Quick charge?

[RHurley]

I am new to RC in general so im sure this is a noob question but here goes.

I bought 2 Turningy 5000mAh 4S 20C lipos and the imax B6AC charger from this site. I charged them up for the first time last night and it took around an hour per battery @2.5 amp..

The question is how mcuh higher can I safely go to speed up the charge rate? the charger has a quick charge option but I have no idea if thats something I can use with these batteries.

Any help would be GREAT!

Thanks

[JimClark]

I like 1C which would be 5 amps

[lenny]

You charged them at 2.5 amps for a 5000mah lipo,
That is half there C rate.
1C is 5000Mah and that = 5 amp.
Just like 4500mah would = 4.5 amps for charging.
1C is a good safe charge rate,
In less that info on the cell say they can handle more than 1C.
Fast charge,
I have the same thing on my charger but do not used it.

[bob_t]

On my charger, if I use "fast charge" mode, it will not balance the cells. I use the "balance charge" mode at a little less than 1C. At the price for decent Lipos, I want to keep my batteries happy (balanced !!) and give them a good, long life, even if it takes a little longer to charge them.

[siberianhusky]

I don't balance charge ever at the pond, only before going out then I do balance charge up from storage voltage.
Good quality packs don't need it, I check the voltage of individual cells before charging and the always have .02 or less of a volt difference after a run, then just charge them at about 1.5c no balance, then check them before running and they are always very close, at least as close as they show after balancing.
I wouldn't suggest this for budget packs like Turnigy, Hayin, Gens Ace etc. The cells are not matched well enough from the factory.
To be honest I know for a fact that the DVM I have is more accurate than the voltmeter in my chinese charger, a couple times I've checked the voltages at the balance plug and compared it to the reading on the charger, so I figure anything under .03 difference in voltage is probably as close as my charger could do as thats the difference between my DVM and charger. And the difference is not the same from cell to cell!
Combine that with the fact that they instantly balanced as soon as they are connected to the esc anyway so a couple hundredths is nothing.
This obviously all falls apart if the cells are not matched very well to begin with. Now that I know more my next charger will have an internal battery resistance feature.

[madmikepags]

I have safely charged 5000mah packs at 20+ amps, but would not reccomend it as a regular routine, also my packs are all of the highest quality, hyperion, TP, Dinogy, and I use only FMA chargers that balance, show internal resistance and more safety features than u actually want or need. I would not reccomend high power charging w/out balancing either. I typically charge at 1.5-2c, any lower and it would take too much time to charge all my packs for a day of racing. I would not reccomend charging those turnigy 20C packs you have at over 1C (5 amps)

[siberianhusky]

Ya, my next charger is going to be a PL8, I was sold on FMA after using a Cellpro4s of my buddies a couple of times.
The heli guys swear by them, the boat guys seem to lean towards hyperion. Both top quality units.

[RHurley]

Thanks very much for the info everyone. Im having my first run with it in about an hour and Ill try charging at 5amps when they run out. im hoping I get a ball park of 10 minutes of run time with two 5000Mah. im using the motor the Genesis comes stock with

[RHurley]

OK... Ran the boat today LOVE IT... had an issue of really short battery life.. while recharging them I noticed the charger would not charge them at 5amps even though I set it at 5. The most it would do was 3, and it shut off saying it was full after putting 2390mAh into the 5000mAh battery. so it would seem ill need around 2 hours of charging per battery.

[JimClark]

what is your charger? A 50 Watt Charger?

[lenny]

How long was your short run time ?
And what hull, esc, motor, prop is in the boat setup that you have ?
The esc low volt may be set to high.
And what are the temps on the cell, esc, motor, after a 1 to 2 minute run at full throttle ?
Have any picture of the boat and setup ?

OK... Ran the boat today LOVE IT... had an issue of really short battery life.. while recharging them I noticed the charger would not charge them at 5amps even though I set it at 5. The most it would do was 3, and it shut off saying it was full after putting 2390mAh into the 5000mAh battery. so it would seem ill need around 2 hours of charging per battery.

[RHurley]

2.jpgtemps were hardly warm at all.run time was around 5 minutes the first time, pretty sure both batteries had only half charge instead of full though. im running two Turningy 4s 20c 5000mAh set up so i have 10k. motor is 36-74Size 2075kv Watercooled Brushless Inrunner from hobbyking. ESC/BEC is 200A watercooled skywing. octura 440 prop. imax B6AC charger says 50W max. just goin for long run times. not super worried about insane speed... yet.

[JimClark]

it is your charger that will not let that large of a batt to charge at 1c want faster times then you need a 200 watt charger and a big powersupply

[TristanJones]

You should be getting 10mins easy with those packs, when you get more go for a higher C rating, 50+ is good. I had the same setup and clocked it at 70kmh with GPS.

[RHurley]

so this charger isnt going to charge the batterys to full without me charging each one twice basically, not mater how slow I let them charge? wish I had known that before I ordered it. seeign as how this is my first EVERYTHING I am already at max budget for now. Guess ill just keep an eye out for a bigger charger and start saving up again

[lenny]

No,
Charger is just slow and will only put out low amps and take longer to charge the packs to full.
5 minutes of run time is not to bad on the 4s 5000mah packs,
If you take 1500mah as a low volt safe zone for each of the 5000mah packs,
Than that leaves you with 7000mah of run time.
If your pack are pretty new they may need to be cycled a few times,
And you may see a little longer run times once they brake in some.

[RHurley]

Ive just read that if I use a power supply instead of the wall plug that came with the charger I should be able to charge at the 5amps it can do. that will help with the time some. Im still trying to find a way to set it so it knows how many mAh each one can hold. for run time I was thinking with running both at once I should be around 10 minutes of run time. plus I dont just stay in the throttle the whole time, I like to turn alot and enjoy more then just full blast lines back and forth

[lenny]

Yes, A power supply is the way to go.
I am using a turingy accucell 8150 150w charger, http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...r_Charger.html
And a 47amp power supply,
This is what I bought for more power if I need it to run more than one charger at a time.
Hears a link.http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11400...E:L:OC:US:1123
Some people make their own PS from a old pc and mod it some.
Do a search on hear for good PS and good cheap charger.

[785boats]

A larger power supply for that 50W charger won't charge the 4s packs at the full 5A.
The charger is limited to 50W so the most it will charge a 4s pack is around 3 Amps. It will charge a 2s pack at the full 5 Amps though.

it shut off saying it was full after putting 2390mAh into the 5000mAh battery. so it would seem ill need around 2 hours of charging per battery.

No. You don't need to charge for two hours. The charger put back 2390mah into the pack. That was all you used on your run. Just under half the capacity.

I agree with Lenny. The LVC may be set too high. The default is 3.4V I think. Drop it down to 3.2V & you will get to use more Mah out of your packs before the voltage dips to the LVC.
Take it for another run. Time it & check all the temps. Then see how many Mah the charger puts back into the packs. Around 3800 would be Ideal. This shows that you left a bit over 20% in the pack which is what you want.

[RHurley]

Thanks for the answers guys, as soon as I get a chance to hit the puddle again ill be sure to let you know how it all works out.

[rotarypower101]

For charge rate 1C seems to be the adhered to standard ,correct?

What about packs that are rated to 5C for charging, what detrimental effects are incurred if charged at these rates, and or approaching these rates over the standard 1C?

What conditions would need to be met to safely charge at these rates?

Is this rating a ultimate rating rather than a sustainable recommendation?

If it can handle 5C, what would be a safe quick charge rate?

Any recommendations from those that charge these dinogy packs, with empirical recommendations?



My 2 current chargers only say they will do 7A max.

So that is like 1-2/5C rate on a 5000mah?

And typically do not charge at even 1C from what I have determined.
Typically it will be around 3A for a 6000mah pack, so ~1/2C...

Is there a charger out there that will charge at a increased C rating to look at?

[NativePaul]

Combine that with the fact that they instantly balanced as soon as they are connected to the esc anyway so a couple hundredths is nothing.

That is clever, what ESCs do you use?

[hydro_pyro]

"Quick charge" usually just skips the low-current "topping off" process that tends to comprise the last 20 minutes of the charge and last couple hundred mAh of capacity.

A high-current laptop power supply (6 to 8 amps) can be found on Ebay for under $20 shipped, from China. Search Ebay for "12V 6A power supply."

[madmikepags]

Like I said before I have charged Dinogy,TP Hyperion and now even Turnigy Nanotec batteris at upwards of 20 amps (4C) without any problem. That being said I normally charge at 9 amps, and that doesnt matter if im charging 3300's 4000's 5000's or 6000's. so anywhere between 1.5-3C. most chargers wont charge at 25-30amps that the 5C rate 5-6000's can handle but my Cellpro PL8's can and I have charged at 25amps in an emergency situation (5000mah pack charged fronm 25% to 100% in less than 10 minutes!!!!) but I don't recommend this as a regular practice. All of the Cellpro chargers are fantastic The PL6 PL8 and the 10XP all can charge at 15+ amps.the 10XP can charge 2 packs at a time 1-5 cell or one 6 cell. The PL6 and PL8 can charge up to 6 or 8 cell packs, heres the kicker theyeach can charge up to 9 packs at a time in parallel. The downfall of this is that you need a separate parallel balance board and seperate input wires for each pack so charging that many at once makes for a mess of wires. charging 4 packs is not that bad. Check out their website: fmadirect.com they have a lot of great innovations in charging. I've been using these chargers for 5 years now and will not switch, they are very easy to use only 2 buttons no crazy menus no setting your cell count ar capacity, just pick the Chemistry and charge rate it does all the rest!!! I really cant say enuf about these chargers!!!

[Cooper]

Yea I agree, I think it's the old school thought of charging at 1c. I regularly charge hk packs at 20 amps and have been on the same packs for two years. Average of 10-15 charges a weekend for the summer so they have been lasting. It's not the amperage going back into the battery that's the problem. The over draw and over charging of lipos is the killer. Think of it this way, if a 5000mah 5amp battery with 50c discharge can handle 250 amps of discharge the 1c of 5 amps seems pretty small of charge current. (Not mentioning the overinflated numbers of all lipos) and I too don't always balance charge. If you have to balance a pack every time then it's not that great of a pack and taking a chance with it. (Chances are of nothing happening but the potential is there) agggg, sorry I just get upset when it comes to lipos!!! They are all manufactured from only a handful of manufactures and just rebranded. Hard to find the info but its out there, surprising to find out my expensive packs were the exact same at my cheep economy packs!!!

[madmikepags]

Actually there are several manufactureres both in Korea and China and they vary considerably in their QC. The Korean cells were actually considered the best a couple of years ago but I'm not sure about that today. I have disassembled many packs from many different brands and never have I found an Identical cell to Enerland Hyperion TP or Dinogy and these are the most expensive brands. I Remember seeing videos on youtube that show different manufacturers processes and they all look very complex, any small variance in temps humidity and cleanliness of the assembly room can cause poor cells. Even with the old technology NiCd and NiMh you would look for certain date codes on our cells because at different times of the year the cell production was better than other times??? I can't remember if this was seasonally or not.

[Cooper]

Who is selling kokam cells?

[Cooper]

And is Wanxiang marketing any premade lipo cells? Or who is the new distributor/brand? Just forgot about them. I thought 123 enerland was out from 2011. ?

[madmikepags]

I still see enerland LiPo batteries for sale but they might be old stock? A123 are still made from what I know? but what do I know???

[rotarypower101]

Like I said before I have charged Dinogy,TP Hyperion and now even Turnigy Nanotec batteris at upwards of 20 amps (4C) without any problem. That being said I normally charge at 9 amps, and that doesnt matter if im charging 3300's 4000's 5000's or 6000's. so anywhere between 1.5-3C. most chargers wont charge at 25-30amps that the 5C rate 5-6000's can handle but my Cellpro PL8's can and I have charged at 25amps in an emergency situation (5000mah pack charged fronm 25% to 100% in less than 10 minutes!!!!) but I don't recommend this as a regular practice. All of the Cellpro chargers are fantastic The PL6 PL8 and the 10XP all can charge at 15+ amps.the 10XP can charge 2 packs at a time 1-5 cell or one 6 cell. The PL6 and PL8 can charge up to 6 or 8 cell packs, heres the kicker theyeach can charge up to 9 packs at a time in parallel. The downfall of this is that you need a separate parallel balance board and seperate input wires for each pack so charging that many at once makes for a mess of wires. charging 4 packs is not that bad. Check out their website: fmadirect.com they have a lot of great innovations in charging. I've been using these chargers for 5 years now and will not switch, they are very easy to use only 2 buttons no crazy menus no setting your cell count ar capacity, just pick the Chemistry and charge rate it does all the rest!!! I really cant say enuf about these chargers!!!

Great post!
Thank you

I am sure most is going to be hearsay, but on the topic of longevity and safety, is it OK to charge at a 5C rating?
Are there any detrimental effects?


The reason I ask, is that I would like to be able to minimize equipment needed on trips away from power outlets, and would like to house a charger and a few packs in a pelican case.

I would like to use the onboard starting batteries from a watercraft to charge a pack while sitting on the beach, drive while a set charges, and alternate between sets of packs.

While it would be nice to have a never ending loop of packs, I really just want to safely minimize my down time between 2 sets of packs.

I have seen the PLx chargers seem to be very popular, I will look more closely at them.