Castle Hydra Firmware

[Ub Hauled]

I think it's not worth arguing over personal preferences, why would you try to convince the next guy to like the same stuff you like... next thing you know he likes your girlfriend as well, LOL

[TRUCKPULL]

Gentlemen...the following is what Castle's engineering department has found regarding the Hydra software versions. We spent quite a bit of time to test this.

"Timing on version 1.03 does not operate as intended. Normal timing is approximately 16 degrees. I would consider this too high for optimum performance on most motors. If the timing was changed via Castle Link the result would be as follows:

Low: 16.25 degrees
Normal: 16.25 degrees
Race: 10.75 degrees
Extreme: 16.25 degrees

If the timing was changed via stick programming and power was not removed directly after Motor Timing was set (in other words the user continued to set another setting such as Cutoff Voltage), then the timing was always set to 16.25 degrees.

If the user unplugged the unit directly after Motor Timing was set, then the user would get the same timing values as Castle Link would set. (16.25,16.25,10.75,16.25)

This obviously was not correct and was fixed in version 1.04. In version 1.04 the timing values are consistent if programmed via Castle Link or stick programming. The values are as follows:

Low: 4.75 degrees
Norm: 9 degrees
High: 12.75 degrees
Highest: 16.25 degrees

I also tested the units on the bench to determine if there were any other issues that may have resulted in excess heat. I ran a controller to steady state temperature using the version 1.03 firmware on default timing. Then repeated the test with version 1.04. As expected, the timing was different between the two. Also, the temperature and current measurements were consistent with timing.

The test running 1.03 firmware had a current draw of approximately 3 amps higher than 1.04. The steady state temperature of the 1.03 firmware test was approximately 3-4 degrees higher (as a result of the increased current).

There are two known 'issues' with the Hydra software.

Known issue 1: When updating from version 1.03 to 1.04 you MUST recalibrate. Failure to do so will cause the controller to not reach FULL THROTTLE (as indicated by the LED not going to a steady ON).

Known issue 2: When stick programming voltage cutoff on either version 1.03 or 1.04 the programming options are 4, 5, 6, 7.2, 9, 12. However, in the instructions, they are listed as 4,5,6,9,12 (7.2 was removed when the instructions were written for the Hydra line).

The customers who are using v1.04, and feel it has caused their boats to slow down and temps to increase are probably split into two camps.

1) Those who forgot to recalibrate their unit after updating. These guys would likely see a very dramatic decrease in speed as a result of not reaching full throttle. They also would probably see an increase in temperature because they were consistently running at 90% throttle.

2) Those who calibrated their unit and noticed a decrease in top end. This was probably accompanied by lower ESC and motor temperatures. This was caused by the timing being 'fixed'. You can see the numbers above, and if the user sets their timing to 'Highest' on v1.04, the unit should run exactly as it did using the v1.03 firmware."

Sorry it took so long to get this data guys...we needed to make sure the results were 100% correct.

Joe would this apply to the CC125 also

Version 1.03
Low: 16.25 degrees
Normal: 16.25 degrees
Race: 10.75 degrees
Extreme: 16.25 degrees

Version 1.04
Low: 4.75 degrees
Norm: 9 degrees
High: 12.75 degrees
Highest: 16.25 degrees

Also I am using Castle link 3.05 right now.
Will the above timming setings change for V 1.03 and V 1.04 with the Castle link 3.12 ??

Larry

[Heath M]

Larry timing values change if you download castle link 3.12.
We need to find out why and what difference they'll make?

Heath

[TRUCKPULL]

Joe

I should have also asked if your tests were done with Castle Link 3.05 or 3.12 ??

Larry

[detox]

Going by Castles NEW chart I bet most everyone was outside the limits:

http://www.castlecreations.com/suppo..._boat_apps.pdf

Castle Hydra 120, Neu 1515 1y, 4s1p 4900mah, x442...ESC up in flames after 10 seconds while running in my 27" Rigger Insanity. I will use Hydra 240 with atleast 9800mah next time.

[G Doggett]

What an absolute cock-up by Castle.
So much for their R and D Dept. This should be rectified by a full recall of faulty product.
I wonder how many motors and ESCs have been destroyed in spite of careful owners setting their ESCs to the conservative ' low or normal ' position ?
This on top of the fiasco where the original fine print stated that there was no warranty if used with 4 or more lipos.
I'm afraid I now have very little confidence in Castle and will in future be buying ESCs from Europe or Asia.
I must however thank Joe Ford who appears to have been the only person at Castle to be interested in following up and getting to the bottom of this manufacturing/programming fault.
Graham.

[Punisher 67]

J.A.F.O.........................

Just a flippen Observer......................................

Great topic and good info

[Ub Hauled]

Peter, you must weigh a ton after eating all that popcorn! You are THE observer on forums... "the eye"... uncle Sam...
LOL

Ok, I downloaded software version 3.12 and will use firmware 1.04 with custom settings for timing.. that's right, you can now
use any timing (increments of 1.0) you can desire. Since I'll be chugging along a Miss Vegas with a 1521/1D, I though that
either zero or 1 as my timing should be appropriate. I wonder if since you setting the numbers up timing will be the number you typed in.

Cross your fingers, off to the lake...

[Punisher 67]

Hello Jan

I have to keep my mouth shut most times I have a habit of saying a little to much and them pulling the shoe back out of my mouth later

Good content here definitely stuff that should be addressed

[egneg]

My question is this - why do they recommend a 120a to replace a stock 45a on the sv and the bj - is it because their current esc's are WAY over rated?

[Boatman]

My question is this - why do they recommend a 120a to replace a stock 45a on the sv and the bj - is it because their current esc's are WAY over rated?

I wish CC would chime in here a little more while their product is being questioned. I have seen blackjack esc handle three times what it should purposely just to try and blow it. I would never do this with a hydra for cost reasons and I know it would blow. I feel we may be jumping the gun a bit on downing them for trying. Until the last decade Im sure most boats used brushed motors and heli,plane, were only using brushless technology which are far easier on esc's themselves. They (hopefully) will get it right but trial and error will be eminent until all bugs are worked out. Thats why Joe should be standing by for a bit after laying down that confusing info.

[raptor347]

The hydra 120 is the smallest marine esc they make.

[Ub Hauled]

Ok guys... I am back from the pond.
I ran my MV, 4s1p Elite 5000 35C, Hydra 240LV, NEU 1521/1D with an M447 prop.
I ran pretty much the whole packs and I have to say that there was NO OVERHEATING.
Here is what my Castle Link read:

13.2 Cutoff
Timing = 1
Start up = Low
the curves were default (straight)

the only thing was that I could not measure temps with my "gun" since I was bringing the boat back and lost a prop/shaft... so I jumped on the rescue boat and paddled out as quickly as I could (the MV was 20yards out) opened the hatch right there to check it manually... if I had to guess, temps were in the 90's at best... everything was barely warm after a couple of minutes run.
In conclusion, I think if you install the new Software vr 3.12 and run 1.04 (after recalibrating), set timing to 1 (I used "Custom" then clicked all the way down to "1") on a "D" wind, things should be fine. I will try using a "Y" wind some other time since I had no more time today.

[tylerm]

What an absolute cock-up by Castle.
So much for their R and D Dept. This should be rectified by a full recall of faulty product.
I wonder how many motors and ESCs have been destroyed in spite of careful owners setting their ESCs to the conservative ' low or normal ' position ?
This on top of the fiasco where the original fine print stated that there was no warranty if used with 4 or more lipos.
I'm afraid I now have very little confidence in Castle and will in future be buying ESCs from Europe or Asia.
I must however thank Joe Ford who appears to have been the only person at Castle to be interested in following up and getting to the bottom of this manufacturing/programming fault.
Graham.

Like i said on sunday to you Graham i'm sort of thinking the same thing. i won't buy another CC ESC, although i'm quite happy with my hydra 240 at this point
I think ima get an etti cap bank and add a third water cooled cooling plate just to do all i can for it.
Maybe a castle link as well
Tyler.

[andym]

Tyler I for one would like to see a Etti cap bank on a CC esc. I think they are the week link and a bank like that can only help. Please give it a go and report on the cap temps without the bank and with the bank. Go on take one for the team mate, it wont hurt a bit!!

[Flying Scotsman]

Douggie is getting conufused again!! Software V3.12 is for the Mamba Monster controller. V3.05 was the latest for the Hydra series which included firmware V1.4 update. Are there problems in using the Mamba sotware with Hydra controllers,.

Joe Ford, PLEASE ADVISE.

Douggie

[Darin Jordan]

Douggie is getting conufused again!! Software V3.12 is for the Mamba Monster controller. V3.05 was the latest for the Hydra series which included firmware V1.4 update. Are there problems in using the Mamba sotware with Hydra controllers,.

Joe Ford, PLEASE ADVISE.

Douggie

Douggie,

The Castle link software you download from CC is for ALL of their controllers... It "knows" which controller you hook to it and gives you the appropriate options for that controller...

I downloaded V3.12 this weekend and like the additional detail it provides. Just have to sit down and reprogram all my ESCs now.

[Flying Scotsman]

Darin, thanks for that info. I am anal at installing new software. I have Microsoft to thank for that fear.
Thanks,

Douggie

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, thanks for that info. I am anal at installing new software. I have Microsoft to thank for that fear.
Thanks,

Douggie

No problem... Castle seems to have their software install utility working great. It uninstalls any previous versions and installs the new version and it's all pretty much transparent to the use... Just let it do it's thing and it seems to work great.

[Ub Hauled]

Not only does it install and unistall the software but if for some reason the install is not successful it rolls-back all the info to leave it as it was prior to the install. I had that happen to me, since I have Vista on the PC I use for the Castle link I had to jump to a couple of hoops to get it going... nothing too bad, just extra hoops.

[Darin Jordan]

since I have Vista on the PC I use for the Castle link I had to jump to a couple of hoops to get it going... nothing too bad, just extra hoops.

I'd be interested in more details on this, since I'm about to give my wife a new Dell Laptop with Vista on it for her Birthday... I'll, of course, need to borrow it for important events like testing at the lake, so I'll need to install the Link on it...

[Ub Hauled]

I'd be interested in more details on this, since I'm about to give my wife a new Dell Laptop with Vista on it for her Birthday... I'll, of course, need to borrow it for important events like testing at the lake, so I'll need to install the Link on it...

Darin I know what you do for a living so this should be a piece O' cake for you. It's easy stuff for anyone though...
the installer told me that there was a file that could not be used so the whole things failed, it rolled me back to the original state. I tried first to install it as a "Win Pro Service Pack 2" and it still would not go, then I tried to "run it as an admin" and
that did the trick. Easy, eh!?
BTW, I have a Dell as well... fairly new, we got it earlier this year for my wife.

[Punisher 67]

I have 3 dells including the little 9 inch for my mill programing and eagletree at the pond thats in transit right now , by far most dependable machines I have ever used..................

[Ub Hauled]

I agree Peter, the next best thing you can have, BESIDES A MAC, is a Dell, great support dept.

[Flying Scotsman]

I purchase a new Dell to replace an old Delll about 4 months ago. Nothing but problems. They stepped up to the plate and replaced the unit...no problems since. I run XP with Service Pack 3. I will not touch VISTA after talking to some IT guys. Plus much of my existing software would not operate with Vista
Darin, I reconfigured one of my CC ESCs Hydra 120 and will test with an Eagle Micro Logger, as soon as it warms up.
N.B. I had to reinstall the software twice before the ESC would re-calibrate correctly and with a steady LED on full throttle
P.S. Jan my settings are the same except for custom timing and cutoff voltage. I programmed 3 for timing and 16.5 cutoff(5S)

Douggie

[TRUCKPULL]

Now here is the big question
A lot of us ran V 1.03 software because a lot of people said that V1.04 made things hot.
We now find out that with V1.03 timing settings were actually
Low – 16.25 degrees
Normal – 16.25 degrees
Race – 10.75 degrees
Extreme – 16.25 degrees

If you used the V1.04 timing settings were.

Low – 4.75 degrees
Normal – 9 degrees
Race – 12.75 degrees
Extreme – 16.25 degrees

For NEU motors we were told to use LOW with “D” winds and Normal with
“Y” winds

Now with the V3.12 castle link, do we still have a chouse between V1.03 and V1.04??
What are the timing settings in DEGREES for racing with the NEU “D” and “Y” winds??
My setups before were as we see now 16.26 degrees for both “D” and “Y” winds.

Larry

[Flying Scotsman]

Larry, for the Hydra 120. I was given the choice of V1.3 or 4. The HV series may not allow this???

Douggie

[Ub Hauled]

Larry I believe you get to chose between "Firmware 1.03 or 1.04",
since you know that your motors were running 16.26 degrees, now all you'd have to do
is chose the same settings on the new Software version since the Firmwares are the same.
I think people are getting a bit confused as far as Software version and Firmware version....

The "Software" is the application one has to open to see all the options and change them...
The "Firmware" is what is inside the chips that does all the math for you to be able apply these options.
If someone has a better explanation please go right ahead...

So, when one is saying Software remember that that is the Interface and when someone says Firmware, remember it's invisible.
The problem that is occurring right now is that the selections showing on the Interface are not corresponding to what the Firmware is telling the ESC to do...
I hope that I could help someone with this.

Douggie, I believe you are right, the Hydra HV series does not support Firmware version 1.03

[Joe Ford]

Geez guys...I was at a show with no internet connection. I'm not leaving you hanging, I'm not running away, not going to ignore you...I was busy. I'm here now, ask away.

Darin...thank you for answering some questions while I was gone...it is appreciated. :)

I will talk with the engineers about the high timing voiding warranty situation. We'll see what they say...not my decision.

Castle is very sorry for any frustration this debacle may have caused any of you. We knew some people would be upset but chose to just put it out there. We could have just fixed it, released 1.05/06, and not said another word. But that's not the way we do business...if we mess up we admit to it. So our apologies gents.

[TRUCKPULL]

Thank You JOE
Castle is great, not many companies would give us this much information.

I downloaded the New Castle Link V3.12
Every thing is good, we can still switch between V1.03 and V1.04

I talked to Steve at NEU motors, we all know that he said before that the
"D" winds should be set to LOW
"Y" winds set to Normal

Now with V1.04 we can set the degrees to any thing we want.

Steve said to set the "D" winds at 0 to 4.75 degrees with V1.04
The 16.25 degrees that we had before with the V1.03 would not efect the motor, seeing that they ("D" winds) don't respond to timing changes.

The "Y" winds should be set at 9 to 15 degrees with V1.04

Larry