten this third part ..ehe!h...The true is that i'm also getting old and fast responses to my reactions could be a great improvement in my radio. Gill

[raptor347]

The number if input steps from the stick (or trigger, wheel etc) is one of the components of good control setup. Good resolution also require the mechanical assembly and geometry are up to the capability of the electronic link.

[Flying Scotsman]

Woops..made a mistake in editing, what follows is correct

[Flying Scotsman]

Wilmer, you are a beauty!.....at 65 years old my reactions are slow and I am lucky to get my boat back in one piece after one pass, but it is FUN.....By the way I use Spektrum as stated in a previous post on this thread and it suits my needs, as I tend to flip a lot(crappy driver) and waterproof means a lot to me.

Douggie

[Fast Guy]

I have a Futaba 4PL, a flashed FlySky GT3B and a Tactic that came with my UL1. The FlySky has the best range by a small margin and after being flashed to the latest firmware has the most features. I like to think the Futaba is better since I paid a lot more for it but most of my models have found their way to the FlySky because of the $7:50 receivers.

[T.S.Davis]

Well, I thought the latency question would get answered but it didn't.

So I did some digging. Best I can tell the Airtronics is indeed at least 5 times faster than the Spektrum. 1 millisecond versus 5.5 milliseconds. The grip on the M12 does look more appealing too.

What does that 4.5milliseconds mean though? Couldn't get my thick head around it so I did some math. Math is fun.

Imagine a boat traveling down the back straight at say 50mph.......

At 50mph you are covering water at 73.33333333333333 feet per second. The 4.5 millisecond difference translates to .0045 seconds

.0045 * 73.33333333333333 = .3299ft or 3.9588 inches. So at 50mpg your boat can travel an additional 4" before it responds to your input by using the Spektrum.

It's faster. 5 time faster. I think at least. They also have marine RX's now. I guess each of us has to decide if the difference is significant enough.

I couldn't find the data for Futaba. It has to be right in there somewhere. 2" difference? IDK

I might be better off spending the extra dough on some nice polarized sunglasses.

[siberianhusky]

http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/what_is_latency.shtml

interesting reading about latency, seems there is much more to it than a simple number according to this article. This guy takes it right down to the latency in the servo as well as how settings on the TX can effect it.
That Airtronics is a great radio BUT I believe there is some good hype going on there, lets say overall you can save 20ms in latency, takes 100-150 ms to blink, would take an exceptional human being to notice 20ms between seeing your boat do something, deciding on an action, performing that action and finally having the boat react...
Ya if I won the lottery I'd buy it, damn good radio, do I believe for a second that I would notice the difference, nope....LOL Usain Bolt has a reaction time of .15s

[Cooper]

I have a Futaba 4PL, a flashed FlySky GT3B and a Tactic that came with my UL1. The FlySky has the best range by a small margin and after being flashed to the latest firmware has the most features. I like to think the Futaba is better since I paid a lot more for it but most of my models have found their way to the FlySky because of the $7:50 receivers.

I've been having some range issues with my dx3 spectrum, I have a flysky that I might swap out and see if range picks up. I am hopeing that it doesn't because the $250 radio vs $50 will kinda be bittersweet. I am seriously considering the futaba (for range) but don't know if the fass or fasst is better suited for me. I'm not in need of much options just fail safe for the throttle and range. Only reason I'm having issues is in some saw boat where I need to make some long passes.

[T.S.Davis]

That reminds me. What's with the tiny wires every manufacturer uses on servos? Wouldn't "latency" be reduced by larger wires too? If time is the big deal why the tiny wires? IDK

They seem to all have different talking points to help move product. Each with their own view on what's important and what the difference maker is.

I noticed Futaba claims faster antenna switching. Supposed to be less potential loss of signal. They also claim 2x less minimum latency. Who knows what the heck that means.

The Spektrum claims to have a resolution of 4096. I think that's the granularity Tony mentioned. Couldn't find it on the other two. Speky also mentions the ergonomics.

Airtronics is keying on the latency it seems.

I would like to think customer service would be similar with the big 3. Although in truth I would prefer to just have a product that doesn't need service.

[properchopper]

Because I am uniquely unqualified to enter this discussion in any meaningful way (see points #1 and #2 below), just ignore what I'm about to say.

I think that this is all just a case of spec's one-upmanship. It leaves out the important issue of human adaptability. We all do it whether we are aware of it or not. Case in point : My old pick'em up had lots of play in the old steering box. I adapted and never noticed it or had a problem in the eight years of ownership. One time I loaned it to a Club Brother on a bike run. He drove it from Reno to Grass Valley and bitched about the loose steering upon arrival. He obviously hadn't adapted like I had. If your race car understeers you compensate and turn in sooner. I believe a certain Mr. B, who races 200mph pylon planes knows that you turn the controls well in advance of the next turn. We adapt.

All this spec comparison talk reminds me of my days in the sound reinforcement biz years ago. As tubes became transistors, claims of lower and lower THD became big selling points. An amplifier with .05% THD was supposed to be superior to one with .10 THD. Thing is, psychoacoustically, the human auditory mechanism can't discern differences in THD below 2.0% . What this means that you CAN'T HEAR the distortion in the .05% THD amp LESS than you CAN'T HEAR the distortion in the 1.0% amp.

I can't imagine that a better spec'd radio will make me a better racer, no matter how much I spend. The key point that Brian brought up (and to me is CRITICAL) is how well each link in the control chain is integrated : To quote Brian : "I find most problems are installation related, attention to detail during the build cuts down on the frustration after the build." A killer radio won't help bad geometry in the boat, at least in channel 1.

Two reasons why I have no dog in this fight :

#1 - As an example of why a quicker radio won't do me any good : To exemplify my typical focus/reaction time, at the 2008 Nat's in Minden with Darin pitting for me, at the start of a P-Mono heat I just drove straight off the course and into the safety net at the end of turn 1 pretty much forgetting to turn.

#2 - Two years ago, without the financial resources to outfit seven class entries with $89.95 Rx's I sold two of them from my Futaba, bought THAT RADIO (you know which one) and seven Rx's, a lipo Tx pack and had enough $$ left over to feed my cheeseburger addiction. At the SAWS I can rest my radio on my belly and run my boat to the far end of the course so far as to not tell which direction the boats pointing all the while enduring the semi-benevolent skepticism of the high-dollar radio boys who stand on the picnic bench or run up and down the bank, radio held high overhead as if they're flying some kind of invisible kite.

I know, I know. I'll shut up

[Cooper]

Some good info tony, well said in my opinion. The only thing I'm really interested in any radio is some sort of fail safe (if signal or something lost that it wouldn't go into full throttle. ) and range for long passes for saw. I think all of them have end point adjust, trim, and a soft cushy wheel. And I do like a radio with more than ten model memory. Hopefully I get my cat together tomorrow and put the $6 rx in to see if it has more range.
I know not all is created equal but I'm a rather simple fellow but if a pricey tx system performs then I justify the expense but if not then I surely can use the money saved towards another build.

[properchopper]

My cheeseburger-friendly (CF) radio has a fail-safe that shuts down the throttle channel when signal is lost. The only time I had a runaway was with my Futaba when the co-axial antenna broke inside the antenna tube/mast and wasn't visible where it broke.

The CF radio can be flashed to extend model memory. Tons of info on RCU.

BTW I ONLY use internal antennas with the CF radio.

Some good info tony, well said in my opinion. The only thing I'm really interested in any radio is some sort of fail safe (if signal or something lost that it wouldn't go into full throttle. ) and range for long passes for saw. I think all of them have end point adjust, trim, and a soft cushy wheel. And I do like a radio with more than ten model memory. Hopefully I get my cat together tomorrow and put the $6 rx in to see if it has more range.
I know not all is created equal but I'm a rather simple fellow but if a pricey tx system performs then I justify the expense but if not then I surely can use the money saved towards another build.

[Cooper]

Flysky?

[properchopper]

Flysky?