17" Wood rigger questions, 1010 22T Lehner

[ray schrauwen]

Thats about it really.

I have what I think is a 17" laser cut matrix rigger kit. I got it from Taylor Shaw (aka Eyecandyboats) some years ago and I also have a Lehner 1010 motor 22mm x 27mm that is 22T 5455Kv switchable to 3155Kv Y wind if I choose.

Will this motor work well in this rigger? what do you suggest for power & esc?? Prop?

I've got tons of goodies to use, other motors too but, if the Lehner can push it to really fun speeds and good run time 4min+ I'd be happy.

Any suggestions are appreciated since I'm not good with micros. I gave them up a while ago.

No rush, it's a winter build.

Thanks!

[ray schrauwen]

No takers on this? I'll just have to build it and see I guess.

[eric_laermans]

Hi Ray,
I just tune in to OSE and read your message... My answer... I build these small riggers too and a 17'' rigger fits in the mini-hydro class (45cm hull incl floaters). There are several setups used for these mini-hydro riggers:
- 2221-6 Hyperion or Scorpion outrunner (3595kV) and it is used on 2s with relatively large prop (36mm)
- 2221-8 Hyperion or Scorpion outrunner (4400kV), also on 2s with smaller prop
- 1515 (relatively small) or 1520 (I would prefer).

The Lehner is too small and comes to better use in smaller (lighter) rigger or aeroplane.

[ray schrauwen]

Hi Eric,

Thank you for coming to the motors rescue, haha.

O.k. then I will save this little guy for my Venom Rc motorcycle which it does fit.

I do have a pair of similar motors to the Scopion. They are Suppo version sort of copied Scorpion. A little less quality but, still enough power I believe. i bought them from HobbyKing they are for Heli.

4400kv:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...er_4400KV.html

This should be good for now.

Thank you very much for the advice.

What hardware do you suggest? I have some chinese stuff anf I think an Etti rudder. For this size rigger, I don't know how long of a rudder to use??

I have these in my spare box:

[ray schrauwen]

I like the first one, the second one is 51mm long but very small setback.

[ray schrauwen]

How far forward do you mount your motors? Knowing this would simplify my cg placement since my motors is very close to yours.

[martin]

Ray that HK 4400kv is an ideal little motor to use in a 17" rigger, that is the same motor that Zippkits sell for their 17" Mini Sprint rigger.

[ray schrauwen]

Thank you. What do you think of the T60 aka HW60 esc? 32grams, nice quality. 2200mah?

I'll look at zip kits for some reference. I've built 2 riggers that are since long gone. Miss the blizzard ultra kit.

Anyway, that was back in the Nimh days and those are gone now.

[ray schrauwen]

Just watched as vid of the mini sprint, WHOA, thats fast! I'll build this first and see how it does but, one of those would be outrageous! Thats fast!

[martin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOUlQEGC8lg
This is my Zippkits Mini Sprint with a $12 3800kv on 3s & 60a esc.

[ray schrauwen]

Is that a Mystery esc aka suppo?

[martin]

Its one of the many cheapo esc that are all over Ebay in varying sizes, its a watercooled one. i dont believe its a Mystery one though but the motor i used was a Mystery 2836 - 3800kv.

[martin]

The second vid on Zippkits site is Jimbob boat who is on this forum sometimes, i believe he used a 380 size watercooled inrunner 4300kv on 3s.

[Meniscus]

Ray, that ESC will be fine. I've used the old Seaking 35A and 60A ones which work well. You don't need that much length in the rudder, you'll be fine with smaller. I've setup the motors either way: either all the way forward for use with a wire drive, or directly behind the battery. With riggers of this size, CG seems to be of lessor concern. They are subject to rougher running conditions due to the size, so be sure your stuffing tube is secure. We even support the tube on the inside with a small piece of angle.

On props, there's a variety you can use. For the smaller size, I'd stick with a x632, Y535 or go extreme if you want to and watch the temps. When I say go extreme, we cut down V935/3 to 31 and 32mm. We even use that setup on our Renegade riggers.

On motors, one of the best combinations I've used is a Scorpion HKII-2208-24 at 3590kv running on 3s. You probably don't want to go that extreme, but if you do, it works great. What's really nice about the Scorpions is that they can handle getting hotter than the other outrunners without demagnetization and loss of power. However, you'll be limited to 2 minute runs. I use a Flightpower EonX-Lite 1300mah 25/40C. They're not the best batteries anymore since they're no longer Enerland, but it seems to hold out OK. If you have the space, the 2100 to 2200mah range is fine, but you may find that the weight savings will reduce the load and heat generated in the system.

Feel free to send me a PM and I'll give you my cell. We can talk about setups in more detail. I still have a Matrix Ultra and may have a kit around I could trace if you felt so inclined.

Anyway, hope this helps.

[martin]

On my rudder i have the blade 1.5" below the bottom of the strut with 3/4" wide blade & 7/8" from the tub to the front of the blade.

[ray schrauwen]

Thanks Meniscus & Martin. Good stuff to know. I'll keep an eye out for one of those Scorpions new or used at a good price.

My Kit looks similar to the green rigger in your changing avatar.

I'll post up some picks soon. Might start gluing tonight.

[Meniscus]

Cool! Unfortunately, the green one in my Avatar is not quite that color. I modified slightly in Photoshop to be a little more bright which was my original intent. You know how that goes, nothing dries exactly as you might imagine, LOL!!!

If you have any way to weigh all the parts minus electronics, that would be helpful. Are the sponson booms already drilled? If not, let's talk over the phone about the AOA (Angle of Attack). When you go to the smaller models, especially riggers, we find they benefit from a few different approaches that don't apply to the larger models. I can also help you with starting depth for the strut. I also have a prop or two you could borrow to get you going after you do the shakedown runs. The biggest thing to remember about these small guys is to not get discouraged and take your time. It is often painful to do anything to include screws, gluing, epoxy, etc. for the smaller scale. If you get frustrated, you'll end up not being happy with the result.

[larryrose11]

Meniscus, eric_laermans,
I dont want to hijack this thread from ray schrauwen, Byt I could use you help with a smallish rigger I want to build. I was going to base the geometery upon the Mini Sprint, paticularly the sponson geometery. I was going to make a smaller version of the BBY Liftmaster. Center tub of about 19" long, probally about 21" total. Carbon fiber / vaccume bag construction, as light weight as I can make it, perhaps even some foam core on parts of the tub. I will be doing it in CAD, and CNC out the form in wood as a plug.
Could either of you advise me on this project in the design stage?

[Meniscus]

Larry, I recommend you start a new thread. In the meantime, if you have the resources to do the CAD and extrusion from foam, have at it! Remember that since these small riggers don't often exceed 60mph, of course there are exceptions, then the tub design is of lessor concern. What I'm saying is, as long as it gets up on plane and doesn't have a huge wind catch to cause it to blow over, you could run a block as a tub. Just remember to run more AOA than you would in a larger rigger and also note my input above regarding a piece of angle to help secure the stuffing tube inside the hull. I imagine that one of the reasons why you are looking at the liftmaster tub is the space and ability to run the lipos side by side.

Anyway, I'll watch for your new thread and will be happy to go into full discussions there. Just remember not to overcomplicate things and above all else, have fun!

[ray schrauwen]

Interesting.

My wood kit has 6mm sponson boom holes predrilled so, I could change angle of attack if I were to mod the boom holes but, maybe I'll start stock?? It doesn't have to be the fastest but, running like a train on tracks as in some of the vids I've seen looks really cool.

[Meniscus]

I'd start stock. If you need more angle, you can always raise the strut. One word of caution though, make sure before you make a final decision on the booms, that you have enough room or height for your battery.

[ray schrauwen]

A closer look shows me i have a sponson AOA choice in this kit.

The only problem I see is space .

As you can see there is little to be had in a tub 1.53" tall. I can make a hump canopy but, the ARC 130 I have could slip in with ease. It is a very tough built 4 pole motor. The wire is silly thick, I don't know how they wind these little critters compared to the 30G wire I see in other 130 size motors.

The pack is 2200mAH tURNIGY 20c 3s. Might need to run 1700-1800packs instead...?

First to decide on sponson angle


Ooops pics would be nice huh?? lol..

[ray schrauwen]

choices....

[Meniscus]

That certainly looks like a lot of battery for the size comparisons. In the past, we've accommodated by using an airplane canopy or similar and glue to lid to make the hump. It's not pretty, but it gets the job done. There's plenty of other ways to do it as well that are much better looking.

Don't be afraid to relocate the holes to accommodate for components. We do this all the time. Just make sure that the booms won't drag too bad through the water which would cause it to possibly have trouble getting on plane.

Another thought...what's the worst thing that could happen if you don't end up with the AOA you want? Nothing. You can always add ride pads later if you need to.